Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/ESPNF1/status/1291470813405810695

Things beginning to flare up a tad over the whole knee taking business.

I can't really grasp the concept that if you don't take a knee, you are racist.

pyramuid man

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ESPNF1/status/1291470813405810695

Things beginning to flare up a tad over the whole knee taking business.

I can't really grasp the concept that if you don't take a knee, you are racist.

Welcome to 2020. The era where if you don't emphatically come out in support of every cause going, you're a racist /whatever "IST" word is outrage of the day /week....

Back to F1, I hope Hulkenburg gets to race this week.

Infoanon

Concerns that France may close its border with Spain which will potentially stop the Spanish GP .

Definitely something to be kept an eye on over the next few days.

tipp_tipp_tipp

Yeah I see the ELMS was due to race in Barcelona in 3 weeks, they've cancelled it and are going to Paul Ricard instead.

Adamocovic

Infoanon wrote: »

Concerns that France may close its border with Spain which will potentially stop the Spanish GP .

Definitely something to be kept an eye on over the next few days.

FIA will need a new addition again.

IMOLA!!! ESTORIL!!!


now....

that's right!

MONDELLO!!

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ESPNF1/status/1291470813405810695

Things beginning to flare up a tad over the whole knee taking business.

I can't really grasp the concept that if you don't take a knee, you are racist.

It's just very simple. If you oppose racism, you do the knee. If you don't do the knee then what's the story? You're OK with racism? You don't care one way or another about racism? You're an active racist? Amazing that he'd be more upset about being called raise than he is about just doing the kneel.

Does he have a really clever reason for not doing kneeling? Maybe growing up on the mean streets of almost entirely wealthy white people in Monaco has given him an insight into racism that the rest of us haven't considered yet...

Harika

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Doubt it, if this was the case then why not use this format for tracks the teams are familiar with, or the double headers? I suspect it's due to noisy days limit that imola is required to stay within.

How many noisy track activities happened recently at Imola?

Two days were discussed since a long time

El_Duderino 09

Infoanon wrote: »

Concerns that France may close its border with Spain which will potentially stop the Spanish GP .

Definitely something to be kept an eye on over the next few days.

Losing Barcelona is just losing the disappointment of a terrible race. It's up there with France as the worst race track.

Frank Bullitt

Belgium looks to be on the ropes now as well.

muckwarrior

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's just very simple. If you oppose revise you do the knee. If you don't do the knee then what's the story? You're OK with racism? You don't care one way or another abpit racism? You're an active racist? Amazing that he'd be more upset about being called raise than he is about just doing the kneel.

Does he have a really clever reason for not doing kneeling? Maybe growing up on the mean streets of almost entirely wealthy white people in Monaco has given him an insight into racism that the rest of us haven't considered yet...

Standing during a national anthem doesn't make you racist. Kneeling during a national anthem doesn't make you not racist. Only thinking and acting like a racist makes you racist.

I can understand how Americans kneeling during the American national anthem would be a protest against police brutality and racism in their own country. But what does a Monegasque kneeling during the Austrian/Hungarian/British national anthem achieve?

Frank Bullitt

muckwarrior wrote: »

Standing during a national anthem doesn't make you racist. Kneeling during a national anthem doesn't make you not racist. Only thinking and acting like a racist makes you racist.

I can understand how Americans kneeling during the American national anthem would be a protest against police brutality and racism in their own country. But what does a Monegasque kneeling during the Austrian/Hungarian/British national anthem achieve?

I guess it is a consequence of the binary choices people are faced with in this day and age.

The idea that if you don't take a knee, it automatically makes you a racist is terrifyingly stupid.

Clearly, the knee taking isn't working within F1 (other sports are able to do this, or not do this, not every American Footballer does it even!). So what F1 should do, is align on something that they all agree with in how they show respect or support for a cause, no idea what that is, but something else has to be considered to stop this kind of division.

Rodney Bathgate

You can oppose racism and not support blm. Anyone who says otherwise is a dick.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's just very simple. If you oppose revise you do the knee. If you don't do the knee then what's the story? You're OK with racism? You don't care one way or another abpit racism? You're an active racist? Amazing that he'd be more upset about being called raise than he is about just doing the kneel.

Does he have a really clever reason for not doing kneeling? Maybe growing up on the mean streets of almost entirely wealthy white people in Monaco has given him an insight into racism that the rest of us haven't considered yet...

He wears the t-shirt. The knee thing is BLM and for now at least people are allowed to disagree with the movement and their aims which go way beyond not being racist.

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

Standing during a national anthem doesn't make you racist. Kneeling during a national anthem doesn't make you not racist. Only thinking and acting like a racist makes you racist.

I can understand how Americans kneeling during the American national anthem would be a protest against police brutality and racism in their own country. But what does a Monegasque kneeling during the Austrian/Hungarian/British national anthem achieve?

It "achieves" the exact same thing. Obviously. Anyone pretending this BLM movement is just about police behaviour in america, is very revealing. If you're that willing to go out of your way to pretend you don't understand the point, then the question becomes "why?".

