Messy farm inheritance issue

roosky

Bandana boy wrote: »

And how many people are knocking about with the cash to buy 80 acres in the west of Ireland at 33% more than the farm can sustain it self for and are stupid enough to pay that price ?

gotta think bar some Yank Boxer coming home top buy his ancestral home the farm will sell for a fair price and getting it for 66% of that is still pretty good.

What are you getting at.....that the farm profitablity should decide the market value ???

So then the farm is worth €1500 an acre and she pays the lads €1000 an acre ....... that would be a hard sell when they google “average land value in Ireland”

s7ryf3925pivug

roosky wrote: »

Oh she is more than happy to give them sites and let them have the family home which a relatively new home worth probably over 300k....the issue is for example of the 80 acres are valued at 7k an acre that’s €373,333 she would have to pay to inherit her family farm which is obviously not viable !

That sucks that she is only going to inherit just under 300k instead of getting her rightful 860k (especially when she would kindly give away 300k of that). Your assertion that most twenty-something year olds who do weekend jobs since their teens have accumulated well over 860k sounds like the coolheaded voice of reason. Those brothers with their "jobs" would just leave the money in their bank accounts. I can't imagine how her mother could think she wouldn't feel hard done by in this scenario!

roosky

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

That sucks that she is only going to inherit just under 300k instead of getting her rightful 860k (especially when she would kindly give away 300k of that). Your assertion that most twenty-something year olds who do weekend jobs since their teens have accumulated well over 860k sounds like the coolheaded voice of reason. Those brothers with their "jobs" would just leave the money in their bank accounts. I can't imagine how the mother would think she wouldn't feel hard done by in this scenario!

Your missing one very important point.....yes she she will be assets rich but the income from the farm will be less than 10k per year and she has the responsibility of looking after her parents as the age while the two brothers walk away with a Cheque and less responsibility

s7ryf3925pivug

roosky wrote: »

Your missing one very important point.....yes she she will be assets rich but the income from the farm will be less than 10k per year and she has the responsibility of looking after her parents as the age while the two brothers walk away with a Cheque and less responsibility

Her choice whether to look after them or not. She can change her mind.

10k per year is very bad. Best thing they can do is to dissolve the asset. Much better for the children to all get good houses with little or no mortgages.

GrasstoMilk

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

That sucks that she is only going to inherit just under 300k instead of getting her rightful 860k (especially when she would kindly give away 300k of that). Your assertion that most twenty-something year olds who do weekend jobs since their teens have accumulated well over 860k sounds like the coolheaded voice of reason. Those brothers with their "jobs" would just leave the money in their bank accounts. I can't imagine how her mother could think she wouldn't feel hard done by in this scenario!

It's only worth 800k if she sells it which she isnt going to do, she wants to farm it and keep it in the family. Farms are asset rich and cash poor in Ireland and it's hard work that rarely returns the value of the hours put in. The girl wants the family farm for the love if it and to keep it in the family.
If she's there every moment she gets and has a genuine interest and has plans to come back to live with the parents I would think she is being hard done by. Remember, it's only worth 800k if its sold

Mooooo

I'd suggest she sit down and talk with the whole family. Including the brothers. Keeping communication open is key.

Cavanjack

If the brothers have any cop they’d tell the parents to give it to their sister.

NSAman

Cavanjack wrote: »

If the brothers have any cop they’d tell the parents to give it to their sister.

You never know with inheritance issues who will be offended and go off and seek legal advice.

As Mooo above said, get the brothers involved and have a family discussion.It cleans the air and gets everyone’s side out in the open. The brothers are youngish by the sounds of this. Age changes a person and the brothers MAY want to come back too..

Sit down as a family and discuss this openly without anger.

Land and inheritance have split FAR too many families apart.

whelan2

I have 2 older sisters and 2 younger brothers. Farm was passed on to me when I was in my 20s. My parents have always been at pains to treat all of us fairly. The rest of them have all gotten deposits for their houses etc. None of them have any interest in the farm. There's one sister who an odd time will say that I must be the favourite as I got the farm. It used to annoy me but the last time I just said you're welcome to it.

joeguevara

Where there is a will there is a relative.

Firstly no one has a divine right to their parents assets and it appears that all children were given an education from their parents hard work. Making it a gender issue is irrelevant because every situation is different. Who knows if it would be different if it was one of the sons wanted to farm.

Honestly if it was me id tell my parents to sell up and enjoy their retirement but equally I know that farming families want their land to be passed down.

