Trevor Deely case - new witness

smelly sock

2cool4school wrote: »

as a source of reminiscences about fictional encounters with prostitutes this thread is second to none. really proving it's worth now as a means of keeping awareness of Trevor's case in peoples minds. definitely shouldn't be locked and deleted, no way...

Trevor went missing from an area renowned for prostitution. AGS now believe he had an encounter with a criminal gang operating in the area. They are two facts that we know.

tara73

good lord, now the conclusion seems unanimous again he took the service of a prostitute. ffs he was a very good looking young lad and if up to, he could have pulled young girls his age and mind-set in any nightclub. I never ever believe this decent guy had the urge for a seedy encounter at 4am on a stormy, rainy night on his way home from the christmas party.

I think next to the Alaska stories this is the most ridiculous assumption.

For me, the most credible and likely scenario is he came about something on his way home, for example a woman (and yes, maybe a prostitute) were abused by a man, be it heavily verbally and presumably also physicallly, she was shouting or crying (for help), Trevor heard it and went there to intervene. It was probably in a back yard of some dodgy house (and yes, maybe a house used as a brothel). The abuser of that woman for sure tried to get rid of Trevor, he hit him and he killed him unintentionally. Sometimes one bad hit and an unlucky fall on a hard stoney ground can kill someone instantly. People in the dodgy house didn't notice anything as drama between pimps and their prostitues or fights between men were probably normal.
All this happening in a backyard, people on the street didn't notice anything. The body could have been hidden in the house (and still is) or backyard or being disposed of discreetly somewhere completely else at a later time.

If this is to grahpical, Mods will delete it, but I think it is the most realistic and likely scenario, the nonsense about Trevor using prostitutes is more upsetting to the family than this, for me, realistic theorie what happened.

Fanny Wank

Points out people are making ridiculous assumptions. Proceeds to make an equally ridiculous assumption

I said it on the last thread, I hope I'm never on trial for a crime I didn't commit. People posting on this thread could be on the jury FFS

iano.p

I feel for the family. But alot of the theories can't be ruled out be it suicide or meeting a prostitute. I lived on lower baggot street for a short while. Some of the men meeting these women most people would say he has a good job, or a good looking fella he wouldn't need to go to a prostitute, but they do. I am not saying that happen but can't be Dismissed. One night I was walking home from a pub and seen a man laying to a woman. I went over and told him to stop he hit me I hit him back then the woman started hitting me for getting involved now I am a big chap but the man was much smaller but still wanted to fight. Only I had two of my friends I do feel things could have gone very different. For months till I moved away that chap use to stop anytime I was walking and just keep staring at me trying intimate me the first 5minutes could have gone very different some dark evening for me I feel. Something like that could very easily happen.

BDI

Fanny **** wrote: »

Points out people are making ridiculous assumptions. Proceeds to make an equally ridiculous assumption

I said it on the last thread, I hope I'm never on trial for a crime I didn't commit. People posting on this thread could be on the jury FFS

Yep, people with feelings are frightening.

Eddie Murphy and Hugh Grant were caught with prostitutes before.

Somebody should have told them they didn’t need to but they probably didn’t realise they could have pulled scary spice and Liz Hurley.

tara73

Fanny **** wrote: »

Points out people are making ridiculous assumptions. Proceeds to make an equally ridiculous assumption

I said it on the last thread, I hope I'm never on trial for a crime I didn't commit. People posting on this thread could be on the jury FFS

yes, and what do you expect from a thread with this subject? assumptions about the weather?

tara73

iano.p wrote: »

I feel for the family.

I think it needs to be pointed out nobody is forced to read the stuff here on boards or elsewhere, including the family.

But in general, I also wonder why this thread wasn't closed from the beginning at all..big, big questionmark..

Cushie Butterfield

tara73 wrote: »

For me, the most credible and likely scenario is .......

Your rescuing a damsel in distress theory is no more credible than anyone else's on this thread. Suddenly you have introduced a gangster's moll & have added an additional layer of intrigue to the sequence of events leading up to Trevor's disappearance, just because that's what you'd like to believe happened. This certainly won't be of any comfort to family & friends, so scolding others for doing the same is pretty pointless.

I think that, unfortunately the true facts will never come out especially given the passage of time. I also think that the best anyone can hope for is the recovery of his body. Pathology investigations may at that stage at least establish cause of death etc. If the gardaí have a suspect (dead or alive) then perhaps DNA traces could lead to some sort of resolution to what is a very sad & tragic situation that family & friends have had to endure for so many years.

Username you choose

2cool4school wrote: »

as a source of reminiscences about fictional encounters with prostitutes this thread is second to none. really proving it's worth now as a means of keeping awareness of Trevor's case in peoples minds. definitely shouldn't be locked and deleted, no way...

