Messy farm inheritance issue

beauf

They might have to sell off the farm or put it into the fair deal scheme to pay for the parents care in old age.

carrollsno1

Panch18 wrote: »

Don’t underestimate the major element that comes into it by those who have left and forgotten where they come from. And that element is GREED. That thought of getting a few hundred thousand for doing nothing instead of doing the right thing is far too tempting for some

Riddle me this so, i was the only child and grandchild held an interest in farming and was the only one to ever help on the farm and tolerate a lot of **** along the way with it too. My head was warped and had this idea that the farm was the be all and end all of the world, my auld lad got fairly done over in the will (farm split) after slaving away his whole life on it i realised he was getting f#cked over i wanted to see the world and couldnt stand waiting around for meself and the auld lad to get our own run if the farm. Ive no more interest in going back farming for the minute id never rule it out but upskilling myself and getting back out to Australia is my main aim now and maybe come back someday to farm it but i couldnt see myself ever selling it unless to get into farming somewhere else.
Since i left the sisters havent done a tap and never had, they got educated while i couldnt even sell a few cattle i had at home due to wills/power of attorney etc.
My grandfather wanted me to eventually get the farm he said "you neednt worry in life all of this will be yours someday".
So what should happen here? Should an already divided farm be split between us all leaving the only option to sell the small bits off? Should i get it all and pay off the sisters getting myself into debt for a lifetime of slavery? Or should i head home in a few months get stuck in and stay stuck on the farm for the rest of my days?
Ireland needs to get more like New Zealand really with sharefarming and scale it would lead to a hell of a lot less falling out over land i reckon as in if a farm is worth €1,000,000 and split 4 ways the benefactor with an interest in farming can still go off and buy 200 odd cows and go sharemilking, whereas now in Ireland if that was to happen youd just be left there with enough ground for 20 sucklers if youre lucky and still have the sane commitment to them as 200 cows.

Panch18

beauf wrote: »

Nice return on a part-time job is the other side of that

The daughter needs to draft up a business plan (she does the books anyway) and have that for a family meeting.

Seems black and white. If it's not viable if it's split up, then she walks away and concentrates on her full time job and career. No more working for free.

The business plan should show at what point does the farm become viable. If they want that the family meeting should discuss that financial plan.

If the daughter takes over the farm tries and gives up after a couple of years. Should she then they get the full value of the farm? That doesn't seem right.

Some equity share or trust seems better. The longer the farm is kept going some more equity transfers to the daughter. But the brothers retain a share when it gets sold off.

Again you are obsessed with the “value” of the land as opposed to what it will actually make for someone

It is obvious from the replies on here that non farmers have no clue how farm inheritance needs to work. And this could be a problem for this girl if her brothers are so far removed from the farm that they think like the non farmers on here

littlemisshobo

With no will written the farm would go to 2/3 to mother and remaining 1/3 between the children.

Sounds like this woman gets a better deal with will in place. It's fairest distribution between all siblings and absolutely weird she expects anything more.

She could ask to rent the 2/3 of farm belonging to brothers and buy them out when she can afford. Or get a business loan to buy out their share. Or sell the whole lot and with her 1/3 of profits establish her own farm. Or not. But this idea that she's entitled to the farm is ridiculous. If we were going by gender then traditionally she would inherit nothing. She would never have gone to college or be allowed much a say in anything. Isn't it great we've moved beyond these archaic notions?

Basically your friend needs to cop herself on and go make her own career for herself. Not sit around wondering when her parents will die and how to cut out her brothers from an inheritance.

Maia Great Railing

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

She would have to pay over 200k to inherit the farm if she received the entire estate, and that would be tax given to the state. Or over 100k if receiving the farm without the house. She would penalised if she didn't pay that in good time too. Given that she has nothing to her name and the farm is not profitable, the only way she could afford that is by making a quick sale of some or all of the land. So the end result would be the same, only difference would be whether the two sons are shafted for not keeping it real or something.

