Who is everyone going to be voting for in the next general election?

various artistes

FF all the way. Not out of any love for them but because this version surely can't be quite as bad as FG under Leo, or FF under Cowen.


If FF don't do anything constructive about the insurance crisis, the housing crisis et al I'll simply give up voting until a centre right political party that puts Ireland and its taxpayers first gains any traction (far as I can see it doesn't currently exist) . However, I'd be worried that the exasperation might encourage some people to vote SF etc. Just look at the UK for a scary example, people so desperate for a savior that you have grown adults voting Corbyn.

Mad_maxx

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Maybe you're viewing them as 'centre left', relative to your own deeply right-wing stance.

How could any party in this country be described as right wing?

Mad_maxx

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The biggest difference being that I value the work that nurses do. You evidently do not.

Mom and apple pie stuff

James Brown

Mad_maxx wrote: »

How could any party in this country be described as right wing?

Putting the wants of private business over the needs of society.

Mad_maxx

various artistes wrote: »

FF all the way. Not out of any love for them but because this version surely can't be quite as bad as FG under Leo, or FF under Cowen.


If FF don't do anything constructive about the insurance crisis, the housing crisis et al I'll simply give up voting until a centre right political party that puts Ireland and its taxpayers first gains any traction (far as I can see it doesn't currently exist) . However, I'd be worried that the exasperation might encourage some people to vote SF etc. Just look at the UK for a scary example, people so desperate for a savior that you have grown adults voting Corbyn.

FF are further to the left than at any other time since the 1950,s, Michael Martin could be the leader of the Labour Party right now, that's how opposite of Conservative he is, FF were never a friend of the tax payer but are especially spendthrift right now

Mad_maxx

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Putting the wants of private business over the needs of society.

Unwrap that fuzzy line

Elaborate

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By any developed world standard, Fine Gael are a right wing party. The only thing up for discussion is how far right they are.

They delivered gay marriage, abortion, traveller ethnic status and are pushing to criminalise speech, then there is their economic policies, restored bubble years wages to various interest groups

"fine Gael are a right wing party"

Gimme a fcuking break

Better Than Christ

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Mom and apple pie stuff

Nice Americanism. Your skewed view of what constitutes left and right suddenly makes sense.

So you think nurses are overpaid then?

Mad_maxx

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Borrow. Build the homes and then rent them to people based on a percentage of their income, with no upper limit. It would make more financial sense than continuing to hand hundreds of millions of the state's money over to private landlords via the HAP scheme.

The Workers' Party has a good housing policy.

A third of social housing tenants don't bother paying their rent at all despite it costing peanuts, they face no consequence either

HAP is by far the cheapest option for the state, half of what's paid out comes back in income tax and the poor fool - landlord has take all the risks associated with unreliable demographics

RTE propoganda has rotted people's brains

Mad_maxx

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Nice Americanism. Your skewed view of what constitutes left and right suddenly makes sense.

So you think nurses are overpaid then?

I said i didn't think they were underpaid, 60k per annum isn't underpaid in my book

Jinglejangle69

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Borrow. Build the homes and then rent them to people based on a percentage of their income, with no upper limit. It would make more financial sense than continuing to hand hundreds of millions of the state's money over to private landlords via the HAP scheme.

The Workers' Party has a good housing policy.

Borrow? how much?

If you can show me evidence that a social house recoups it’s costs over a lifetime I’d agree.

But it’s a loss to the taxpayer while people get houses for next to nothing and 1/3 don’t even bother paying.

Sorry I just don’t have the sympathy for giving discounted houses to huge amounts of ungrateful people.

Social housing for genuine people like people with disabilities or marriage break ups and nowhere to live.

People who are able to work but take the easy option no way.

And there is plenty of those.

People go on as if every of the 10,000 people in emergency accommodation deserve a house paid for by the taxpayer.

Are we allowed ask questions about these people and their status?

Of course not sure they all deserve a free house and all the others that follow them into emergency accommodation.

No questions asked just take take take.

statesaver

Defo not FG/FF. There is no difference between them. Should do us all a favour and merge.

So, dunno who i'll vote for.

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Borrow? how much?

If you can show me evidence that a social house recoups it’s costs over a lifetime I’d agree.

But it’s a loss to the taxpayer while people get houses for next to nothing and 1/3 don’t even bother paying.

Revealed: State spends €1.2bn on housing even though building is cheaper

The trawl shows the average price paid for a social housing unit was €158,200 nationally, while this rises to €223,951 in Dublin. The cost of building a new home in Dublin during the same period would have been €199,000, according to Department of Housing figures.

In Dublin, around 1,100 homes could have been built for the amount it cost the State to buy 974 properties, which could have been bought instead by people hoping to own their first home.