I can only assume you are referring to my post? (if not I apologize). Just to clarify, I am not saying that TD took the services of a prostitute that night, what I am saying is it is a possibility considering the location, time of night, alcohol consumed etc...

I was similar age to TD, was working full time, I would have considered myself okay looking, certainly could have "pulled" a girl in a bar, I struggled with confidence and was not experienced in relationships at the time.

Surely you can't be so niave to think that it's not even a (slim) possibility TD decided to meet for paid services? there seems to be a general assumption on this thread that TD would have never ever ever have tried to solicit sex.

misterme123

Getting back to this new witness...after years of no progress there are now two witnesses, the one who caused the dig in Chapelizod and this more recent one. I'm a bit skeptical about the more recent one as I haven't seen any mention beyond the original report.

But assuming there are two unique witnesses, I'd like to know:

(1) if they are unconnected to each other or not. For example, one could have been involved on the night while the other has heard rumours or knows/recognises MIB, in which case they are unconnected. Or they could both have heard the same rumours, or both been involved on the night.

(2) Did they name the same suspect (identity of MIB?) and do their version of events roughly align?

It seems like the first witness named a suspect. Has the second witness named someone? If the two witnesses are (1) unconnnected and (2) name the same suspect with similar stories, that would be a massive development for a case that has long looked like it would never be solved.

Arghus

Don't see much difference between this thread and the last one. Same amateur Sherlock Holmes codology.

Username you choose

Arghus wrote: »

Don't see much difference between this thread and the last one. Same amateur Sherlock Holmes codology.

Interested to know if you have a theory on what happened to TD?

Alliance123

misterme123 wrote: »

Getting back to this new witness...after years of no progress there are now two witnesses, the one who caused the dig in Chapelizod and this more recent one. I'm a bit skeptical about the more recent one as I haven't seen any mention beyond the original report.

But assuming there are two unique witnesses, I'd like to know:

(1) if they are unconnected to each other or not. For example, one could have been involved on the night while the other has heard rumours or knows/recognises MIB, in which case they are unconnected. Or they could both have heard the same rumours, or both been involved on the night.

(2) Did they name the same suspect (identity of MIB?) and do their version of events roughly align?

It seems like the first witness named a suspect. Has the second witness named someone? If the two witnesses are (1) unconnnected and (2) name the same suspect with similar stories, that would be a massive development for a case that has long looked like it would never be solved.

There is no new witness. Its bs. That gets released to get people talking again and especially at this time of year.

Very sad case.

Day Lewin

Alliance123 wrote: »

There is no new witness. Its bs. That gets released to get people talking again and especially at this time of year.

Very sad case.

But there most certainly was one last year.

Believe me, the Gardaí don't shut off an acre and dig it up for a month with security precautions, on a mere rumour.

And the few scraps of information that the Guards released at that time, and the actions they took, do tell us a little about the direction of the real investigation.

BDI

Day Lewin wrote: »

But there most certainly was one last year.

Believe me, the Gardaí don't shut off an acre and dig it up for a month with security precautions, on a mere rumour.

And the few scraps of information that the Guards released at that time, and the actions they took, do tell us a little about the direction of the real investigation.

The sister said the dig had nothing to do with this case. Maybe perhaps she was telling the truth. I got one believe her.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

BDI wrote: »

The sister said the dig had nothing to do with this case. Maybe perhaps she was telling the truth. I got one believe her.

They did not know that when they started though and they would not have started unless the info was some way solid

misterme123

BDI wrote: »

The sister said the dig had nothing to do with this case. Maybe perhaps she was telling the truth. I got one believe her.

I don't understand what this means. We know that nothing relevant was found. Are you just saying that witness has since been deemed not credible? Surely you don't mean that the gardai had alternative reasons for the dig.

Day Lewin

BDI wrote: »

The sister said the dig had nothing to do with this case. Maybe perhaps she was telling the truth. I got one believe her.

Well, the Guards said that it did, that the dig was conducted in connection with the case.

She probably meant, that nothing connected to the case was found.

Some other stuff was found, bits and pieces relating to criminal activity: I get a feeling that the Guards have not published all the information about this (and for excellent reasons, no doubt)

So, the dig doesn't seem to have added anything to the question of TD's disappearance, in the end: but they clearly believed that it had to be done, all the same, because of "a credible witness" in the matter.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Day Lewin wrote: »

Well, the Guards said that it did, that the dig was conducted in connection with the case.

She probably meant, that nothing connected to the case was found.

Some other stuff was found, bits and pieces relating to criminal activity: I get a feeling that the Guards have not published all the information about this (and for excellent reasons, no doubt)

So, the dig doesn't seem to have added anything to the question of TD's disappearance, in the end: but they clearly believed that it had to be done, all the same, because of "a credible witness" in the matter.

operative words

MonkieSocks

BDI wrote: »

The sister said the dig had nothing to do with this case. Maybe perhaps she was telling the truth. I got one believe her.

