Trevor Deely case - new witness

KWAG2019

The man outside is obviously of great interest. The time gaps on the CCTV if accurate show that there was quite a long interval for interaction between them. If he was a regular in that area and I think he was I’m sure lots of people knew who he was and what his game was.

dark crystal

I think the poor lad was most likely mugged (very possibly by the man outside the gates), a struggle ensued and he was killed. The man took his wallet, phone etc.

The only puzzling thing is where his body could be.

I really hope they crack this case some day and his family can finally have some modicum of peace.

Muahahaha

While I think the abduction theory is the most likely what I cant get my head around is if he had a run in with a hardened criminal how he ended up dead from it. I reaslise these people are nut jobs but at the same time they dont want the hassle or risk from having to dispose of a body. And if there were a fight and he ended up unconscious surely they would just leave him there?

KWAG2019

20Wheel wrote: »

Car, river, or house.

If he never made it back to his place then one of these is necessary for him to disappear.

Its a hole in the premeditation theory, which I otherwise have some confidence in.

How do you plan to get someone into a car against their will, in a city center, without 1000 loose ends.

A causing death by drink driving charge is plenty reason to keep quiet.
And the price of finally coming out with a public confession just keeps going up with each passing day/year.

I think your opening sentence gives great clarity to the problem of the disappearance.

At that hour of a winter’s morning on a deserted inner city street in an era before widespread CCTV and during a taxi strike it’s very possible. But it’s going to take more than one person to do it, victim conscious or unconscious.

Raconteuse

20Wheel wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out premeditation.

Mainly because of the strange behaviour of the man in black.

From what I remember of the footage, x arrives in good time before Trevors arrival at the corner, where he immediately makes/takes a call. And proceeds to patiently wait some 30 mins without incident.

He then makes/takes a call very soon before Trevor arrives at the corner. And steps out seconds before Trevors arrival. His first change in some time.

Then as Trevor passes him, he takes a few seconds to check there's no one following, before immediately following Trevor.
And having a quick face to face chat.

This is all very consistent with identifying and targeting someone.

The same man seemingly hasn't identified himself to the gardai. To account for his behaviour that night.

Each factor alone can be explained away, but the odds get chipped away at with each one. Until premeditation starts to look like a possibility.

Yep. I do see people's point when they say no matter how crazed those guys are, they wouldn't just kill someone over a one-off incident, but it looks tremendously like that guy was waiting for him. I mean Marioara Rostas - that was over nothing; just wrong place, wrong time.

Not a peep for nearly half an hour despite standing in the rain all that time and then stepping onto the footpath while on the phone seconds before Trevor arrives. And not stepping back under the pillar - waiting out on the path for the duration of those final moments before Trevor rocks up... Then following him right to the staff gate. Then captured on CCTV still at the staff gate and looking up after Trevor had gone inside.

To me it seems like there was an incident in the pub - totally innocuous to Trevor (otherwise he would surely have been shaken or talking about it when he had a chat with his colleague on the night shift) but which bothered some dangerous people, who picked up that he worked in the BoI office down the road.

Raconteuse

Raconteuse wrote: »

.... looking up after Trevor had gone inside.

To me it seems like there was an incident in the pub - totally innocuous to Trevor (otherwise he would surely have been shaken or talking about it when he had a chat with his colleague on the night shift) but which bothered some dangerous people, who picked up that he worked in the BoI office down the road.

And they also picked up on the fact he was going to pop into work at 3am ish?

Peter Flynt

The search for Trevor Deely in Chapelizod a couple of years back tells me that the Gardai (and probably Trevor's family) do not believe he accidentally fell into the canal and ended up at sea and it seems they are more likely to believe that Trevor did become a victim of criminality.

Raconteuse

Augeo wrote: »

And they also picked up on the fact he was going to pop into work at 3am ish?

"I'm gonna pop into the office to get an umbrella on my way home" could be picked up if they were keeping an eye/ear on him.

punisher5112

Was it ever ruled out as a drug deal gone bad or money was owed.....

So sad for the family not knowing.

Couldn't even imagine.

I do hope it's found out what happened.

biscuits22

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The search for Trevor Deely in Chapelizod a couple of years back tells me that the Gardai (and probably Trevor's family) do not believe he accidentally fell into the canal and ended up at sea and it seems they are more likely to believe that Trevor did become a victim of criminality.