Isn't it amazing that he'd be more upset about being accused of racism than he is about doing the kneel? Not doing the kneel IS a statement on your position on racism. If you don't care about racism, even enough to do a simple gesture like kneeling, that's a position worthy of criticism. Soz if that's upsetting, it's just reality.

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

I guess it is a consequence of the binary choices people are faced with in this day and age.

The idea that if you don't take a knee, it automatically makes you a racist is terrifyingly stupid.

Clearly, the knee taking isn't working within F1 (other sports are able to do this, or not do this, not every American Footballer does it even!). So what F1 should do, is align on something that they all agree with in how they show respect or support for a cause, no idea what that is, but something else has to be considered to stop this kind of division.

It's just very simple. If you oppose racism, you do the knee. If you don't do the knee then what's the story? You're OK with racism? You don't care one way or another about racism? You're an active racist? Amazing that he'd be more upset about being called raise than he is about just doing the kneel.

Does he have a really clever reason for not doing kneeling? Maybe growing up on the mean streets of almost entirely wealthy white people in Monaco has given him an insight into racism that the rest of us haven't considered yet...

The kneel hasn't worked in f1 for a very simple reason. F1 is an almost entirely white sport. Almost entirely white fan Base and an almost entirely white driver pool. An almost entirely white team owner pool and an almost entirely white history in all the above categories. Thats why racism isn't considered much of a problem in f1 because there are almost no non-white people in f1.

It's not a big mystery. It's the most beatent and obvious answer.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It "achieves" the exact same thing. Obviously. Anyone pretending this BLM movement is just about police behaviour in america, is very revealing. If you're that willing to go out of your way to pretend you don't understand the point, then the question becomes "why?".

Isn't it amazing that he'd be more eupset about being accused of racism than he is about doing the kneel? Not doing the kneel IS a statement on your position on racism. If you don't care about racism, even enough to do a simple gesture like kneeling, that's a position worthy of criticism. Soz if that's upsetting, it's just reality.

It really isn't. The lack of any kind of empathy on why someone would or would not kneel for an anthem is beyond me. And to be honest, anyones reason to not kneel is theirs, and theirs alone. Saying that them not doing makes them implicit with being full blown racist by that one act (or lack of act in this case) just broadens the divide as opposed to bridging it.

It has been brought up in my current place of employment in regards to diversity in the work place. It has relevance here to trying to get drivers (who are stubborn and competitive bastards at heart) See the following:

It shouldn’t be surprising that most diversity programs aren’t increasing diversity. Despite a few new bells and whistles, courtesy of big data, companies are basically doubling down on the same approaches they’ve used since the 1960s—which often make things worse, not better. Firms have long relied on diversity training to reduce bias on the job, hiring tests and performance ratings to limit it in recruitment and promotions, and grievance systems to give employees a way to challenge managers. Those tools are designed to preempt lawsuits by policing managers’ thoughts and actions. Yet laboratory studies show that this kind of force-feeding can activate bias rather than stamp it out. As social scientists have found, people often rebel against rules to assert their autonomy. Try to coerce me to do X, Y, or Z, and I’ll do the opposite just to prove that I’m my own person.

I have highlighted the important part, this is EXACTLY what is happening in F1 right now. It is not because they are racist.

El_Duderino 09

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

You can oppose racism and not support blm. Anyone who says otherwise is a dick.

Sure. But when people ask why you're ore upset about being called a racist than doing the kneel, it's a good idea to have an answer. Otherwise the chance of you being a racist go up.

I'd say CL probably doesn't give a shyte about racism because of his upbringing. And he makes his position clear every week by not kneeling and complaining they peope suspect him of being a racist.

Rodney Bathgate

Responses like the ones above are why politics and sport should not mix.

Some possibly drunk genius decides that a driver he knows nothing about is racist because the driver made the decision not to kneel. The driver is entitled to do that. He should not be forced to kneel. No one should be forced to kneel or wear blm on their jersey or race suit.

Calling him racist because he didn’t / doesn’t kneel is pathetic.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Amazing that he'd be more upset about being called raise than he is about just doing the kneel.

Drivel and basically gaslighting. Go give out about Kimi or Vettel there, good man.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. But when people ask why you're ore upset about being called a racist than doing the kneel, it's a good idea to have an answer. Otherwise the chance of you being a racist go up.

I'd say CL probably doesn't give a shyte about racism because of his upbringing. And he makes his position clear every week by not kneeling and complaining they peope suspect him of being a racist.

What kind of rubbish is this? Not kneeling increases your chances of being racist, give me a break with that one.

He has given his answer on why he doesn't kneel, but chances are he will still get guff over that. Does that mean he is a racist? I think we might need to see more (or actual) evidence on that one :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

It really isn't. The lack of any kind of empathy on why someone would or would not kneel for an anthem is beyond me. And to be honest, anyones reason to not kneel is theirs, and theirs alone. Saying that them not doing makes them implicit with being full blown racist by that one act (or lack of act in this case) just broadens the divide as opposed to bridging it.

