The case of the racist blackcurrant drink

kildare lad

DelaneyIn wrote: »

If these people see racism everywhere and see white people as oppressors - why do they move continents to live amongst white people in their native homelands?

Makes no sense.

Social welfare

Higgins5473

The twitter accounts and comments from the so called new Irish are very disturbing.

Raconteuse

tuxy wrote: »

Why would you made such assumptions? I believe the only people who would find racism here are ones who actively look for it.
Is there anything to imply the staff considered her stupid?

I'm saying that's what she got from it.

tuxy

Raconteuse wrote: »

I'm saying that's what she got from it.

Don't you see a pattern in her tweets where she continually finds outrage where there is none?

Raconteuse

Don't really know what you're saying, tuxy. Just because I'm explaining how I think she construed it as racist, doesn't mean I think she's definitely right or agree with her usually. I do think the mix-up is a weird one, and one which I don't think people would be so ready to accept in other scenarios. Bit of hostility towards those who have a different outlook on her regarding this specific incident.

Could have been an innocent mistake but it's a strange one according to someone with extensive experience of that work.

But that doesn't mean I don't find her odious otherwise.

Signore Fancy Pants

Higgins5473 wrote: »

The twitter accounts and comments from the so called new Irish are very disturbing.

There's some horrid stuff from both sides. Very disturbing, could get a lot worse too. This could be prove to be very divisive in the future.

tuxy

Raconteuse wrote: »

Don't really know what you're saying, tuxy.

What I'm saying is I can't figure out how the events that transpired were racist. She gives no explanation on why she thinks it was racist and no one on this thread had been even able to put forward a credible theory on how it may have been racially motivated.

tuxy

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

There's some horrid stuff from both sides. Very disturbing, could get a lot worse too. This could be prove to be very divisive in the future.

Exactly, it's a real problem. Inventing terms like "New Irish" only causes more division which is the one thing extremists on both sides want.

tayto lover

tuxy wrote: »

What I'm saying is I can't figure out how the events that transpired were racist. She gives no explanation on why she thinks it was racist and no one on this thread had been even able to put forward a credible theory on how it may have been racially motivated.

She might think or try to imply that she was given the wrong drink on purpose because she was black. That’s pure bull**** as we all know.

tuxy

tayto lover wrote: »

She might think or try to imply that she was given the wrong drink on purpose because she was black. That’s pure bull**** as we all know.

She seems to imply that we should know what is inherently racist about it. I still don't see it.
I've never heard of deliberately mixing up food and drink orders as a tactic to inflict racial injustice.

Higgins5473

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

There's some horrid stuff from both sides. Very disturbing, could get a lot worse too. This could be prove to be very divisive in the future.

Indeed, putting masses amounts of people from a different continent and culture into a region without any sufficient facilities to cater for the native people in the first place let alone a bunch of migrants is always going to end up in lovely peace and harmony.

Racism racism racism, yes, and all because of mismanaged f*ck ups.

Notdeco

tuxy wrote: »

I've just realised something perhaps it was obvious.
In the U.S grape drink is something that is associated with poor black families.
Ribena is the closest thing we have to grape drink, this is why it was racist!
I was really struggling to find the link to racism but I finally got there.

Well good for you, thank you for your commitment.

MMXX

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Indeed, putting masses amounts of people from a different continent and culture into a region without any sufficient facilities to cater for the native people in the first place let alone a bunch of migrants is always going to end up in lovely peace and harmony.

Genuine question, what's the legality of all this immigration? Is free movement not supposed to be between countries of the European Union? What am I missing?

tuxy

MMXX wrote: »

Genuine question, what's the legality of all this immigration? Is free movement not supposed to be between countries of the European Union? What am I missing?

Children born in Ireland before 2005 were granted automatic citizenship and their parents could also legally stay.
That loophole is now closed.
In most cases a job or university is required to come here and they can eventually become citizens if they can retain employment long enough to get visas until they become legal(at least 5 years)
Many of these people fill important gaps in the job market.

Groups that you see in videos such as the Red Cow look old enough to have gained citizenship before 2005.

grogi

lawred2 wrote: »

What was the actual link to racism as she saw it?

The currant was black?

MMXX

tuxy wrote: »

Children born in Ireland before 2005 were granted automatic citizenship and their parents could also legally stay.
That loophole is now closed.
In most cases a job or university is required to come here and they can eventually become citizens if they can retain employment long enough to get visas until they become legal(at least 5 years)
Many of these people fill important gaps in the job market.