Totally agree,

I don't think the tip was credible.

Nothing was found connecting Trevor's body at the site, unless people think the body was moved at a later date from when it was first placed there.

And if some harm came upon Trevor on Haddington Road, there was the sea and mountains where a body could be discarded.

I understand the Guards had to act on the tip but, whoever said it was connected to Trevor put his family through an awful ordeal

wyrn

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Totally agree,

I don't think the tip was credible.

Nothing was found connecting Trevor's body at the site, unless people think the body was moved at a later date from when it was first placed there.

And if some harm came upon Trevor on Haddington Road, there was the sea and mountains where a body could be discarded.

I understand the Guards had to act on the tip but, whoever said it was connected to Trevor put his family through an awful ordeal

The guards seemed to think it was credible and they have more knowledge on the case than we do. Not to mention the fact that they couldn't just order the dig, they had to get approval from (several) higher ups to ok the dig, the resources and the length of time. There's no way that would have been given the green light unless there was something there to convince them and all the others who signed off on the dig.


Sadly nothing came of it but that could have been for any number of reasons.

MonkieSocks

wyrn wrote: »

The guards seemed to think it was credible and they have more knowledge on the case than we do. Not to mention the fact that they couldn't just order the dig, they had to get approval from (several) higher ups to ok the dig, the resources and the length of time. There's no way that would have been given the green light unless there was something there to convince them and all the others who signed off on the dig.


Sadly nothing came of it but that could have been for any number of reasons.

The main being one there was probably no body there in the first place,

Unless you think he was buried there and dug up at a later date and the body relocated somewhere else and buried again.

The tip came from a criminal who probably wanted to get the guards to find the Drugs and Gun but the only the only way he could that was to convince them Trevor was buried there.

Guards could have done a search with without saying what they were looking for, but they should not have said it was to do with Trevor, putting his family through more suffering.

And a criminal not wanting €100,000 reward is a bit odd to say the least.

Anyway here's Trevor's sister giving an interview earlier this week.

https://vocaroo.com/hQuwbLK7xgZ

wyrn

MonkieSocks wrote: »

The main being one there was probably no body there in the first place,

Unless you think he was buried there and dug up at a later date and the body relocated somewhere else and buried again.

I have absolutely no thoughts on that matter. I'm just saying the Guards and those who authorised the dig obviously felt the tip had enough credibility to go ahead. That dig would have cost a fortune and required a lot of logistics so it wasn't a "ah sure why not". They would have looked at it from every angle.

The tip came from a criminal who probably wanted to get the guards to find the Drugs and Gun but the only the only way he could that was to convince them Trevor was buried there.

Perhaps it was a criminal and if it was, it probably would have been even harder for them to convince the Guards to look there, especially since Chapelizord is so far away from where Trevor was last seen. Which means that person probably opened up about things that the Guards already know or suspect - things that weren't publicly made available to sway tehm to dig there. There's no way the Guards would have talked about the dig in relation to Trevor unless they had a working theory and something (in their work) to back it up.

Guards could have done a search with without saying what they were looking for, but they should not have said it was to do with Trevor, putting his family through more suffering.

And a criminal not wanting €100,000 reward is a bit odd to say the least.

Anyway here's Trevor's sister giving an interview earlier this week.

https://vocaroo.com/hQuwbLK7xgZ

I heard the interview. I just think that the Guards don't go digging up random sites, announcing it on the news for a missing person 17 years later unless they have good reason to.

smelly sock

MonkieSocks wrote: »

The main being one there was probably no body there in the first place,

Unless you think he was buried there and dug up at a later date and the body relocated somewhere else and buried again.

The tip came from a criminal who probably wanted to get the guards to find the Drugs and Gun but the only the only way he could that was to convince them Trevor was buried there.

Guards could have done a search with without saying what they were looking for, but they should not have said it was to do with Trevor, putting his family through more suffering.

And a criminal not wanting €100,000 reward is a bit odd to say the least.

Anyway here's Trevor's sister giving an interview earlier this week.

https://vocaroo.com/hQuwbLK7xgZ

I think it would be less suspiscious if he wanted the money.

misterme123

smelly sock wrote: »

I think it would be less suspiscious if he wanted the money.

Yeah I guess the most obvious reason for saying you don't want the money is if you know you're not getting it anyway as your story is bs. And if the person was described as an informant, that does imply it's a criminal (I think).



Still, I definitely couldn't bring myself to accept a reward in circumstances like that and I'm completely penniless. There must be lots of people who would feel the same, notwithstanding the fact that we're not talking about a law-abiding citizen.

