CHAdeMO v CCS

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808834#Comment_120808834

Older Model S/X would have DC Type 2 sockets but many would have chademo adapters as well.

Although this is true, I would not count these in the CHAdeMO camp by virtue of the fact that they can also easily be upgraded to support CCS2 (if not already done on most of them...), or at the very least, if you do count them in the CHAeMO camp, they must also be counted in the CCS2 camp, so they would cancel each other out!

So in terms of Full BEV's with CHAdeMO, we have the Leaf, and any Irish Tesla Model S/X (via an adaptor) (PHEV's should not be counted) (Model S/X is no longer available in Ireland, so that number is never increasing, and if it does, they'll either be old imports with Type 2 plug (CCS & CHAdeMO capable), or new ones with CCS2), so lets say we have 8,000 CHAdeMO capable cars on Irish roads... Thats roughly about 4-5 months of CCS sales, so every 4-5 months, the ratio of CCS/CHAdeMO increases by a factor of about 1, so if it's 9/1 now, in 5 months it'll be 10/1, then 11/1 etc...

About 3% of 2023 sales are CHAdeMO capable... some are even calling for a 3/1 split between CCS/CHAdeMO deployment... which is probably still too much in my opinion....

Leave the existing CHAdeMO out there, and support and maintain it, but we don't need any new CHAdeMO installed, despite EasyGo & AppleGreen still installing it... at least eCars are seeing the light (and where the profits are to be made)

kanuseeme

I have seen id4+ etrons+ Tesla's at Japanese auctions, they would attract 10% duty, leafs will be 0% duty in a year or two, plus they are cheap to buy

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809209#Comment_120809209

Thats interesting.... didn't realise we were importing German cars from Japan.

Would be pretty shat though rocking up to a charger and being limited to a charging speed of 60kW.. thats means on eCars chargers you could take a max of 45kWh before incurring an overstay fee!!

Surely there'd be an option to convert an ID.4 or an e-tron back to CCS??

ELM327

You could buy the EU hardware and it would probably work, but I cant imagine a frankencar is the way someone wants to go when importing an audi.

I would say we just dont import from japaan

Laviski

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809143#Comment_120809143

fact is ESB have been removing CHADEMO, that is an issue and private operators should not be picking up their slack. If there is locations in an immediate locality then that argument could be made however one in Clifden was removed meaning anyone with CHADEMO would need to travel to westport or galway city to fast charge - now is that fair? i think not. single point of failure infra shouldn't be allowed either.

Increase the CCS deployment - absolutely but it should be adding to existing deployed infra.

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809247#Comment_120809247

Saved 12k minimum with my frankenbmw, money talks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809229#Comment_120809229

Far more than you would think, mostly ICE, An adapter or a big enough market for a muxsan type company

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809143#Comment_120809143

You've reminded me, I saw a Citroen C-Zero recently at J14 so that's another chademo brand to add to the list.

To be fair Easygo are installing Chademo but to my knowledge you can't use a Chademo and a CCS at the same time on any of their units... A better way to think of Easygo installs is just as a charge point for any car. Recent Easygo Lidl in Limerick has an AC43 plug for example but the unit will only allow one of the 3 plugs to be used at a time. I wouldn't buy into the idea that there are "enough" public chargers for any car or any socket though and it's notable that ESB are removing chademo cables from chargers in some more rural parts of the country so life is probably going to get more difficult for Leaf drivers in the near future

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809209#Comment_120809209

A Japanese Tesla would have the NACS standard socket. Japan is a good place to buy 3 year old + second hand cars from as Japanese people typically buy new and sell off 3 years later before their car gets its first test. It will be interesting to see what happens regarding this a few years down the road

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809561#Comment_120809561

You dont have a frankencar though, its a phev right? means it's only AC charging so if you imported a jdm 330e for instance you'd just have a type1 instead of type2 AC socket on the car. No biggy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809835#Comment_120809835

Japanese teslas (as do most of asia except Chinese market cars that come with I believe GB/T as standard) come with CCS2.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809835#Comment_120809835