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/1071749907927711744

this twitter post by Padraig O'Reilly last year would suggest that as well

Day Lewin

Folks, if you want your theories to sound convincing, just please read up on the difference between a canal and a river.

The Dodder in spate surges down to the Liffey and thence into Dublin Bay.

Fall into the canal at Percy Place and you'll be bobbing against the lock gates. A canal is essentially a series of long narrow ponds, and the Grand Canal is closed to traffic in winter - no gates opened.

It's a detail, but a revealing one. Fit the facts please!

Peter Flynt

There is evidence that Deely's movements were being watched by at least 2 or more people as he left Buck Whaley's to go to BoI around the corner.
There is also evidence that he wasn't aware that he seemed in danger as he did not seem perturbed in any way during his conversation with his work colleague in the BoI.
I always believe that he felt he was being followed as he seemed to turn around in that last video of him on Haddington Road.

After that everything else is just speculation to the general public.

Raconteuse

Does anyone know if his colleague on the night shift said that Trevor mentioned the man coming right up and talking to him while he was opening the staff gate?

KWAG2019

There are reasons a single male would be in one spot for that long that would have nothing to do with whether TD came along or not.

In Ireland in 2000 premeditated murder and disposal of a body belongs to paramilitarism. There was a ceasefire since 1998 and there is no known reason that TD would be targeted. To my mind it’s a matter of looking at the simplest answer rather than imagining exotic possibilities.

There are a few very obvious possibilities. TD may have wished to disappear and done so. He may have entered water and his body swept out to sea. He may have had a violent altercation, died as a result and because of where he died and in whose company he died his body was disposed of. He may have been knocked down and his body disposed of.

I think there was a violent confrontation. His body was disposed of because the person involved had reason to fear Garda involvement much more than most. It threatened him particularly. There is something about this person that made them deeply frightened of the consequences of Garda involvement. It’s an unusual aspect of the case. Violent late night confrontations that end in death happen but can sometimes be manslaughter rather than murder. There was a huge risk to this person that prompted such a frightened response. It’s very odd.

20Wheel

Day Lewin wrote: »

Folks, if you want your theories to sound convincing, just please read up on the difference between a canal and a river.

The Dodder in spate surges down to the Liffey and thence into Dublin Bay.

Fall into the canal at Percy Place and you'll be bobbing against the lock gates. A canal is essentially a series of long narrow ponds, and the Grand Canal is closed to traffic in winter - no gates opened.

It's a detail, but a revealing one. Fit the facts please!

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/canal

1. An artificial river.

pburns

Mmm I remember being caught short one night around the little Mount Street Crescent bridge. I had the bright idea to jump down the bank for a quick pee. Never forget there was this guy in the back of a taxi across the street, I could see the glow of his fag who looked to be watching.

My friends had gone on ahead, I got out of there pretty sharpish I tell you...

TCM

pburns wrote:

Mmm I remember being caught short one night around the little Mount Street Crescent bridge. I had the bright idea to jump down the bank for a quick pee. Never forget there was this guy in the back of a taxi across the street, I could see the glow of his fag who looked to be watching.

Nonsense.

Fr Tod Umptious

Raconteuse wrote: »

Does anyone know if his colleague on the night shift said that Trevor mentioned the man coming right up and talking to him while he was opening the staff gate?

The colleague has said that Trevor did not mention him.

Fr Tod Umptious

punisher5112 wrote: »

Was it ever ruled out as a drug deal gone bad or money was owed.....

So sad for the family not knowing.

Couldn't even imagine.

I do hope it's found out what happened.

This sort of talk got the last thread closed.

Fr Tod Umptious

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There is evidence that Deely's movements were being watched by at least 2 or more people as he left Buck Whaley's to go to BoI around the corner.
There is also evidence that he wasn't aware that he seemed in danger as he did not seem perturbed in any way during his conversation with his work colleague in the BoI.
I always believe that he felt he was being followed as he seemed to turn around in that last video of him on Haddington Road.

After that everything else is just speculation to the general public.

There is no evidence for any of that.