Last year, a mere 838 homes were built by local authorities despite the worsening housing crisis.

Figures from the Central Statistics Office show there were more than 378,000 housing transactions between January 2011 and the end of February this year.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-state-spends-1-2bn-on-housing-even-though-building-is-cheaper-38125430.html

What ever your biases, we'd be better off building rather than buying. Leasing would be an even bigger waste.

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sorry I just don’t have the sympathy for giving discounted houses to huge amounts of ungrateful people.

What do you base this on?

tayto lover

Don’t know.
In my constituency we have a very poor choice unless someone new comes along.

Better Than Christ

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I said i didn't think they were underpaid, 60k per annum isn't underpaid in my book

Do you think they're overpaid? Simple question.

Also, what percentage of them are on €60k a year?

Mad_maxx wrote:

RTE propoganda has rotted people's brains

Let me guess - 'left-wing propoganda' (sic)?

rossie1977

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They delivered gay marriage, abortion, traveller ethnic status and are pushing to criminalise speech, then there is their economic policies, restored bubble years wages to various interest groups

"fine Gael are a right wing party"

Gimme a fcuking break

Actually the people of Ireland overwhelmingly delivered gay marriage and abortion. FG or any government party had nothing to do with it.

The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar turned Irish opinion almost completely in one direction immediately. There was country wide mass protests and Enda Kenny publicly stated in 2012

This is a matter that has divided Irish society now for a great number of years, and I am not going to be rushed into a situation by force of numbers on any side

Make no mistake FG and FF only got on the abortion/gay marriage train when it became clear public opinion was pointing one way and backing wrong horse ie no vote would have been political suicide.

Hodors Appletart

Won't vote for FF or FG

Won't vote for Labour, or the SDs

Won't vote Indie, waste of time and all they do is scupper proper government with parish pump nonsense.

Won't vote for PBP/WSP etc

Can't with any conscience vote SF

If the Greens run a candidate I'll go for them.

Better Than Christ

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Borrow? how much?

If you can show me evidence that a social house recoups it’s costs over a lifetime I’d agree.

But it’s a loss to the taxpayer while people get houses for next to nothing and 1/3 don’t even bother paying.

Sorry I just don’t have the sympathy for giving discounted houses to huge amounts of ungrateful people.

Social housing for genuine people like people with disabilities or marriage break ups and nowhere to live.

People who are able to work but take the easy option no way.

And there is plenty of those.

People go on as if every of the 10,000 people in emergency accommodation deserve a house paid for by the taxpayer.

Are we allowed ask questions about these people and their status?

Of course not sure they all deserve a free house and all the others that follow them into emergency accommodation.

No questions asked just take take take.

Quite the rant. Full of the usual right-wing prejudice. Lots of hard-working people live in social houses.

Far from giving people 'houses for next to nothing', the Workers' Party proposes widening the criteria for public housing so that working people currently being squeezed by private landlords can actually afford to live. Using myself as an example, I'm currently renting privately, earning too much to qualify for social housing and handing 40% of my salary over to my landlord. Under this proposal, I would qualify and would be paying between €629 and €874 a month. Still a significant chunk, but I'd have security and also half a chance of being able to save for a mortgage, should I want one. And if I lost my job in the next recession, my rent would temporarily go down in proportion with my income, so I wouldn't have to worry about spiraling into homelessness.

I know some people have an ideological hatred of the state doing anything that benefits anyone less fortunate than themselves, but if you take the time to read the link I posted, I'm sure you'll agree with at least some aspects of it.

suicide_circus

transport infrastructure is my election issue. it seems that whoever is in power is going to pursue a policy of population increase. public transport and roads in dublin are full to bursting. the greens then? they seem fixated on cycling but with the best will in the world, that is thinking far too small. we need large scale projects. i really dont know who to vote for.

Mad_maxx

rossie1977 wrote: »

Actually the people of Ireland overwhelmingly delivered gay marriage and abortion. FG or any government party had nothing to do with it.

The tragic death of Savita Halappanavar turned Irish opinion almost completely in one direction immediately. There was country wide mass protests and Enda Kenny publicly stated in 2012



Make no mistake FG and FF only got on the abortion/gay marriage train when it became clear public opinion was pointing one way and backing wrong horse ie no vote would have been political suicide.

Neither gay marriage or abortion were key issues for the majority of people, which isn't to say that the majority opposed, clearly they didn't but FG would not have been kicked out had they not called referendums on either, Liberal lobby groups forced the issue, it's the same with this direct provision business, to listen to the media, you would think it was of major concern to your average voter

various artistes

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Quite the rant. Full of the usual right-wing prejudice. Lots of hard-working people live in social houses.