Incorrect.

If she could claim agriculture relief, then her tax liability would be negligible. However, if she were to sell the lot, she WOULD be hit with a huge tax bill. A good accountant would be her best bet.

littlemisshobo

roosky wrote: »

Oh no neither brother have any intention of buying her out they are quite open about having no interest and their big question was is it better to plant or sell so they have no emotional attachment to the farm and were surprised they were getting a share !

The bit that is hurting her the most is that her father is willing for the family farm to be split sold and or planted rather than keeping the farm together when there is a child wanting to farm it

Planting could make it a more sustainable business and that's a better focus than farming animals. Great her brothers are taking a more sensible approach.

Panch18

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Riddle me this so, i was the only child and grandchild held an interest in farming and was the only one to ever help on the farm and tolerate a lot of **** along the way with it too. My head was warped and had this idea that the farm was the be all and end all of the world, my auld lad got fairly done over in the will (farm split) after slaving away his whole life on it i realised he was getting f#cked over i wanted to see the world and couldnt stand waiting around for meself and the auld lad to get our own run if the farm. Ive no more interest in going back farming for the minute id never rule it out but upskilling myself and getting back out to Australia is my main aim now and maybe come back someday to farm it but i couldnt see myself ever selling it unless to get into farming somewhere else.
Since i left the sisters havent done a tap and never had, they got educated while i couldnt even sell a few cattle i had at home due to wills/power of attorney etc.
My grandfather wanted me to eventually get the farm he said "you neednt worry in life all of this will be yours someday".
So what should happen here? Should an already divided farm be split between us all leaving the only option to sell the small bits off? Should i get it all and pay off the sisters getting myself into debt for a lifetime of slavery? Or should i head home in a few months get stuck in and stay stuck on the farm for the rest of my days?
Ireland needs to get more like New Zealand really with sharefarming and scale it would lead to a hell of a lot less falling out over land i reckon as in if a farm is worth €1,000,000 and split 4 ways the benefactor with an interest in farming can still go off and buy 200 odd cows and go sharemilking, whereas now in Ireland if that was to happen youd just be left there with enough ground for 20 sucklers if youre lucky and still have the sane commitment to them as 200 cows.

Let me ask you 1 question

Why did this grandad split the farm and make it such a mess. Now I’m not asking you to answer that on a public forum, that’s a private matter but it’s the question I would be asking myself if I was in that situation

From what I can see Your story backs up the whole point of the argument.

If there is only 1 sibling working the farm it should never be split

doc22

Igotadose wrote: »

She needs to raise the pressure on the auld ones, by being prepared to walk. Tell them, 'sign it over to me completely' or ye are on your own - all your care decisions will be handled by someone else, not her. Her parents are stinkers, seems like the mother's the problem (no surprise there, so many mothers are particularly awful to their daughters.) If the parents can get the brothers to sign up for the care that they thought the'd be getting from her, more power to them, but she has some leverage here.

Ah common, 2 healthy parents in their 60s I'd guess. Not everyone needs this substantial care in old age, the majority of 70/80 year old's are far from cripples. Imagine a sign it over to me completely attitude from a girl who just finished college and comes back the odd weekend to do the books. It's not like she spent 40 years of her prime working full time on the farm. I don't know were this girls massive sense of entitlement is coming from.

Mortelaro

25 acres is a glorified back garden
It's a nuisance not a farm
The parents must have had off farm jobs to support 3 kids on that
Why would the daughter be bothered?

It's stupid

jackboy

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common, 2 healthy parents in their 60s I'd guess. Not everyone needs this substantial care in old age, the majority of 70/80 year old's are far from cripples. Imagine a sign it over to me completely attitude from a girl who just finished college and comes back the odd weekend to do the books. It's not like she spent 40 years of her prime working full time on the farm. I don't know were this girls massive sense of entitlement is coming from.