Groups that you see in videos such as the Red Cow look old enough to have gained citizenship before 2005.

I see, thank you - I've wondered about this for quite a while, now I know.

gozunda

Beau Bennett wrote:

Thought you can't call blackcurrants blackcurrants anymore.

Heres more blackcurrent drink type racism - Feckin disgracefull... :mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTcrcFtbf5s

Earthhorse

Earthhorse wrote: »

Thanks for your clarifications but the point of view you are taking, which is a sort of at a cosmic, God's view, 10,000 miles up level is not how most people experience life

Sure and most of us do not experience the earth as round yet we are all capable of exceeding the limits of the human condition and learn that it is. You are right - the error you are making is a very very human one to make. But it remains an error all the same. It might not be how we experience life - but events like this serve as useful reminders that while we might not _experience_ it that way we should still _think_ about it that way when we can.

See events like this - or like the analogy I made to people thinking they are psychic - are remarkably common but also varied. If you take the big picture view of the world and statistics you can see that.

But the human natural move is not to do that - but to focus in one one event out of the complete set at a granular level - and then find that event remarkable or bizarre or weird when it is not. I can not remember who said it but it was put very well by a guy once who said "I saw the car registration play AX AB 154 today - man how weird was it I would see that registration at that exact moment?". The point being there was nothing weird or remarkable about it until you focus in on it for no justifiable reason and ascribe weirdness to it yourself.

Which is not itself a bad thing _until_ said human then feels that that event therefore needs an equally remarkable narrative or explanation to parse it. Such as thinking they are psychic or - such as a thread like this one - thinking there must be some ill intent or agenda in play behind it. It is not just that words like "weird" and "bizarre" are badly chosen - it is the "something else must be going on here then" effect those words then tend to lead on to.

Earthhorse wrote: »

On the contrary, people are social animals and prone to share the details of their lives at the drop of a hat.

Some details yes - but most people seem to know which details are worth sharing and frankly sharing minor things like when one thing was ordered and another thing arrived - is not something people generally seem inclined to do. I do not think you are wrong that people share details of their life - I think you are absolutely right. I just think you are leaving out that there is a threshold of the mundane such events usually have to cross before they are shared. And people without that threshold tend not to be the ones who get invited back to parties and coffee shops and bars anyway.

Earthhorse wrote: »

Even your own experience of getting potatoes is one you remembered despite the mundanity of it.

But only because - and this is the important bit you are leaving out - it became relevant to this conversation and I went actively seeking in my memory set for equivalent events and anecdotes to draw on. And even then it did not jump instantly to mind - but on the third or fourth pass through of my memory. Unless this criteria of relevance came into play it is unlikely I would have ever given that event another thought.

Which is entirely my point so I am glad you are facilitating it so well here. My suspicion without knowing the person the OP is about - which I literally do not though others seem to - is that the person already has an agenda through which they parsed the event in a way that no one else would have - and anyone else in the same situation would have been as unlikely to mention or remember the event as I was with the potatoes. I have no interest whatsoever in the event or person in question myself. I am into human psychology in a big way however so I can comment on that aspect of it without caring a jot about the rest even a little. I think how people are parsing this event - and I focused in on you randomly to highlight that but could have chosen any of a few other people - is worthy of commentary in a bigger picture view of how humans often think.

However had I been someone who had worked myself up into a hyper-sensitive sensor for anything and everything that could be construed even remotely as racism against my Irishness - I would have been all over the potato incident in my life as ticking every aspect of my human confirmation bias. And under the rubric of "innocent until proven guilty" and "do not ascribe to malice that which could be caused by incompetence" I will simply away some actual evidence before assuming anything more than that occurred here. I do not - like you - think that many people think they know what happened here. I think that without further evidence people are simply assuming a simple default occams razor style conclusion until given good reason(s) to do otherwise.

weldoninhio

tuxy wrote: »

Exactly, it's a real problem. Inventing terms like "New Irish" only causes more division which is the one thing extremists on both sides want.

But they don’t see themselves as Irish. To qualify that, a lot of my friends moved to Oz (legally) in the last ten/twenty years. A lot now have Aussie citizenship and passports, they aren’t Australian, they are still Irish, their kids (Oz born) consider themselves Irish and tell their school friends that they are Irish. One you get citizenship you don’t automatically forget your roots.

sbsquarepants

tuxy wrote: »

Why would you made such assumptions? I believe the only people who would find racism here are ones who actively look for it.