It appears that in this situation the parents don't want to show preference to one child over others and communication is key.

But a family issue is usually better served to be kept between them. It's admirable you helping your friend but can sometimes mean being blinded to other scenarios.

But I preface all the above by the fact that I am not a farmer.

dubrov

It's only fair to split the inheritance 3 ways. The only reason not to is to sustain the farm over family fairness.

It looks like the parents and brothers have already expressed the view that sustaining the farm is not important to them.

If there farm can't support itself at the fair market price (which I doubt), I don't see why everyone should be expected what would effectively be a hobby for the sister

Donald Trump

roosky wrote: »

She isn’t there already as she isn’t long out of college and wanted to build experience in other parts of Ireland before moving home, she genuinely has no interest in a quick buck or the asset value of the farm, this is a genuine case of love for the family farm and the lack of off farm Employment in the area holding up her permanent return home

Lets kill two birds with one stone here. If she's hot, sign her up to boards and we'll get her paired off with a bachelor farmer with even more land and better land in a better location.








Half tongue-in-cheek...half not

roosky

roosky wrote: »

Oh she is more than happy to give them sites and let them have the family home which a relatively new home worth probably over 300k....the issue is for example of the 80 acres are valued at 7k an acre that’s €373,333 she would have to pay to inherit her family farm which is obviously not viable !

Not necessarily. There is agriculture relief. She needs a good accountant who specialises in farm accounts.

They need discuss this as a family. Where tax problems may arise is if her siblings gifted her their share.

Professional advice including the whole family is needed.

Millionaire only not

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

It's only worth 800k if she sells it which she isnt going to do, she wants to farm it and keep it in the family. Farms are asset rich and cash poor in Ireland and it's hard work that rarely returns the value of the hours put in. The girl wants the family farm for the love if it and to keep it in the family.
If she's there every moment she gets and has a genuine interest and has plans to come back to live with the parents I would think she is being hard done by. Remember, it's only worth 800k if its sold

800k and by the time they sell pay fees tax , divided in 3 there’s nothing of good to anyone now !
And farm gone for good !
U can only sell in once !

Markcheese

Put the farm(land) into a family trust , to be used by whoever is farming it , it can't be sold or materially changed without all trustees agreement , ( option on farm use is passed on to kids of whoever runs it ,and if not, out to the cousins ) ,
Basically it means it stays as a family farm ,and not 1 child getting a massive payout and the others nothing ..

Bif

Parents house and a couple of sites for sons and farm for the daughter?

Millionaire only not

dubrov wrote: »

It's only fair to split the inheritance 3 ways. The only reason not to is to sustain the farm over family fairness.

It looks like the parents and brothers have already expressed the view that sustaining the farm is not important to them.

If there farm can't support itself at the fair
market price (which I doubt), I don't see why everyone should be expected what would effectively be a hobby for the sister

U can’t have fairness when it comes to farms , if it’s big enough to divide between siblings if there all interested fine !
After that it usually goes to the one who work’s and is prepared to mind the old ones in later year’s !
Take this farm giving it to 2 sons who looks like they’ve no interest for there other half’s to blow it in BT ‘s . They’ve there bed med go and lie in it !

Panch18

This has got mess written all over it

Firstly I don’t think it’s a gender issue per se, I know plenty of lads that have been ****ed over when it comes to farm inheritance, it’s not just done to women

Secondly I agree with having a family meeting - and depending on how that goes she then needs to take action. If the outcome is still to divide equally then she needs to immediately stop going home and working on the weekends. You can be a fool and work for free in the hope of getting something but when you know it’s going to be equally divided then to continue to work on it would be pure stupid altogether. And you know sometimes absence makes the heart grow fonder, the father might realise what it’s like without her and value her contributions more.

Thirdly if the brothers have wives or girlfriends then that could have a major influence on family meeting, I would say best if they were not included in the meeting.

From what you say on here it looks to me like this is a lost cause for her, especially with mother’s history of inheritance problems. She needs to find out exactly what the plan is, the will, and then act accordingly. If it was me as I said I’d be cutting ties, or certainly dramatically reducing ties. Certainly from a farm work point of view, just walk away

Panch18

joeguevara wrote: »

Where there is a will there is a relative.

er.

Haha this is a brilliant line, and soooo true

dubrov

Millionaire only not wrote:

U can’t have fairness when it comes to farms , if it’s big enough to divide between siblings if there all interested fine ! After that it usually goes to the one who work’s and is prepared to mind the old ones in later year’s ! Take this farm giving it to 2 sons who looks like they’ve no interest for there other half’s to blow it in BT ‘s . They’ve there bed med go and lie in it !