70/80 year olds are pretty much all close to if not beyond able to run a farm safely. They are either already dependent on the daughter or close to it.

s7ryf3925pivug

Two contradictory things are being expressed:

"I only want it because I love farming. It is nothing to do with greed. My brothers are greedy for wanting a share of it."

"All of this work I have done on the farm is for nothing if I do not get everything! I am being taken for a fool and won't do it any more!"

Well which is it? Are they doing the work because they love it and it's a bonding thing with their dad? Or are they putting themselves out massively to the extent that they deserve a huge payout?

Igotadose

Mortelaro wrote: »

25 acres is a glorified back garden
It's a nuisance not a farm
The parents must have had off farm jobs to support 3 kids on that
Why would the daughter be bothered?

It's stupid

It's an 80 acre farm. She'd get 25 if it were divided.

We don't know how old the parents are, but if the daughter is going to run the entire farm, she should own it. Brothers have contributed naught and aren't interested. No reason the daughter should give up what's rightfully hers.

doc22

jackboy wrote: »

70/80 year olds are pretty much all close to if not beyond able to run a farm safely. They are either already dependent on the daughter or close to it.

They can rent the farm, nice passive income in old age and tax efficient. I don't know how the parents are dependent on a girl who only shows up at the weekend be that health or farm wise.

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

25 acres is a glorified back garden
It's a nuisance not a farm
The parents must have had off farm jobs to support 3 kids on that
Why would the daughter be bothered?

It's stupid

Its actually 80 acres but still, that couldn't have supported 3 kids without off farm even if dairy
It certainly wouldn't now
Prison would be s better lifestyle

Wildly Boaring

doc22 wrote: »

Ah common, 2 healthy parents in their 60s I'd guess. Not everyone needs this substantial care in old age, the majority of 70/80 year old's are far from cripples. Imagine a sign it over to me completely attitude from a girl who just finished college and comes back the odd weekend to do the books. It's not like she spent 40 years of her prime working full time on the farm. I don't know were this girls massive sense of entitlement is coming from.

I'd be on the same page but maybe not as blunt.

A child who goes off to college, works fulltime in Dublin and comes back at weekends and holidays and "plans" to come back is a pretty weak argument for full inheritance.

In this instance an 80 acre suckler farm generating "€10k profit" is not a sustainable farm.

If the farm were larger and/or more profitable. Or if she had made big career sacrifices to try to work locally at lower pay she could be rightfully aggrieved.

It may be the best thing happens to her that this is split.
She will not feel tied to a full time job while doing a full time job for 10k a year.
She might start enjoying her weekends now. Bit of time off, maybe take up couple of hobbies.

Start openly looking at best plan for her third.

wrangler

carrollsno1 wrote: »

Riddle me this so, i was the only child and grandchild held an interest in farming and was the only one to ever help on the farm and tolerate a lot of **** along the way with it too. My head was warped and had this idea that the farm was the be all and end all of the world, my auld lad got fairly done over in the will (farm split) after slaving away his whole life on it i realised he was getting f#cked over i wanted to see the world and couldnt stand waiting around for meself and the auld lad to get our own run if the farm. Ive no more interest in going back farming for the minute id never rule it out but upskilling myself and getting back out to Australia is my main aim now and maybe come back someday to farm it but i couldnt see myself ever selling it unless to get into farming somewhere else.
Since i left the sisters havent done a tap and never had, they got educated while i couldnt even sell a few cattle i had at home due to wills/power of attorney etc.
My grandfather wanted me to eventually get the farm he said "you neednt worry in life all of this will be yours someday".
So what should happen here? Should an already divided farm be split between us all leaving the only option to sell the small bits off? Should i get it all and pay off the sisters getting myself into debt for a lifetime of slavery? Or should i head home in a few months get stuck in and stay stuck on the farm for the rest of my days?
Ireland needs to get more like New Zealand really with sharefarming and scale it would lead to a hell of a lot less falling out over land i reckon as in if a farm is worth €1,000,000 and split 4 ways the benefactor with an interest in farming can still go off and buy 200 odd cows and go sharemilking, whereas now in Ireland if that was to happen youd just be left there with enough ground for 20 sucklers if youre lucky and still have the sane commitment to them as 200 cows.