If you look hard enough for anything, you'll begin to see it everywhere.

Does the good Dr really think that some racist lay in wait to insult her in this most implausibly subtle way? Does she not think (given her razor sharp intellect) the best way to irritate this racist genius would have been to feign ignorance of their meticulous plot.

Imagine how pissed off you'd be if you had engineered a dig so exquisitely subtle that nobody noticed:D

One of the things I've noticed about racists however, is that as a group they tend not to value subtlety all that highly.

tuxy wrote: »

.
Is there anything to imply the staff considered her stupid?

I don't know. I'd say there's growing evidence to suggest they do now though!:D

FTA69

katiek102010 wrote: »

Honestly the one thing I find most worrying about this whole issue is, I cannot find anything about what has been happening in Dublin in main stream media.

Our underfunded Gardai were tied up dealing with those fecking idiots for hours and the only publicity was gutter trash on social media.

Why?????

By pandering to this BS over the fear of being accused of racism, we are allowing them to get away with it.

This is what happened in London now large areas are no go zones

Crazy

Where in London is a no-go zone?

punisher5112

FTA69 wrote: »

Where in London is a no-go zone?

Quite a few places, gangs run some parts, moped/motorcycle gangs, acid attacks, knife attacks and murders are at a high.....
Gun crime of course also.

sbsquarepants

weldoninhio wrote: »

But they don’t see themselves as Irish. To qualify that, a lot of my friends moved to Oz (legally) in the last ten/twenty years. A lot now have Aussie citizenship and passports, they aren’t Australian, they are still Irish, their kids (Oz born) consider themselves Irish and tell their school friends that they are Irish. One you get citizenship you don’t automatically forget your roots.

The kind of PC bullshít we have these days just completely ignores this reality, denies it in fact. You can't even say it without being accused of racism. Everyone can see it, but apparently saying it is all kinds of wrong?

We all have family in the US or UK for example - parent's may have moved there 40, 50, 60 years ago, have had kids and grandkids, some of whom have barely, if ever, stepped foot in Ireland but who still consider themselves 100% Irish.

This stuff runs deep. If it's that way for us (and it quite obviously is) why should it be different for Nigerians, or Angolans, or Poles or Germans and everybody else?

FTA69

punisher5112 wrote: »

Quite a few places, gangs run some parts, moped/motorcycle gangs, acid attacks, knife attacks and murders are at a high.....
Gun crime of course also.

Where? Give me an example. If "large areas" of the city are "no go" as in normal people are unable to visit them then surely you can give me an example?

Johnny Sausage

iamstop wrote: »

Of the Funk and Soul board, not AH. :rolleyes:

Right about now the funk soul moderator

Check it out now the funk soul moderator

punisher5112

FTA69 wrote: »

Where? Give me an example. If "large areas" of the city are "no go" as in normal people are unable to visit them then surely you can give me an example?

I don't live there.

Many of the flat complexes for example.

You don't have to dig hard to find. Look up YouTube as they show their true colours these gangs do.

FTA69

punisher5112 wrote: »

I don't live there.

Many of the flat complexes for example.

You don't have to dig hard to find. Look up YouTube as they show their true colours these gangs do.

Right. So you're happy to concur with the idea that "large areas" of a city are no-go areas, but then can't tell me which ones and then come out with 'well some tower blocks are dodgy' (the same way every urban area in Europe will have similar areas). By that logic Ireland has far more no-go areas than London does.

London has issues with crime and they're largely as a consequence of social and economic issues. This idea swathes of the capital are total no-go areas is hysterical nonsense and nothing more.

weldoninhio

katiek102010 wrote: »

Honestly the one thing I find most worrying about this whole issue is, I cannot find anything about what has been happening in Dublin in main stream media.

Our underfunded Gardai were tied up dealing with those fecking idiots for hours and the only publicity was gutter trash on social media.

Why?????

By pandering to this BS over the fear of being accused of racism, we are allowing them to get away with it.

This is what happened in London now large areas are no go zones

Crazy

I believe it was mentioned with this morning on the 9am news on 98fm this morning. I saw believe because details were scant. An incident at a music event in a west Dublin hotel with one man charged is how they described it.

weldoninhio

FTA69 wrote: »

Where? Give me an example. If "large areas" of the city are "no go" as in normal people are unable to visit them then surely you can give me an example?

Tower Hamlets.

Omackeral

You never see gangs of Chinese youths going on like this. Why not?