Trevor Deely case - new witness

smelly sock

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Crims tend not to do things by the book, so a there’s a large amount of serendipity involved in solving some crimes, eg Elaine O’Hara must have been working some magic from the afterlife to have a set of fairly unusual coincidences align to result in that waster’s arrest and conviction.

Tech advancements also though in terms of Mobile phone triangulation etc. The same with Joe Oreilly. That sort of tech just wasnt available or as advanced when trevor went missing.

Beechwoodspark

BDI wrote: »

And the taxi strike stuff only means not as many taxis were running. There’s always plenty of taxis willing to work through a strike.

Might also mean one of them didn’t come forward because they didn’t want to publicly be labeled a scab but surely they’d have come forward by now.

Back then the taxi Union was much stronger than now. There were much fewer taxis and almost all were in the union. It was pre the liberalisation of the taxi industry.

KWAG2019

Deleted User wrote: »

Crims tend not to do things by the book, so a there’s a large amount of serendipity involved in solving some crimes, eg Elaine O’Hara must have been working some magic from the afterlife to have a set of fairly unusual coincidences align to result in that waster’s arrest and conviction.

A few things there set my teeth on edge! As someone with no time for the afterlife I'll let that slide but the individual guard who went out of his way to search the resevoir deserves great credit for brains and persistence rather than miracles.

My point was that police shouldn't raise expectations about significant events unless they are describing reality after the event i.e. they have a witness who has given a statement that has led to an arrest. They actually undermine themselves and lose public confidence if all they can offer is spin.

tara73

KWAG2019 wrote: »

My point was that police shouldn't raise expectations about significant events unless they are describing reality after the event i.e. they have a witness who has given a statement that has led to an arrest. They actually undermine themselves and lose public confidence if all they can offer is spin.

that's exactly what I think too and they can't be that unprofessional. posters here say the papers make this up but I can't believe that either, wouldn't they be in big trouble making such stuff up about an ongoing investigation?

KWAG2019

tara73 wrote: »

that's exactly what I think too and they can't be that unprofessional. posters here say the papers make this up but I can't believe that either, wouldn't they be in big trouble making such stuff up about an ongoing investigation?

Probably not. The tabloids in the UK and the US have dragged journalism and democracy with it into the gutter.

Fr Tod Umptious

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Back then the taxi Union was much stronger than now. There were much fewer taxis and almost all were in the union. It was pre the liberalisation of the taxi industry.

The fact that there was a taxi strike did not help things when it came to the investigation.

Taxi drivers see stuff, they talk to people, they are a great source of information.

Beechwoodspark

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The fact that there was a taxi strike did not help things when it came to the investigation.

Taxi drivers see stuff, they talk to people, they are a great source of information.

Agree. Had TD been able to take a taxi that night things would be very different.

smelly sock

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Agree. Had TD been able to take a taxi that night things would be very different.

Yeh possibly. Also depends on his motivation for taking the route he did. Not the most direct route by any means.

tdf7187

tara73 wrote: »

that's exactly what I think too and they can't be that unprofessional. posters here say the papers make this up but I can't believe that either, wouldn't they be in big trouble making such stuff up about an ongoing investigation?

Ok, let me make a few points, and I don't mean to be offensive.

(1) Not everything in the media is true.

(2) Cops use media sources to get info out, sometimes for ethically and procedurally valid reasons, sometimes for corrupt reasons.

(3) It is quite right, in my view, that cops sometimes use media to put bait out. Think of it as a fisherman that uses different types of bait to nab a big fish. That's the nature of the beast.

(4) Cops do not always agree on cases, in a detective team there will be internal debate and disagreement. I have direct knowledge of cases like that, not this specific case. I'm talking about corrupt politicians and things of that nature, some of 'em household names, kapiche?

(5) Who precisely - and I'm intrigued by this - would get the papers 'in big trouble' for 'making such stuff up'?

(6) I don't have inside knowledge on this case, and if I did I wouldn't put it on here, but really and truly, at the age of 46, welcome to the really real world. As I said, no personal offence intended.

Fr Tod Umptious

smelly sock wrote: »

Yeh possibly. Also depends on his motivation for taking the route he did. Not the most direct route by any means.