Farming now hoping to get the farm is naive nowadays, young people are too well educated, Everything should be sorted now within a couple of years of starting to farm, otherwise do something else until the owner is prepared to make a commitment ...... as you seem to have done

carrollsno1

Panch18 wrote: »

Let me ask you 1 question

Why did this grandad split the farm and make it such a mess. Now I’m not asking you to answer that on a public forum, that’s a private matter but it’s the question I would be asking myself if I was in that situation

From what I can see Your story backs up the whole point of the argument.

If there is only 1 sibling working the farm it should never be split

I asked myself that question countless times the other successor is a bachelor pushing 60 hasnt a notion and had planning put in for forestry before the transfer was even complete. I questioned my grandfather on it too as he was always opposed to forestry his response "ah he said hed like to get it". There was other siblings too who were also very well looked after and had less of a load in the care of the man before passing as well.
I dont have much time for one aunt and uncle there over comments made in the final years it didnt trickle into anything between me and the cousins were all fairly good but its a case of if they called down to our house when im ho e id just have to get up and walk out the back door before they get in the front door to keep things civil.

Wildly Boaring

Also OP lot of advice her about family meetings and "calling their bluff" etc

Remember at the end of the day that the other 2 have now been told they are to get a third each.
The cat is out of the bag, pandora 's box is opened already etc....

Their heads will have been turned by money. So they'll already have a plan for their bit. Any chance of her getting the lot is now slim. And if she does there will now be resentment.

I see your point that this is how farm inheritance should work else every farm breaks up.

The 2 wont. Or their wives wont.

Does she want it that badly?

Donald Trump

wrangler wrote: »

Farming now hoping to get the farm is naive nowadays, young people are too well educated, Everything should be sorted now within a couple of years of starting to farm, otherwise do something else until the owner is prepared to make a commitment ...... as you seem to have done

It could also be the case in this instance that the two brothers did just that - were told it was being split 3 ways and instead of moaning about it, went off and fended for themselves and got jobs.

carrollsno1

wrangler wrote: »

Farming now hoping to get the farm is naive nowadays, young people are too well educated, Everything should be sorted now within a couple of years of starting to farm, otherwise do something else until the owner is prepared to make a commitment ...... as you seem to have done

Only regret not hearing that years ago.

littlemisshobo

If I posted about how I spend time at my family home, doing chores, working on family business at weekends and think I should get 100% of my parents' inheritance and it wasn't farm related, I would be ripped into. This attitude is vulger and entitled. Defending it is mind boggling.

Farmers' kids are some seriously entitled pups 😂😂

Lu Tze

littlemisshobo wrote: »

If I posted about how I spend time at my family home, doing chores, working on family business at weekends and think I should get 100% of my parents' inheritance and it wasn't farm related, I would be ripped into. This attitude is vulger and entitled. Defending it is mind boggling.

Farmers' kids are some seriously entitled pups 😂😂

Youngest pup of 7 here, we all worked on the farm growing up (same as any household with household chores I would imagine) but the only one with a real interest in the animals was the eldest. None of us heading off on our own ways felt entitled to anything. The eldest worked on the farm, didn't go to college (although had the opportunity). Him working on the farm (while still owned by the father) was generating revenue which allowed the rest of us to go to college with some support from home (although we all worked part time). That was our inheritance, provided years in advance as far as I'm concerned, and certainly there were no disputes when the farm was handed over.

jackboy

littlemisshobo wrote: »

If I posted about how I spend time at my family home, doing chores, working on family business at weekends and think I should get 100% of my parents' inheritance and it wasn't farm related, I would be ripped into. This attitude is vulger and entitled. Defending it is mind boggling.

