Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

quokula

Interesting that Honda have announced they’re committing to Indycar so soon after abandoning F1. A real indictment of the state of Formula 1 that it’s now less attractive than Indy to a major Japanese manufacturer, even one that already has a huge sunk cost in the sport.

Indycar for its part has delayed the introduction of its take on hybrids until 2023. And the plan when they do come in is to keep the 2.4 litre engine they currently have broadly the same, with an added KERS component for push to pass like F1 had in 2009, which sounds like a smart plan. The organisers have been keen to underline that their priority is that the new cars will be as fast and loud as before, obviously trying to avoid falling into the same traps F1 has.

tipp_tipp_tipp

quokula wrote: »

Interesting that Honda have announced they’re committing to Indycar so soon after abandoning F1. A real indictment of the state of Formula 1 that it’s now less attractive than Indy to a major Japanese manufacturer, even one that already has a huge sunk cost in the sport.

Indycar for its part has delayed the introduction of its take on hybrids until 2023. And the plan when they do come in is to keep the 2.4 litre engine they currently have broadly the same, with an added KERS component for push to pass like F1 had in 2009, which sounds like a smart plan. The organisers have been keen to underline that their priority is that the new cars will be as fast and loud as before, obviously trying to avoid falling into the same traps F1 has.

Are Honda and Chevrolet developing their own hybrid systems or is it a third party spec system that will be bolted on to the existing engines?

quokula

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Are Honda and Chevrolet developing their own hybrid systems or is it a third party spec system that will be bolted on to the existing engines?

Still in talks, the original plan is for it to be spec but that may be revised apparently.

ELM327

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Rename it to Energy, so then you'd have your Red Bull Energy.

Or Wings

Top Dog

Indycar? So was the zero emissions thing just complete bs?

quokula

Top Dog wrote: »

Indycar? So was the zero emissions thing just complete bs?

Like all decisions car manufacturers make relating to motorsport, it will have been an analysis of cost vs marketing benefit.

El_Duderino 09

I see rumours that Mick Schumacher will be announced as Alfa's driver for next year alongside Kimi.

It says the announcement will come this weekend so we won't have to wait too long to see if it's true.

Gio hasn't been much good but he's been nip and tuck with Kimi. I wouldn't keep either driver if there were good options available.

ELM327

Neither are good enough right now for F1, but there's plenty of not good enough drivers on the grid

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I see rumours that Mick Schumacher will be announced as Alfa's driver for next year alongside Kimi.

It says the announcement will come this weekend so we won't have to wait too long to see if it's true.

Gio hasn't been much good but he's been nip and tuck with Kimi. I wouldn't keep either driver if there were good options available.

To be fair,
Kimi would still have the speed to be further up if he had a decent car/engine.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

To be fair,
Kimi would still have the speed to be further up if he had a decent car/engine.

That's kinda axiomatic. All the drivers would be faster in a faster car. Did you mean something different?

As it stands, Kimi is about equal with Gio and that's not good. You'd expect an experienced driver to be able to adapt to the car and even with that advantage, he's only about equal with Gio who is losing his seat.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's kinda axiomatic. All the drivers would be faster in a faster car. Did you mean something different?

As it stands, Kimi is about equal with Gio and that's not good. You'd expect an experienced driver to be able to adapt to the car and even with that advantage, he's only about equal with Gio who is losing his seat.

Kimi is about as equal as gio because the car will go no faster.
As for all drivers would be faster?
Maybe. But a certain amount of skill and experience comes into play to make use of that speed.

When is the last time you saw Kimi fighting for places at the back of the field for almost a full season?
When is the last time you saw him almost continually qualifying to the rear of the field?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Kimi is about as equal as gio because the car will go no faster.
As for all drivers would be faster?
Maybe. But a certain amount of skill and experience comes into play to make use of that speed.

When is the last time you saw Kimi fighting for places at the back of the field for almost a full season?
When is the last time you saw him almost continually qualifying to the rear of the field?