I don't think the 16 I-MIEVs, 11 C-Zero's or the 8 Peugeot Ions that have been imported to Ireland are going to make a material difference to the sustainability of CHAdeMO charging. Though they do outnumber the 21 Lexus UX's.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809951#Comment_120809951

According to the below thread Japan use NACS, I've seen it mentioned elsewhere although I do admit I've never been to Japan

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-is-this-plug-called.256433/

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810058#Comment_120810058

Huh, you're right. I was sure they had migrated to type2 in Japan too but apparentlt not, they use split phase AC like in the US so they use the NACS standard. Every day a school day.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120810100#Comment_120810100

You're telling me... Now to be completely fair the numbers of people who will be importing a used Tesla from Japan to Ireland are going to be low, but as far as I know there are no NACS-CCS2 adapters available but NACS-Chademo is readily available

One way or another I see a lot of Japan electric car imports in the next few years where the standards are Type 1 AC and Chademo

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812031#Comment_120812031

but as far as I know there are no NACS-CCS2 adapters available

They do exist, though not officially through Tesla.

I see a lot of U.S. imports in Lithuania, and they all mostly use a CCS2 to NACS adaptor to charge.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809327#Comment_120809327

ESB have been removing CHADEMO

Yeah, that I would not agree with, and it goes against what eCars themselves said last year....

They mentioned "No new CHAdeMO deployment", which was fine on the face of it, but they never mentioned that any locations that were to be upgraded would possibly lose their CHAdeMO plugs....

I don't think we need any more CHAdeMO, but I would also argue we don't need any less CHAdeMO.

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120808159#Comment_120808159

I still have access to the table with historic data compiled when this thread started. I've updated it for the last years assuming CHAdeMO is represented only by Leafs as there is no Lexus EV sold in Ireland based on beep.beep data. There might be some Nissan NV200 imported but I imagine those numbers are statistically negligible. I really feel for CHAdeMO users as ecars pulls newlly installed chargers with CHAdeMO and replace them only after one or two years after install ( Clifden). As there is no plan whatsoever and money doesn't matter

based on this a pie chart puts the overall CHAdeMO population to below 15%

and a bar chart puts in perspective the massive imbalance for the last 4 years

AndyBoBandy

That bar chart really paints a picture...

The Leaf peaked in 2019, and from then onwards the decline was evident (coincidentally when the likes of the ID.3/4, Model 3 & Kona arrived on the market)...

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812135#Comment_120812135

I don't think we need any more CHAdeMO, but I would also argue we don't need any less CHAdeMO.

I'd agree with this also, one saving grace the Chademo drivers might have is that county councils and lidl are making deals with easygo to install 50kW fast chargers. Easygo by default have 2 DC plugs and sometimes an AC43 (one plug can be used at a time) as standard, so there's hope yet.

ELM327

I have no issues with leaving the existing chademos in, of course, why would you take out something thats working.

Just new installs shouldnt have it.

AndyBoBandy

Of the 600-700 Leaf's being bought every year, I'd imagine a large proportion of buyers would be 1st time EV owners going for the Leaf simply because it's the Leaf and it was the 'original' EV in Ireland, so its a name they recognise and trust.. and in turn probably care little about what type of plug it has, and I can't imagine the Nissan dealers are mentioning to potential buyers that the plug on the car is essentially 'obsolete'... although maybe that question might get asked more when the punters see a different plug on the Ariya in the same showroom...

And to be clear, I am absolutely in no way knocking the Leaf. It was, and is a brilliant EV, and will rightfully deserve its place in history.. I can see myself owning an old one as a 2nd car in the next 2-3 years hopefully to go full BEV household.

You'd just think that if at least half of Leaf buyers did a bit more research, they'd back away and go for a CCS car..

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120809835#Comment_120809835

On easygo 50kW units only one cable can be used at a time, so one is Chademo, the other CCS.

Easygo sometimes install 75kW units and in these you can use both cables at the same time, but if one of the cables is chademo and in use then naturally the next car must be CCS for both cables to be in use.