But not totally out of the way either as others have pointed out, and with a shop en route.

tdf7187

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But not totally out of the way either as others have pointed out, and with a shop en route.

Yeah. Wasn't the most direct route as the crow flies, but wasn't far off it.

Of course the CCTV footage that has been released may only be portion of what the cops have.

tdf7187

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But not totally out of the way either as others have pointed out, and with a shop en route.

I know I keep going on about this, but the Spar on Baggot St was also open very late back then. The one in Ringsend is 24 hours these days, not sure if it was in 2000.

strandroad

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yeah. Wasn't the most direct route as the crow flies, but wasn't far off it.

I know these roads quite well, the difference in routes is negligible and could be easily explained by something idiosyncratic he developed walking to and from work, like liking some footpaths better or not having to cross the road too many times or wait at the lights. I wonder if anyone knew or thought to ask about his usual daily route.

starbaby2003

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Agree. Had TD been able to take a taxi that night things would be very different.

I’m not sure he would have taken one. It’s not a particularly long walk. I used to live there and would rarely get a taxi home. This was when you would be queuing 60 mins plus for a taxi, longer than the walk home.

tdf7187

strandroad wrote: »

I know these roads quite well, the difference in routes is negligible and could be easily explained by something idiosyncratic he developed walking to and from work, like liking some footpaths better or not having to cross the road too many times or wait at the lights.

Indeed.

strandroad wrote: »

I wonder if anyone knew or thought to ask about his usual daily route.

Don't know.

NoeldeBournaix

This is an episode of 'O'Gorman's People' from 1999 for anyone who would like to know a bit more about the area around that time.
Its based around the Spar shop on Baggot Street which he says was 24hr, and talks to various characters.

https://youtu.be/z_h_lmYprI4

tara73

tdf7187 wrote: »

(5) Who precisely - and I'm intrigued by this - would get the papers 'in big trouble' for 'making such stuff up'?

(6) I don't have inside knowledge on this case, and if I did I wouldn't put it on here, but really and truly, at the age of 46, welcome to the really real world. As I said, no personal offence intended.

I'm not an expert in the jurisdictional system what are the exact people or authorties involved here, be it federal prosecutors or whoever they call themselves.

For example especially here on boards there were threads closed because people were writing stuff purely speculative or made up regarding a case with an ongoing investigation. As I understood boards could face charges if letting speculation roll too much during an ongoing investigation. So I think it's not too far fetched assuming it could (should!) be the same with newspapers writing bul**** regarding an ongoing investigation because it could derail exactly that investigation!!

I'm sure boards is watching this thread very closely!

But why do I have to explain it to you I ask myself, you should know this, claiming to know the 'really real world'.

And by the way, why do you think I'm 46? Don't take things for granted you just make up in your own mind. No personal offence intended:)

Beechwoodspark

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I’m not sure he would have taken one. It’s not a particularly long walk. I used to live there and would rarely get a taxi home. This was when you would be queuing 60 mins plus for a taxi, longer than the walk home.

Was a pretty rough night weather wise. Lashing Rain and windy

smelly sock

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Was a pretty rough night weather wise. Lashing Rain and windy

Ye know ill challenge this. I remember the night and it was cold and wet. Nothing out of the ordinary though. Some posters and media would have you believe it was a hurricane which it wasnt. Anyway neither here nor there i suppose.

tdf7187

NoeldeBournaix wrote: »

This is an episode of 'O'Gorman's People' from 1999 for anyone who would like to know a bit more about the area around that time.
Its based around the Spar shop on Baggot Street which he says was 24hr, and talks to various characters.

https://youtu.be/z_h_lmYprI4

Please do not inflict Paddy O'Gorman on us ever again. I'm literally begging you.

starbaby2003

How come the suspect is named in other threads but not on here ?

wakka12

suicide_circus wrote: »

random murder is rare. very rare. if as is being suggested, Trevor fell foul of a criminal gang, its difficult to avoid the idea that he was having some type of interaction with them. the area was notorious for prostitution and that trade goes hand in hand with orgabised crime, drugs etc.

