Messy farm inheritance issue

Alrigghtythen

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

That's a rather interesting adjective to be using in this conversation.

I was in much the same situation as this girl, all my siblings were told they were entitled to an education, whatever education they wanted from the farm and that was our entitlement, no sites, money or anything else was going to come our way.

Only one was going to get the farm but they would also be facilitating the others educations while working on the farm and getting their own education.

I spent 7 years in college and coming home most weekends, studying on the train and at home in the evenings and Sundays but also doing the paperwork and organising the following weeks work while setting up the work to be minimised for my parents while I was absent at college. All breaks were spent at home working while my siblings were off on holidays and weekends away, paid for in part by my work. But that was the deal and it worked out for me and for them and all were happy with the situation.

I continued doing this for a number of years working afterwards while the last of my siblings were educated to their fullest degree. When my parents got ill and couldn't work, it was me who left a good job and returned to work full time here.

Yet, despite everyone knowing the deal from an early stage, one of my inlaws had a conniption when they discovered they weren't getting a jot from my parents estate bar some heirlooms they had expressed an interest in. So despite my work educating their spouse and providing for their future by working while their spouse was enjoying themselves, they still felt an entitlement to gain a significant share of my parents estate.

Vulgarity, you said?

Indeed.

We still welcome them into our house when they call and still smile while they throw barbs and digs at our work on 'their' share of the farm but fate hasn't been kind to them and that's fine by me, they made their bed and will have the rest of their life to lie in it.

So the woman in question is quite right to expect a greater share of the estate than her brothers, imo, she's putting in the hours at home along with working as well and deserves a greater share of the proceedings.

Just as her brothers would if they had returned and spent time and energy on the farm.

Just as they chose not to.

Entitlement indeed.

Why would your parents not support their own children. Bit odd of them to expect a part time farmer/full time student to pay for all their other children's education. Where you get the money to do that? Was it from your parents and your parents farm by any chance?

Waffletraktor

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Why would your parents not support their own children. Bit odd of them to expect a part time farmer/full time student to pay for all their other children's education. Where you get the money to do that? Was it from your parents and your parents farm by any chance?

Budford didnt recieve any/much income as it went towards siblings education i thaught he meant atleast.

Mac Taylor

Mac Taylor wrote: »

It’s funny the amount of posters who don’t get the asset rich cash poor nature of farming or the Irish relationship with land, the value of land in an area has absolutely nothing to do with commercial reality in most cases......

There are a number of farms that have not sold near me due to either not getting a bid or not meeting reserve.

sell cheaper

whelan2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

sell cheaper

Cheaper than no bid?

Count Mondego

I have three brothers, and at no stage growing up did they help out on the farm, only myself. All family holidays left me at home from the age of 14 milking 30 cows but I didn't mind. We all went to college but like many here, all my weekends and most of my holidays were taken up with the farm.

It's a major sacrifice from teens until you inherit the farm in your 30s or 40s, years dedicated to it which your siblings think nothing of. You're also looking after your parents as everyone else moves away.

It was always understood within my family that I would inherit the farm. I remember being out one night with my three brothers, we would have been in our late 20s. We talked about he future handover and I put it to them that if my parents didn't hand over and died intestate, that they'd probably look for an equal share of the farm. They all agreed that they probably would. :-)

JeffKenna

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Budford didnt recieve any/much income as it went towards siblings education i thaught he meant atleast.

But he got his education paid for as well I'm assuming? If he were working on the farm weekends then he wouldn't have another source of income.

Who2

A lad said to me one day he was scared to go to a funeral, in case he got left a farm.
It’s sad but it’s the way it’s going. If the girl has the drive and passion for it, then let her at it. While her parents are probably trying to do the right thing it’s more than likely just messed up things. More than likely the lads had accepted that she was going to get the farm and that would be it, but now it’s up in the air, their better halves will want a cut and the whole thing is going to end up a mess.
We are only getting one side of the coin here, I’ve seen it before everything from bullying to torturing the parents. The truth be told she mightn’t be working as hard as she thinks.

Muahahaha

Maybe the solution is to split the farm three ways but the two brothers give their sister a life long lease. That way she gets to farm it and there is no disputes in the famlly about fav ouritism

MIKEKC

Maia Great Railing wrote: »

You pay high tax on inheritances or gifts that exceed a lifetime threshold. In the case of parents the threshold is a bit over 300k last I looked.

However someone mentioned that it's not applicable on the farm because farms are valued at 10% of their market value for this purpose. So you can inherit a 3 million euro farm and pay zero tax apparently.

Just 1%stamp juty plus solicitor costs. You have to get green cert or equivalent. This can be done on a part time basis over about 18 months

Waffletraktor

JeffKenna wrote: »

But he got his education paid for as well I'm assuming? If he were working on the farm weekends then he wouldn't have another source of income.