On some sites they have 3 cable units, and they may work like esb triple heads, chademo, CCS and AC. It may be possible to use tethered AC while one Dzc is in use. Lidl south bray is a good example of this. These are ABB not tritium as far as I remember.

In most brands of chargers I believe it's relatively easy to remove one of the cables and swap it for chademo to CCS and vice versa. On chargers where they lock the cable when not in use then the holder might need to change. The chargers themselves can handle both standards.

ESB have installed a lot of 4 cable units including recently in Newcastle Dublin with load sharing and both CCS and chademo. There would be no point making both cables on one side CCS as both cables on the same side can't be used at the same time.

September1

@ELM327 @Red Silurian If importing Teslas from Japan would become financially viable then most likely ports will be swapped, this is what happens in mainland Europe when they bring cars from USA or China. Here example from Ukraine (auto-translation is pretty good from Ukrainian):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_PegdFT-fs&t=16s

There is also video of swapping port on Chinese Tesla and ID.4 on this channel :-)

ELM327

Theres a great group on facebook called us spec teslas in europe, its not very active but the resources and past posts there are golden if you were ever to attempt it

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812989#Comment_120812989

My opinion is that the EU should mandate CCS as the EU charging standard in all vehicles sold in the EU. That's it. It's that kind of a thing like, I don't know , dozens of other things mandated in the EU automotive standards.

I suspect USA will very soon mandate NACS in a similar way.

Nothing against Leafs at all - I'm just against foreign automotive companies using foreign (Japanese-Chinese) standard in the EU market. It makes little sense.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813545#Comment_120813545

Easygo sometimes install 75kW units and in these you can use both cables at the same time, but if one of the cables is chademo and in use then naturally the next car must be CCS for both cables to be in use.

Genuinely didn't know this, these must be fairly new or rare (or new and rare) as the latest easygo install I've seen is a 2 cabled 50kW unit in Dungarvan, 1 X CCS + 1 X Chademo. Something similar is going in in Tramore

On some sites they have 3 cable units, and they may work like esb triple heads, chademo, CCS and AC. It may be possible to use tethered AC while one Dzc is in use. Lidl south bray is a good example of this. These are ABB not tritium as far as I remember.

At the lidl in Tipperary Town there are 3 cables, the last time I was there a Zoe was charging on the AC43 cable. I was able to plug in to the CCS but charging didn't stop until the Zoe unplugged. I suspect it would be the same if a leaf was plugged in to the Chademo socket

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812774#Comment_120812774

Your tune has changed since you got a CCS car 😂

Black_Knight

Last 7 days:

206 days of CCS usage on the ecars network

36 days of CHAdeMO usage on the ecars network.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120813993#Comment_120813993

I think they already have but since the Leaf was already for sale before that rule came in, they are allowed to continue selling it. Maybe they need a tabacco-style health warning on all new Leafs - ‘this car may be bad for your mental health on long trips’.

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120814011#Comment_120814011

These are the 75kW easygo load sharing units. Easygo have said they won't install higher power as it makes no financial sense due to grid costs and equipment costs and I suppose multiple chargers on one site already increase grid costs.

It's in finglas and has chademo for those that need it. It's probably a quiet chademo site like most other easygo sites compared to esb.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/452961

PS the new Obama services upgrade has loads of sharing chademo connectors.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120815425#Comment_120815425

I've used them at some sites, older lidl mainly, never been brave enough to plug in when a leaf was on the other side for fear of kicking him/her off but it does explain the 2 parking spaces in front of one charger... Note the triple-head also has 2 spaces, presumably to allow one car to start immediately when another finishes

10-10-20

Not being pedantic but it could be argued that any Leaf up until the 2018 facelift (40kWh battery) at this point in time are simply unable to either fast-charge or make a reasonable journey which may or may not include a fast-charge. So the way I view @innrain's table, you can probably discount 2000 or so of those as being active Chademo users right there. Would I be wrong in that assessment?