Farmers' kids are some seriously entitled pups ����

Farms are different to other businesses. A split farm often means no farm.

Panch18

littlemisshobo wrote: »

If I posted about how I spend time at my family home, doing chores, working on family business at weekends and think I should get 100% of my parents' inheritance and it wasn't farm related, I would be ripped into. This attitude is vulger and entitled. Defending it is mind boggling.

Farmers' kids are some seriously entitled pups 😂😂

You are totally naive as to how farming, or any small business in Ireland for that matter, works

Totally naive

beauf

Panch18 wrote: »

Again you are obsessed with the “value” of the land as opposed to what it will actually make for someone

It is obvious from the replies on here that non farmers have no clue how farm inheritance needs to work. And this could be a problem for this girl if her brothers are so far removed from the farm that they think like the non farmers on here

I'm looking at it as a viable business. Which includes income.

The brothers realized the wasn't enough in it for them AND the father and got out. The Daughter is working part-time and thinks its entitles her to the lot. She will end up taking up a farm that shes never worked full time at, and having to look after two elderly parents. More over it has to sustain not just herself, but both parents. Unless they have some other income stream we've not heard about.

beauf

Panch18 wrote: »

You are totally naive as to how farming, or any small business in Ireland for that matter, works

Totally naive

If anyone working on a farm part-time is relying on the whim of elderly parents inheritance to make their livelihood viable good luck to them. They are leaving themselves very vulnerable. They need to cop on.

The situation as described in this thread is exactly why its naive to not get these agreements sown up legally.

Panch18

beauf wrote: »

I'm looking at it as a viable business. Which includes income.

The brothers realized the wasn't enough in it for them AND the father and got out. The Daughter is working part-time and thinks its entitles her to the lot. She will end up taking up a farm that shes never worked full time at, and having to look after two elderly parents. More over it has to sustain not just herself, but both parents. Unless they have some other income stream we've not heard about.

It’s only a part time farm anyway

It’s simple, she does the work, they don’t, so she should get it

s7ryf3925pivug

Panch18 wrote: »

You are totally naive as to how farming, or any small business in Ireland for that matter, works

Totally naive

She's probably totally bemused by the attitudes here, as I am myself.

Split estate three ways. Everyone is well provided for. Look after parents if you want because you care about them. Work on farm if you want because you like it.

A 560k farm that earns 10k a year with a lot of work put into it is a broken and failed business.

A few hundred k is huge, life changing.It means not having to worry about affording rent or mortgage repayments - which is a fundamental existential concern for most people. The difference between security for your own family and not.

Absolutely disconnected from reality to consider keeping the farm in this scenario. And I agree that in any other context than farming nobody would entertain a similar idea.

doc22

beauf wrote: »

I'm looking at it as a viable business. Which includes income.

The brothers realized the wasn't enough in it for them AND the father and got out. The Daughter is working part-time and thinks its entitles her to the lot. She will end up taking up a farm that shes never worked full time at, and having to look after two elderly parents. More over it has to sustain not just herself, but both parents. Unless they have some other income stream we've not heard about.

The parents will get the state pension of 25k dwarfing the hard earned 10k on farm.

The reality of the situation is this girl was making fantasy plans in her head and must have mentioned to the parents about coming home and taking over the farm and the parents are making it absolutely clear that the farm will be divided evenly.Fair enough in my opinion.

littlemisshobo

Panch18 wrote: »

You are totally naive as to how farming, or any small business in Ireland for that matter, works

Totally naive

I'm sure I am. But I'm also flabbergasted by the vulgarity of expecting the family farm to go to a possibly 20 Yr old still in college. In what way has she contributed to that business to finance her older siblings to go to college? One side is all we get and she sounds spoiled af.