It has been brought up in my current place of employment in regards to diversity in the work place. It has relevance here to trying to get drivers (who are stubborn and competitive bastards at heart) See the following:



I have highlighted the important part, this is EXACTLY what is happening in F1 right now. It is not because they are racist.

Of course deciding not to kneel is a statement of your position on racism. Anyone who gets more upset about being called racist than just doing the kneel, is telling you what they think about racism - they don't give a shyte about it one way or the other, as is their right.

It's not cpmplocated. It's just taking people at their behaviour.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course deciding not to kneel is a statement of your position on racism. Anyone who gets more upset about being called racist than just doing the kneel, is telling you what they think about racism - they don't give a shyte about it one way or the other, as is their right.

It's not cpmplocated. It's just taking people at their behaviour.

Rubbish, absolute rubbish and flawed logic. There were people in America who did not kneel for a myriad of reasons (some big that they were in the armed forces, or had family in the armed forces, or...because they just didn't want to kneel). Making that binary outcome of you are racist or not racist because you took a knee is flat out divisive, people can clearly not be racist and not take a knee, how hard is that to understand?

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

What kind of rubbish is this? Not kneeling increases your chances of being racist, give me a break with that one.

He has given his answer on why he doesn't kneel, but chances are he will still get guff over that. Does that mean he is a racist? I think we might need to see more (or actual) evidence on that one :rolleyes:

Nope. Not kneeling increases the chances of other people knowing you're position on racism. Just the most obvious observation.

Absolutely.aybe his experiences of growing up on the mean streets of almost exclusively wealthy, white Monaco has given him an insight that the everyone else hast thought of.... But I doubt it.

Sometimes you just need to take peope at their actions. If they don't care about racism, that's their right. But it's also worthy of criticism.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Of course deciding not to kneel is a statement of your position on racism. Anyone who gets more upset about being called racist than just doing the kneel, is telling you what they think about racism - they don't give a shyte about it one way or the other, as is their right.

It's not cpmplocated. It's just taking people at their behaviour.

You've said yourself BLM isn't just about police brutality. Taking the knee is for BLM and endorsing their positions.
I love also that part of your argument is "if you don't want hassle just do what people tell you". Nothing about sincerity or actual belief, just be visually submissive and tick the box we tell you to.

Rodney Bathgate

Deleted User wrote: »

Drivel and basically gaslighting. Go give out about Kimi or Vettel there, good man.

Vettel did kneel unfortunately. To be honest I lost some respect for Vettel for kneeling.

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

Rubbish, absolute rubbish and flawed logic. There were people in America who did not kneel for a myriad of reasons (some big that they were in the armed forces, or had family in the armed forces, or...because they just didn't want to kneel). Making that binary outcome of you are racist or not racist because you took a knee is flat out divisive, people can clearly not be racist and not take a knee, how hard is that to understand?

Amazing that you didn't even mention the most obvious reason to not kneel there... You didn't even consider it lol. Some people are just racist. Lots more people just don't give a shyte about racism because it doesn't affect them negatively - it's fine by them and they don't care if thibgs change it not. Loads of people fall into that category.

The drivers are all white, all wealthy, most came from money. Class issues like racism aren't a problem for them. It's not surprising that so many of them don't really care if things change re racism and so, don't do the kneel. Sometime things are exactly what they look like.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Nope. Not kneeling increases the chances of other people knowing you're position on racism. Just the most obvious observation.

Absolutely.aybe his experiences of growing up on the mean streets of almost exclusively wealthy, white Monaco has given him an insight that the everyone else hast thought of.... But I doubt it.

Sometimes you just need to take peope at their actions. If they don't care about racism, that's their right. But it's also worthy of criticism.

Not caring about racism and being a racist are poles apart. Probably good to point that one out from the start.

Also, your referencing him and his upbringing, if we use that logic then none of the drivers on the grid should be listened to, none of them have grown up on any "mean streets", Monaco or wherever they are from.

I do take people for their actions, not for the lack of them.

Frank Bullitt

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Azong that you didn't even mention the most obvious reason to not kneel there... You didn't even consider it lol. Some people are just racist. Lots more people just don't give a shyte about racism because it doesn't affect them negatively - it's fine by them.

So your conclusion from someone like Leclerc not kneeling is that they are automatically racist, not through any other acts or statements...just from that. Ok, got it, solid logic.

Rodney Bathgate

If we are talking about upbringing, didn’t Hamilton grow up in ‘the slums’ that was Stevenage. Father a ‘lowly’ accountant, support from McLaren from an early age.

Hijpo

I dont kneel, I dont wear a rainbow during pride week, I dont choose to be female every once in a while. I guess I'm a racist trans phobic homophobe??

What racist laws do white people have to eradicated in order for black people to be allowed the same opportunities as white people so that all the white people that are labelled racist so easily can finally prove they are not racist? Or which race needs to be held back so that black people can get a head start in order to level the playing field?

How many times should he kneel? Is one enough?