Noodles81

I've read this whole thread and I'm truly none the wiser.

What follows is only conjecture and not meant to offend:

The only angle I thought of that wasn't mentioned was that maybe he said something to the MIB at the gate which pee-d him off. Like perhaps he dismissed him with a few choice words and headed into the bank. He did look dejected after speaking to TD. If MIB was a psycho, that could have been enough. The way he stared in the gate seems strangely menacing. Then he followed him, if he was the same guy, on Haddington road footage.

What I don't get is why he seemed to be waiting for him. There just doesn't seem any reason why anyone would follow and wait for such an unassuming character minding his own business.

I don't buy the prostitute angle, because why spend so much time in work with his mate, surely if that was top of your mind, there'd be an urgency to it?

Suicide could definitely be an option as despair can descend quite suddenly especially with drink taken. But the rivers and canal were thoroughly searched and DNA was provided for matching any bodies found so I don't think that is a possibility as much now.

It's such a sad case but Trevor's family are to be commended for making his case front and centre every year. I believe there are hundreds of missing people in Ireland, many more than we imagine. It's such a tragedy. I hope anyone with a conscience who knows anything will put these poor people's hearts and minds to rest. TD and all missing people deserve to be found and their cases closed with dignity.

My sympathies go out to Trevor's family. God bless them.

odyssey06

Noodles81 wrote: »

What I don't get is why he seemed to be waiting for him. There just doesn't seem any reason why anyone would follow and wait for such an unassuming character minding his own business.
I don't buy the prostitute angle, because why spend so much time in work with his mate, surely if that was top of your mind, there'd be an urgency to it?
...
My sympathies go out to Trevor's family. God bless them.

Fair play on that thoughtful post. Not trying to rebut but just mentioning one possible scenario however which could explain the interaction, and delaying tactics by TD is that he had arranged something illicit through MIB and then sobered up a bit and thought better of it.

MonkieSocks

wyrn wrote: »

I heard the interview. I just think that the Guards don't go digging up random sites, announcing it on the news for a missing person 17 years later unless they have good reason to.

They should have investigated the scene properly for evidence first, before making any announcement

Mentioning what they were searching for without any credible forensic evidence was tantamount to gross negligence of behalf of the Guards.

And it put Trevor's family through more suffering.


Nothing relating to Trevor was ever found at the site
https://vocaroo.com/hQuwbLK7xgZ

wyrn

MonkieSocks wrote: »

They should have investigated the scene properly for evidence first, before making any announcement

Mentioning what they were searching for without any credible forensic evidence was tantamount to gross negligence of behalf of the Guards.

And it put Trevor's family through more suffering.


Nothing relating to Trevor was ever found at the site
https://vocaroo.com/hQuwbLK7xgZ

Oh I totally agree that they shouldn't have announced anything but you're not understanding me on the other point. The Guards cannot just go digging up places on a whim - they need "something" whether it's corroboration of information that they already suspect, some sort of proof or the person knowing things that the Guards hadn't released.



It's not the Guards who allowed the dig to happen. They reckoned they had enough information to look there. They then had to get permission (I'm assuming from a Judge) to get access to the site, they had to coordinate with forensics to have people on site to search and then investigate the findings, they needed Guards to search the top of the ground and to stand guard outside.



Bottom line is - a lot of people with power went into the decision making based on the "evidence" the Guards had. Gross neglience would have been to dismiss it without investigating whatever "proof" that person had. They did look and they, the Guards and whoever else deemed with worthy enough of using up resources to investigate it. This doesn't normally happen on a 17 year old cold case unless they were satisfied there was a chance of finding something.

MonkieSocks

wyrn wrote: »

Bottom line is - a lot of people with power went into the decision making based on the "evidence" the Guards had. Gross neglience would have been to dismiss it without investigating whatever "proof" that person had. They did look and they, the Guards and whoever else deemed with worthy enough of using up resources to investigate it. This doesn't normally happen on a 17 year old cold case unless they were satisfied there was a chance of finding something.

I agree there had to be a dig

Generally, search warrants are issued by District Court Judges or Peace Commissioners when a Garda makes a statement on oath that he/she knows or has reasonable cause for believing or suspecting that a crime has been or is being committed. In general, reasonable force may be used to execute a search warrant.Feb 4, 2015

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/arrests/powers_of_search.html


Yes A Guard gets a tip about a supposed body hidden on a property.

Judge gives search warrant.

Dig can go ahead......evidence looked for regarding a supposed body hidden on a property.

No credible evidence regarding a supposed body hidden on a property.

The tip was not validated by anything of evidentiary value regarding Trevor ever being at this site.

Not a credible tip but had to be investigated, but should have been done with a lot more tact and compassion for Trevor's suffering family.

IMO....and I will leave it there