Hold on. Are you suggesting that if you put max or Hamilton on the Alfa, they would only go as fast as Gio and no faster? Thats a bananas claim.

I think Kimi has been on the decline for a while now. He's in a crap car but so is his team. If he were currently able to drive faster than his teammate then he'd be faster than his teammate. But he isn't, so he isn't

But come on. The idea you've invented above is just a way to explain Kim's lack of pace without admitting he's gotten as slow as a driver who nobody really rates as being good. Sad to see a one very fast driver like Kimi reduced to the speed of a 2 season driver who's losing his seat.

I think everyone knows the Alfa isn't a good car. But the notion that both drivers are extracting every bit of speed from the car is fanciful.

This is it

When is Hamilton's contract up? Is it possible Mercedes line Verstappen up to replace him to coincide with Honda leaving? No idea if any of it would match up, just a thought.

El_Duderino 09

This is it wrote: »

When is Hamilton's contract up? Is it possible Mercedes line Verstappen up to replace him to coincide with Honda leaving? No idea if any of it would match up, just a thought.

Hamilton is in Contract negotiations at the moment. He always seems to be in negotiations with Mercedes. Not sure but I think the current contract expires at the end of 2021

Edit. The Internet suggests his contract expires at the end of this season

AMKC

I do not see Mercedes going to rock the boat anytime soon but if I were Max I would only be going for 1 or at the most 2year contracts with Red Bull so when the seat at Mercedes does come up he could go for it.
The only other place I see Hamilton going besides retiring is to Ferrari and that is not going to happen when Ferrari are the mess they are. Now if Ferrari got there act together maybe in the next 5 years then maybe it could happen.

This is it

AMKC wrote: »

I do not see Mercedes going to rock the boat anytime soon but if I were Max I would only be going for 1 or at the most 2year contracts with Red Bull so when the seat at Mercedes does come up he could go for it.
The only other place I see Hamilton going besides retiring is to Ferrari and that is not going to happen when Ferrari are the mess they are. Now if Ferrari got there act together maybe in the next 5 years then maybe it could happen.

Max is already in contract until 2023 I think but has a few get out clauses. Mercedes might see him as their next Hamilton, keep them on top for another 10 years

skipper_G

In the wake of Honda's decision to take their ball and go home, I'd recommend reading this piece by Dieter Rencken. Honda making bad decisions is not a shock

https://www.racefans.net/2020/10/07/why-is-honda-really-leaving-for-a-fourth-time-and-should-f1-be-concerned/

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hold on. Are you suggesting that if you put max or Hamilton on the Alfa, they would only go as fast as Gio and no faster? Thats a bananas claim.

I think Kimi has been on the decline for a while now. He's in a crap car but so is his team. If he were currently able to drive faster than his teammate then he'd be faster than his teammate. But he isn't, so he isn't

But come on. The idea you've invented above is just a way to explain Kim's lack of pace without admitting he's gotten as slow as a driver who nobody really rates as being good. Sad to see a one very fast driver like Kimi reduced to the speed of a 2 season driver who's losing his seat.

I think everyone knows the Alfa isn't a good car. But the notion that both drivers are extracting every bit of speed from the car is fanciful.

I said it to you before and I will say it to you again.
YOU
have zero evidence to back up your claim that any of those two would make the alfa go faster.
NONE !

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

I said it to you before and I will say it to you again.
YOU
have zero evidence to back up your claim that any of those two would make the alfa go faster.
NONE !

It was a question. I asked you whether your claim was that they had reached the limit of the car and IT can't go any faster. Than Kimi and Gio are making it hi.

You highlighted my asking you if you think Hamilton or Max would be unable to make the car go faster than Gio can. So what's your answer to the question?

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It was a question. I asked you whether your claim was that they had reached the limit of the car and IT can't go any faster. Than Kimi and Gio are making it hi.

You highlighted my asking you if you think Hamilton or Max would be unable to make the car go faster than Gio can. So what's your answer to the question?