You are presuming that preservation of the farm within the family is the most important thing.

To be honest, it is a bit controlling to try and force children to keep farming by dangling the carrot of inheritance.

Let them make their own decisions. If they decide amongst themselves that one should inherit all, so be it

Panch18

dubrov wrote: »

You are presuming that preservation of the farm within the family is the most important thing.

To be honest, it is a bit controlling to try and force children to keep farming by dangling the carrot of inheritance.

Let them make their own decisions. If they decide amongst themselves that one should inherit all, so be it

Don’t underestimate the major element that comes into it by those who have left and forgotten where they come from. And that element is GREED. That thought of getting a few hundred thousand for doing nothing instead of doing the right thing is far too tempting for some

dubrov

Panch18 wrote:

Don’t underestimate the major element that comes into it by those who have left and forgotten where they come from. And that element is GREED. That thought of getting a few hundred thousand for doing nothing instead of doing the right thing is far too tempting for some

The decision to continue to work a farm is not a moral issue.

Millionaire only not

Panch18 wrote: »

Don’t underestimate the major element that comes into it by those who have left and forgotten where they come from. And that element is GREED. That thought of getting a few hundred thousand for doing nothing instead of doing the right thing is far too tempting for some

Gone Flanagan but not forgotton ! He he

Donald Trump

dubrov wrote: »

You are presuming that preservation of the farm within the family is the most important thing.

To be honest, it is a bit controlling to try and force children to keep farming by dangling the carrot of inheritance.

Let them make their own decisions. If they decide amongst themselves that one should inherit all, so be it

Well it's actually the parents decision. They can do what they like with it

All the brothers could do is decide to waive their inheritance so that they don't accept their share after the fact

Panch18

dubrov wrote: »

The decision to continue to work a farm is not a moral issue.

Actually it can be and often is

not recognising the work that another sibling has put into a farm and to expect the same inheritance as that sibling is a moral issue

Also by dividing a farm into smaller holdings you make it unviable, if 1 sibling is depending on the farm for income then morally they have more right to all the farm than it being divided

jackboy

If she is not getting the farm then the parents should pay her a wage for the work that she does on the farm. The parents may not like the suggestion and threaten to cut her off altogether. She should call their bluff. When the parents see that the brothers won’t do a tap for them in their old age they might start to see sense.

Igotadose

She needs to raise the pressure on the auld ones, by being prepared to walk. Tell them, 'sign it over to me completely' or ye are on your own - all your care decisions will be handled by someone else, not her. Her parents are stinkers, seems like the mother's the problem (no surprise there, so many mothers are particularly awful to their daughters.) If the parents can get the brothers to sign up for the care that they thought the'd be getting from her, more power to them, but she has some leverage here.

s7ryf3925pivug

She would have to pay over 200k to inherit the farm if she received the entire estate, and that would be tax given to the state. Or over 100k if receiving the farm without the house. She would penalised if she didn't pay that in good time too. Given that she has nothing to her name and the farm is not profitable, the only way she could afford that is by making a quick sale of some or all of the land. So the end result would be the same, only difference would be whether the two sons are shafted for not keeping it real or something.

beauf

Panch18 wrote: »

Don’t underestimate the major element that comes into it by those who have left and forgotten where they come from. And that element is GREED. That thought of getting a few hundred thousand for doing nothing instead of doing the right thing is far too tempting for some

Nice return on a part-time job is the other side of that

The daughter needs to draft up a business plan (she does the books anyway) and have that for a family meeting.

Seems black and white. If it's not viable if it's split up, then she walks away and concentrates on her full time job and career. No more working for free.

The business plan should show at what point does the farm become viable. If they want that the family meeting should discuss that financial plan.

If the daughter takes over the farm tries and gives up after a couple of years. Should she then they get the full value of the farm? That doesn't seem right.

Some equity share or trust seems better. The longer the farm is kept going some more equity transfers to the daughter. But the brothers retain a share when it gets sold off.

Panch18

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

She would have to pay over 200k to inherit the farm if she received the entire estate, and that would be tax given to the state. Or over 100k if receiving the farm without the house. She would penalised if she didn't pay that in good time too. Given that she has nothing to her name and the farm is not profitable, the only way she could afford that is by making a quick sale of some or all of the land. So the end result would be the same, only difference would be whether the two sons are shafted for not keeping it real or something.

Assuming she does or has the green cert then your above numbers are wrong due to agricultural relief