Yeh but sometimes it just happens. Remember that fillipino girl that was abducted last year? If a witness hadnt seen her being loaded into the car, who knows , maybe she'd just be like Trevor,gone without a trace and people saying it's an outlandish theory that she was just murdered on the spot by a complete randomer

Beechwoodspark

smelly sock wrote: »

Ye know ill challenge this. I remember the night and it was cold and wet. Nothing out of the ordinary though. Some posters and media would have you believe it was a hurricane which it wasnt. Anyway neither here nor there i suppose.

I’m only going on the Irish times report which include the weather forecast for that night

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’m only going on the Irish times report which include the weather forecast for that night

Maybe the weather wasn’t as bad as forecast ?

TD called into his office before embarking home. He collected an umbrella.

starbaby2003

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Maybe the weather wasn’t as bad as forecast ?

TD called into his office before embarking home. He collected an umbrella.

Also beerjacket

Fr Tod Umptious

tdf7187 wrote: »

Yeah. Wasn't the most direct route as the crow flies, but wasn't far off it.

Of course the CCTV footage that has been released may only be portion of what the cops have.

I doubt they would be holding any back.

The Haddington Rd CCTV was found by the family, not AGS, in early January, it was almost erased.

If you think about it in the year 2000 any CCTV would likely have been VHS that was recorded over on a daily, weekly or monthly basis.
The earliest the Gardai started looking at CCTV would have been Monday evening, and they were looking for stuff from the previous Thursday night/Friday morning.
A lot of that might have already been overwritten.
Plus they would have started looking in the obvious places that a guy would have walked home from Wilton Tce, south down Lesson St or south down Baggot St.
And from what we know now he does not appear to have walked that way.

KWAG2019

tdf7187 wrote: »

Ok, let me make a few points, and I don't mean to be offensive.

(1) Not everything in the media is true.

(2) Cops use media sources to get info out, sometimes for ethically and procedurally valid reasons, sometimes for corrupt reasons.

(3) It is quite right, in my view, that cops sometimes use media to put bait out. Think of it as a fisherman that uses different types of bait to nab a big fish. That's the nature of the beast.

(4) Cops do not always agree on cases, in a detective team there will be internal debate and disagreement. I have direct knowledge of cases like that, not this specific case. I'm talking about corrupt politicians and things of that nature, some of 'em household names, kapiche?

(5) Who precisely - and I'm intrigued by this - would get the papers 'in big trouble' for 'making such stuff up'?

(6) I don't have inside knowledge on this case, and if I did I wouldn't put it on here, but really and truly, at the age of 46, welcome to the really real world. As I said, no personal offence intended.

I think most adults here would know this already. There is a problem if police have issued a claim of significant witness and cannot back it up. They lose credibility.

If one was of a mind to then Page 10 of the following offers some food for thought:
https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/publications/policy-documents/code-of-ethics-english-1-5-18.pdf

Asitis2019

Very sad case. My thoughts

I think he was targeted by a gang that night, and I reckon that it was an opportunistic hit. I would surmise that it started at the gates of BOI asset management - I think he was followed, and bundled into a car shortly after he steps out of the photo frame. Maybe he was offered a lift, but I doubt he would have accepted. My guess is the guy following him was carrying a weapon, and he was forced into the car. I don't know why - maybe they wanted him to launder money, or whatever, but I would say he fought back and was killed in a struggle. If he was killed in a mugging or an altercation in the street, then there would be witnesses, and an evidence trail. That is why I think he was abducted.

People have speculated about why he took an indirect route home given the inclement weather. There are two very good possibilities. One is that he was hungry and decided to stop of at a shop or chipper. The second is that he felt he was being followed, and decided to take an indirect route.

He was in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

tdf7187

KWAG2019 wrote: »

I think most adults here would know this already. There is a problem if police have issued a claim of significant witness and cannot back it up. They lose credibility.

If one was of a mind to then Page 10 of the following offers some food for thought:
https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/publications/policy-documents/code-of-ethics-english-1-5-18.pdf

Cool the jets, pal. I'm not a cop.

KWAG2019

tdf7187 wrote: »

Cool the jets, pal. I'm not a cop.

I assumed that. Just offering that link for thought.