If you cannot understand my reply.
Do me a favour. AGAIN
And toddle along.

quokula

I see that in the wake of Honda's exit, Renault are now beginning to call for the engine formula to be changed. Could this finally be the beginning of the end of this pitiful chapter of F1?

Cyril Abiteboul wrote:

The engine situation is simply unsustainable. In particular from an economic perspective, but also from a technology perspective.

...

I would expect that this development triggers some harder thinking about the scheduling of the next generation of power trains

...

I accept that it’s difficult, and maybe we need to ask ourselves if we need to have that level of technology in the engines if technology is only deemed to be detrimental to the competitiveness of a team and of a car.

Finally people inside the sport starting to see what the majority of fans could see for the last 6 years.

PopePalpatine

skipper_G wrote: »

In the wake of Honda's decision to take their ball and go home, I'd recommend reading this piece by Dieter Rencken. Honda making bad decisions is not a shock

https://www.racefans.net/2020/10/07/why-is-honda-really-leaving-for-a-fourth-time-and-should-f1-be-concerned/

I wonder what Jez has to say about that.

muckwarrior

vectra wrote: »

I said it to you before and I will say it to you again.
YOU
have zero evidence to back up your claim that any of those two would make the alfa go faster.
NONE !

And YOU are living on the MOON if you actually genuinely believe that the only reason Kimi is slow is the car, and that Max, Lewis, and several other drivers wouldn't be faster.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

If you cannot understand my reply.
Do me a favour. AGAIN
And toddle along.

LOL. I could ask you for evidence for your assertion that Gio and Kimi are extracting the absolute maximum speed from the car but obviously you don't have any.

I could use the absolutely normal logic to deduce that yes, a faster driver would make the alfa go faster - because it's absolutely the normal assumption.

I could ask you where you even came up with this idea that nobody could make a car go any faster than antonio giovinazzi and I could ask if you hold him particularly high esteem.

But you wouldn't answer any of those questions because you just made the initial assertion (that nobody could make the alfa go any faster than Gio) because you don't like the fact that Kimi is not a fast driver anymore and he only as fast as a driver who is probably going to be dropped after 2 seasons.

donspeekinglesh

AMKC wrote: »

The only other place I see Hamilton going besides retiring is to Ferrari

I'd be surprised if he did. He's only ever driven Mercedes powered cars, and I'm sure there'd be a lucrative Mercedes ambassadorship for him if that didn't change.

PukkaStukka

quokula wrote: »

I see that in the wake of Honda's exit, Renault are now beginning to call for the engine formula to be changed. Could this finally be the beginning of the end of this pitiful chapter of F1?



Finally people inside the sport starting to see what the majority of fans could see for the last 6 years.

The skeptic in me imagines that Mercedes will be furiously lobbying behind the scenes for no change to the formula. The sentiment that the current situation is unsustainable is well founded indeed

For Red Bull it's either a Renault engine which is now producing a decent amount of spank,, somehow produce their own engine or new supplier, or follow Honda out and exit.

vectra

muckwarrior wrote: »

And YOU are living on the MOON if you actually genuinely believe that the only reason Kimi is slow is the car, and that Max, Lewis, and several other drivers wouldn't be faster.

And you know better than the team principal ! :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

And you know better than the team principal ! :rolleyes:

Which team principal and what did they say?

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Which team principal and what did they say?

You are well able to read.
Off you go :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

You are well able to read.
Off you go :rolleyes:

You're not great at conversation.

In the meantime, I don't subscribe to the notion you invented, that cars have absolute limits such that a driver who isn't highly regarded like Gio, is getting the maximum pace and a faster driver wouldn't be able to get it to go any faster.

Look, it's a nonsense claim (regardless of what face-saving statement a team principal might have made). You only made it up because you don't like the fact that Kimi isn't very good anymore. It's a bit pitiful to see a grown adult have to stand over such a nonsense claim, but unless you take it back then, that's the position in which you've put yourself