With lots of grants too i'd bet :pac:

Buford T. Justice XIX

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Why would your parents not support their own children. Bit odd of them to expect a part time farmer/full time student to pay for all their other children's education. Where you get the money to do that? Was it from your parents and your parents farm by any chance?

The farm supported all of us. But I bought my own stock with any money I received from communion, confirmation, birthdays and managed them myself when at home. The rest bought music and clothes and whatever they wanted with their money as was their right. No complaints from me about what they chose to spend their money on., that's their choice.

Profits from my animals paid my college expenses, profits from the farm itself paid theirs. I also worked at whatever job I could get while at college, bar work mostly one or two nights a week to fund entertainment and whatever expenses cropped up.

The only time i was supported by my parents was for short periods before exams when i wouldn't have time to work. Pretty much all my friends were in a similar situation, we expected nothing for free from our parents, anything we received from parents was paid for by labour at home.

Certainly, I piggy backed on systems my parents had in place as was available to the rest of my family. And I modified their systems to improve returns on the farm. But they preferred other avenues to spend their money on and their time on which was their choice.

I still wonder at the mentality that supports rewarding them for not contributing when that choice was readily available to them but their choice was to enjoy the rewards given to them instead of investing them.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Waffletraktor wrote: »

With lots of grants too i'd bet :pac:

Partial grant, unfortunately, but such was life. I'd have a lot more cattle earlier on a full grant:D

Reggie.

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The farm supported all of us. But I bought my own stock with any money I received from communion, confirmation, birthdays and managed them myself when at home. The rest bought music and clothes and whatever they wanted with their money as was their right. No complaints from me about what they chose to spend their money on., that's their choice.

Profits from my animals paid my college expenses, profits from the farm itself paid theirs. I also worked at whatever job I could get while at college, bar work mostly one or two nights a week to fund entertainment and whatever expenses cropped up.

The only time i was supported by my parents was for short periods before exams when i wouldn't have time to work. Pretty much all my friends were in a similar situation, we expected nothing for free from our parents, anything we received from parents was paid for by labour at home.

Certainly, I piggy backed on systems my parents had in place as was available to the rest of my family. And I modified their systems to improve returns on the farm. But they preferred other avenues to spend their money on and their time on which was their choice.

I still wonder at the mentality that supports rewarding them for not contributing when that choice was readily available to them but their choice was to enjoy the rewards given to them instead of investing them.

Well said

Bass Reeves

whelan2 wrote: »

Cheaper than no bid?

Vendors expectations can be unrealistic. As often buyers are from same location they will not want vendor to feel insulted by there offer. Land near me was put up for sale about 5 years ago. No offer on the day. It was a piece of land with very poor access and even after access you had a distance to main bank of the best land. I rang the auctioneer and chatted with him about value and an acceptable offer. He felt I would insult the vendor with my opening offer.

It was never sold. I have seen many a parcel of land remain unsold for over a decade and know of 2-3 places locally that are virtually on sale for longer than 10years

Waffletraktor

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Partial grant, unfortunately, but such was life. I'd have a lot more cattle earlier on a full grant:D

Cute Kerry Hoor's for ya

Bass Reeves

Muahahaha wrote: »

Maybe the solution is to split the farm three ways but the two brothers give their sister a life long lease. That way she gets to farm it and there is no disputes in the famlly about fav ouritism

Only putting the problem off for another 15-20years.

blackbox

I don't think that OP has clarified if the daughter is being paid for the work she does on the farm.

It is a mistake for anyone to work for free in the hope of getting an inheritance. She would be much better off getting a fair wage for the work she does now.

If the daughter has been properly paid for the work done, it would be fair for each child to inherit equally.

Millionaire only not

Who2 wrote: »

A lad said to me one day he was scared to go to a funeral, in case he got left a farm.
It’s sad but it’s the way it’s going. If the girl has the drive and passion for it, then let her at it. While her parents are probably trying to do the right thing it’s more than likely just messed up things. More than likely the lads had accepted that she was going to get the farm and that would be it, but now it’s up in the air, their better halves will want a cut and the whole thing is going to end up a mess.
We are only getting one side of the coin here, I’ve seen it before everything from bullying to torturing the parents. The truth be told she mightn’t be working as hard as she thinks.

The first line of this is hilarious , I’ve used in the bar 2/3 times already !

Great thread and glad people relise how selfish old people are that hold onto a farm so long it might as well pass a generation!