Far from giving people 'houses for next to nothing', the Workers' Party proposes widening the criteria for public housing so that working people currently being squeezed by private landlords can actually afford to live. Using myself as an example, I'm currently renting privately, earning too much to qualify for social housing and handing 40% of my salary over to my landlord. Under this proposal, I would qualify and would be paying between €629 and €874 a month. Still a significant chunk, but I'd have security and also half a chance of being able to save for a mortgage, should I want one. And if I lost my job in the next recession, my rent would temporarily go down in proportion with my income, so I wouldn't have to worry about spiraling into homelessness.

I know some people have an ideological hatred of the state doing anything that benefits anyone less fortunate than themselves, but if you take the time to read the link I posted, I'm sure you'll agree with at least some aspects of it.

What would be the point of this when it's mixed with the policies of all left wing parties to immigration, specifically that of asylum seekers/ refugees?

All left wing parties as a matter of policy believe in:

a- Little to no restriction on the numbers of asylum seekers/ refugees our state should take in a given year

b- That these people should receive priority allocation of available social/ subsidised housing over Irish taxpayers renting privately or even welfare recipients already on housing lists.

If this sounds like hyperbole, demands by PBP and SF to end Direct Provision would lead to exactly this- we would, tomorrow, have 6000 people for whom DP is not good enough, and who would need to be housed before the next 6000 mostly native households currently on the list had their housing need met. That's not hyperbole, it is a simple fact that people like Ruth Coppinger have a white guilt complex and believe that there is no situation where an Irish person is in greater need of services than a member of a minority.

So I ask, what is the point in the SP building 75,000 new units in five years, as their policy piece says they would, when they would admit more than that number of asylum seekers and bump them straight up the list?

rossie1977

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Neither gay marriage or abortion were key issues for the majority of people, which isn't to say that the majority opposed, clearly they didn't but FG would not have been kicked out had they not called referendums on either, Liberal lobby groups forced the issue, it's the same with this direct provision business, to listen to the media, you would think it was of major concern to your average voter

Disagree. Savita Halappanavars death meant the clock was ticking on abortion referendum regardless how much FG tried to down play it initially, which they did.

Fact is conservative India and it's media were calling Ireland a backward nation after Mrs Halappanavars death. Along with Blasphemy law we were looked on abroad as either extremely conservative or heroes in places like Pakistan.

suicide_circus

FG have dined out long enough on their low hanging fruit no-brainer social referenda

Sir Oxman

Don't forget the Convention on the Constitution recommended the Marriage Referendum be held.
Citizens Assembly recommended the Abortion Referendum be held.

I doubt FG or FF would have facilitated both without having an 'out' like the above.

Jinglejangle69

Matt Barrett wrote: »

What ever your biases, we'd be better off building rather than buying. Leasing would be an even bigger waste.



What do you base this on?

Sooooooo.

Still no cost analysis or figures of how many social house you want built.

I’ll keep asking, hopefully I’ll get an answer.

By the way I love how you put up figures about how it’s more expensive to buy rather than build.

Even though my question was to back up your claim it’s more beneficial to the tax payer if we provide a social house rather than pay for HAP.

Talk about dodging the question and throwing some ****e in hoping it sticks.

Whenever your ready to answer the question that was asked of you yesterday.

various artistes

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Even though my question was to back up your claim it’s more beneficial to the tax payer if we provide a social house rather than pay for HAP.

A 3 bed terrace house built on state land by a state developer (not a private for profit developer) can be built for 140,000.

That's probably circa 8 years of average HAP contributions for a Dublin household. 16 if you want to harp on about half the profit being recycled as taxes.

HAP should be an emergency stop gap, not a solution.

Mad_maxx

rossie1977 wrote: »

Disagree. Savita Halappanavars death meant the clock was ticking on abortion referendum regardless how much FG tried to down play it initially, which they did.

Fact is conservative India and it's media were calling Ireland a backward nation after Mrs Halappanavars death. Along with Blasphemy law we were looked on abroad as either extremely conservative or heroes in places like Pakistan.

Who cares what India thinks, savita didn't die because of the eight and i don't oppose abortion by the way, I don't identify as either "pro choice" or "Pro life"

various artistes

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Who cares what India thinks,

India, indeed.

Next, the Saudi ambassador joins us to discuss Paddy Jackson's WhatsApp's about women.

realitykeeper

Moghead wrote: »

Are there any right wing parties that are strong in environmental issues?

There are no right wing parties.

blanch152

various artistes wrote: »

A 3 bed terrace house built on state land by a state developer (not a private for profit developer) can be built for 140,000.

That's probably circa 8 years of average HAP contributions for a Dublin household. 16 if you want to harp on about half the profit being recycled as taxes.

HAP should be an emergency stop gap, not a solution.

What state developer?