The only thing remotely close to Trevor's "movements being watched" is that the Gardai think that the guy outside BOI may be the same guy that followed him down Haddington Rd.

Fr Tod Umptious

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Very strange be went to Alaska alone the week before. The girl he met was never contacted? Odd.

Something not right with that.

This is why people should read the Irish Times series on Trevor's disappearance to give them a grounding in some facts before they post.

The girl in Alaska was contacted, in fact two Gardai went out there at some point to follow any possible leads.

reg114

I have always made the point that if you are walking down the canal on Mespil road from Leeson st and are trying to get to get to Sandymount where Trevor was living at the time, the quickest way to get there , especially on a stormy night is to turn right from Mespil road onto Baggot st and not continue straight down Haddington Road. To go straight down Haddington Road is to take you out of your way and add an extra 5 minutes onto your journey which at all hours on a stormy night makes little sense. I would also question why he was on the Bank side of Haddington road as opposed to the other side. His movements and last known location in my mind do not show a guy who is going straight home.

smelly sock

reg114 wrote: »

I have always made the point that if you are walking down the canal on Mespil road from Leeson st and are trying to get to get to Sandymount where Trevor was living at the time, the quickest way to get there , especially on a stormy night is to turn right from Mespil road onto Baggot st and not continue straight down Haddington Road. To go straight down Haddington Road is to take you out of your way and add an extra 5 minutes onto your journey which at all hours on a stormy night makes little sense. I would also question why he was on the Bank side of Haddington road as opposed to the other side. His movements and last known location in my mind do not show a guy who is going straight home.

I think as hard as it may be to accept he was looking for something that is renowned within the area and met his demise this way. If this was premeditated then someome or something would have shown up in bank accounts , a friend remembering something etc.

Im not ruling out suicide btw. I have zero confidence in AGS regarding this case and a lot of others. He could eadily have made it to dublin bay from where he was.

punisher5112

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

This sort of talk got the last thread closed.

Honest question....

No foul intended and in no way am I being disrespectful.

As I said I'm sure the family would love to know as it's such a sad story.

Questions are asked just like yourself.

Beechwoodspark

To me the man who could solve a lot of what was going on that night is the man hanging around the entrance of TDs office.

I still find it odd he never mentioned him to his coworker. Not even, “some auld fella is hanging around the entrance there, who is he I wonder”

DarTipp

I'm just suspicious that this new witness has come forward with this 'new information' they have had so many opportunities to come forward before now, the Leroy Blevins take on it YT suggest there are two different guys , one guy on the phone and waiting at BOI for over 30 mins then he suddenly runs down with trevor to have a chat with him at the gate before he goes in to collect his umbrella ,

Blevins suggests this may have been to check that this was trevor, something was planned either to commit a robbery of some sort at BOI, trevor may have been coerced into doing something like this when in bucks and later on as he is followed by the second guy after 3.30 then he changes his mind and things go badly wrong and he is killed

soiseztomabel

Pheonix10 wrote: »

Some novel there! Good thing you didn't get carried away haha.

I bet this guy has at least one manuscript in the house

Raconteuse

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

To me the man who could solve a lot of what was going on that night is the man hanging around the entrance of TDs office.

It seems like he was involved imo.

boombang

Omackeral wrote: »

What about the possibility of a drunk driver hitting him? Christmas party season in full swing. No taxis that night so some fool decides to drive into town. Drink driving probably not as taboo 20 years ago as it is now to some people. Bad conditions coupled with poor visibility and a drunk fella maybe walking on the road. Maybe this hypothetical driver had a passenger with them. Possible enough.

While this theory does probably need two men in the car (in order to load a body), I think it's the most plausible. I fully agree that the Leeson St area had loads of shady types and the gate footage is ominous, but death by drink driving has to be by far the most likely scenario.

odyssey06

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

To me the man who could solve a lot of what was going on that night is the man hanging around the entrance of TDs office.
I still find it odd he never mentioned him to his coworker. Not even, “some auld fella is hanging around the entrance there, who is he I wonder”

I think I remember reading that there was a night security guard \ guy who looked after deliveries who has passed away since.
I'm assuming he would have noticed someone unusual loitering around and mentioned it when news of Trevor's disappearance broke ... would have been interesting to hear what he would have made of the recent CCTV footage.