Land Ud be better off if u never say a blade of grass the pressure it can put on people to carry it to next generation after themselves is immense!

beauf

Who2 wrote: »

I’m not long in, have the non farming folk sorted the problem yet?

alps wrote: »

When it comes to passing on farm assets and indeed many other business assets, please realise that

FAIR does not mean EQUAL

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Sure they have, sell, sell, sell

What's interesting is the problem is caused by "farming folk" thinking and doing all of the above.
From the anecdotal stories from "farming folk" it's happens a lot.

Rather than treat it like a business, and get professional legal and tax advice, up and agree business plans and estate planning in advance, transfer of an ongoing business you wait until people are old and kranky and possibly start of cognitive issues to negotiate a deal, or just on their goodwill and fading memories.

Legally the parents could leave it to a cat. It's their business and property to do with as they want. If they decide someones contribution is worth nothing, and they don't have what it takes you are screwed if you invested lots of your life in it. This is when people start suing each other and give it all away in litigation.

beauf

Millionaire only not wrote: »

....Great thread and glad people relise how selfish old people are that hold onto a farm so long it might as well pass a generation! ...

It's the same in many other business its not unique to farming.

Alrigghtythen

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

The farm supported all of us. But I bought my own stock with any money I received from communion, confirmation, birthdays and managed them myself when at home. The rest bought music and clothes and whatever they wanted with their money as was their right. No complaints from me about what they chose to spend their money on., that's their choice.

Profits from my animals paid my college expenses, profits from the farm itself paid theirs. I also worked at whatever job I could get while at college, bar work mostly one or two nights a week to fund entertainment and whatever expenses cropped up.

The only time i was supported by my parents was for short periods before exams when i wouldn't have time to work. Pretty much all my friends were in a similar situation, we expected nothing for free from our parents, anything we received from parents was paid for by labour at home.

Certainly, I piggy backed on systems my parents had in place as was available to the rest of my family. And I modified their systems to improve returns on the farm. But they preferred other avenues to spend their money on and their time on which was their choice.

I still wonder at the mentality that supports rewarding them for not contributing when that choice was readily available to them but their choice was to enjoy the rewards given to them instead of investing them.

You bought stock with your communion money. Did you house them in your parents land for free or did the birthday money cover fodder until the conformation money came through?

I'd say your parents helped out providing land. Without the land you wouldn't have been able to buy the animals. How much did it cost them and where you paying rent for the land when you where in primary school?

mycro2013

beauf wrote: »

It's the same in many other business its not unique to farming.

I think the parents are being Frank and honest regarding their plans for the farm. While the situation may not be ideal and may be a hard pill to swallow at least it allows communication between each party to try and avoid conflict or kicking the can down the road.

The parents could have said nothing to each party and let everything as is. At least they have afforded the op's friend the opportunity to get their house in order and not be made a fool of, come time to read the will How many people have been promised the sun,moon and stars only for a will to tell them differently.

Bass Reeves

I think the parents are being fair. They have laid there cards on the table. It up to the daughter to put here cards there now.

The reality is an 80acre drystock farm is capable of being ran in 15-20 hours week if well set up. As I posted earlier it capable of an income of 25+k. Borrowing 300k the repayment on it would be in the region of 20k/year over 20years.

Land is valued at 550k and existing stock and machinery maybe 100k. You be buying it for less than 50c in the euro

Waffletraktor

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

You bought stock with your communion money. Did you house them in your parents land for free or did the birthday money cover fodder until the conformation money came through?

I'd say your parents helped out providing land. Without the land you wouldn't have been able to buy the animals. How much did it cost them and where you paying rent for the land when you where in primary school?

Inlue of payment for labour.

mycro2013

Also nothing focuses a person like borrowings. It forces you to remove all romantic notions of farming. As each business decision has to result in profitability.

Alrigghtythen

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Inlue of payment for labour.

Then by thinking they are entitled to land because they worked them farm is looking to get paid twice for the same work.

Millionaire only not

Can I ask a question not far of what op has initially asked !
If a person has worked a farm for 25 years and is left to another sibling after both parents pass have they any rights ?
The only contribution As I said they helped build a slatted house as money was scarce and gave money to parents now and again !

runawaybishop

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Then by thinking they are entitled to land because they worked them farm is looking to get paid twice for the same work.

That's not how farming works.

beauf

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Can I ask a question not far of what op has initially asked !
If a person has worked a farm for 25 years and is left to another sibling after both parents pass have they any rights ?
The only contribution As I said they helped build a slatted house as money was scarce and gave money to parents now and again !

Depends, the details you give are too vague.

https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/succession/dairy-farmers-son-awarded-2-7m-over-inheritance-feud

Should also look up gift tax.

Donald Trump

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Then by thinking they are entitled to land because they worked them farm is looking to get paid twice for the same work.

You're lucky if you get paid once in this line of work dude