Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202985#Comment_120202985

Classic victim blaming there.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203011#Comment_120203011

for the avoidance of doubt.

the motorist was wrong.

the cyclist was wrong.

call it victim blaming if you wish.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120202992#Comment_120202992

The rules of the road are not the laws. You're not supposed to overtake a left turning vehicleth

The law is:

However as a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

• Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it

Nutgrove Avenue if I recall? Doesn't looked to have changed in the 15 years since I've rode there. I'd not have been in the bike lane there myself as it suddenly dumps you back on the road a touch further up at the small apartments. Then when it starts back up again you'll usually have a car or 3 parked on it.

Weepsie

Then theelres the whole how is the lane demarcated too. Like it's bad driving but it's terrible situational awareness for all parties.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203062#Comment_120203062

I will.

The cyclist was not in the wrong here, attaching any blame to them is akin to blaming a girl for wearing a short skirt on a night out.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203133#Comment_120203133

No it's not. You're way off on that comparison.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203106#Comment_120203106

How it's demarcated? It's as clear as day that it's a cycle lane!

This shouldn't even be up for discussion

magicbastarder

say you're driving on the M50, and a car passes you but immediately swerves across in front of you; do you

A) hit the brakes to avoid a collision

B) plough on ahead because, hey, it's your right of way, and they shouldn't have done that?

you do A. you do A every single time because your duty to avoid a collision trumps all else. and you're not an idiot.

this does not alter the fact that the other driver created this situation; but continuiing straight on into an unfolding hazard is wrong.

magicbastarder

or a more absurd example (i'm going absurdist as i can't believe this is up for discussion).

say someone has lit a bonfire in the cycle lane in front of you, clearly an outrageously illegal act. do you continue to cycle straight ahead, because it's your right of way and they shouldn't have done that?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203157#Comment_120203157

Yes it's a cycle lane, but there are also different ways of marking out cycle lanes for very specific reasons in terms of when and how traffic can enter/cross. Either way the car was well within their right to start the turn when they got to it. They showed poor judgement in waiting. The cyclist showed poor judgement in proceeding.

Crap from both.

You're comparison is actually rather outrageous.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203162#Comment_120203162

There was no collision! The cyclist didn't plough on ahead!

Honestly i have no idea why both of you are persisting in blaming the cyclist here, they were fully aware of the sh1t driving that was about to unfold.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203188#Comment_120203188

My comparison is right on the money imo, you're both victim blaming. Cyclist should have been more aware, was it actually a cycle lane, cyclist was creating a hazard by being in the cycle lane.

This is the cycling forum isn't it? Seems to me that someone who isn't a regular poster gets treated differently to anyone in the clique.

CramCycle

I am so confused here (as I can't hear the video), legally the motorist is 100% in the wrong, morally the motorist is 100% in the wrong. On an unrelated note, not victim blaming, unrelated to the law, if a car overtakes me indicating, I am prepared for it to turn in. I have no sound so don't know what's happening but would I have done the same as the poster? yes I would but only because I'd be prepped to drop anchor, and I am a selfish enough bollicks that on occasion I'd rather be right than unhurt. Anyone who says that you couldn't see it coming is a liar or new to cycling in Dublin. I'd have let a roar, as soon as the wheel turned or the car slowed, that would have raised the dead. Should I have stopped, well, if giving advice to anyone else, I'd say they were a fool to continue expecting a good outcome. This said, I suspect the poster was like me, without sound, it appears they stop pedalling and they break in time. No harm to give the driver a bit of a scare so they don't act the **** in future. Doesn't mean myself or the poster are right.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203385#Comment_120203385

Well said, poster was clearly aware of what was unfolding and reacted, then gave the driver a bollicking, i'd have done the same myself.

magicbastarder

cram, you're out of the clique.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203441#Comment_120203441

ROFL :-)

DaveyDave

This might be a surprise to some people based on some of the posts I'm seeing but as a road user you have a responsibility to react to hazards and there was clear intentions the motorist was turning left. It doesn't change the fact the motorist was wrong but continuing to proceed and making little to no effort to brake/stop when you have plenty of time to do so would also put you at fault if you were to collide.

Right of way doesn't make you immune from being responsible and cycling safely at all times regardless of who's in the wrong around you.

TheHouseIRL

Based on my interpretation of the driver's behaviour at the time, as well as taking into account that they had passed me seconds earlier, I had made the decision to continue. That interpretation was primarily informed by the position that the driver stopped in prior to initiating the turn (he had stopped short of the position that drivers typically stop at to enter that car wash). He was, for whatever reason, taking a much more diagonal path than drivers typically do.

Once I observed the passenger side front wheel begin to turn, I hit the brakes, but not so hard that I would risk locking up and going over the bars. To say I made little to no effort to stop is plain wrong.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120204965#Comment_120204965

There is a law about a cyclist not overtaking on the left if the driver in that position is indicating left, it's a bit s##t especially considering the driver's behaviour (also illegal and dangerous) but the law is clear. This pretty much happened to me a couple of years ago (except I was injured) and I posted the video out of interest and it was pretty much the same consensus which I agreed with (provided the driver indicated, it wasn't clear in the video and I didn't see it if they did).

crosstownk

From what I can see the driver was indicating before passing the cyclist which seems to me that the driver intended to complete the turn knowing that the cyclist was on the left. For me, the driver was wrong in this instance but as a cyclist I wouldn't have continued up the inside on the basis of self preservation.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206664#Comment_120206664

Agreed but the cyclist was in a different lane and so I don't think the cyclist could be considered to be overtaking on the left.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206869#Comment_120206869

How else would you overtake someone?

cletus

Are cycling lanes considered separate lanes here?

magicbastarder

i'll go back to my comment about the M50. You wouldn't do that in a car.

micar

The only person overtaking here is the motorist who clearly doesn't understand risky manoeuvre like this poses on cyclists.

All motorists need to do is hold back. They simply just don't this and nor will they ever get this.

We all know it's all about getting in front and not allowing anyone delay them for even a fraction of second.

Cabaal

The biggest issue here is the car, however if you were in a car in a lane like the cyclist you wouldn't keep driving almost into the car. Or, atleast you shouldn't because its a silly thing to do.

So biggest blame is on the motorist, but the cyclist should have slowed down/stopped.

If the cyclist wanted to beep a loud horn or shout at the motorist thats another matter and it would be perfectly understandable.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207029#Comment_120207029

My point (which in hindsight didn't explain it in full) was that the original law was referring to cyclists passing on the inside but within the same lane (as we didn't have cycle paths or dual carriageways back then).

I wouldn't regard the cyclist in the above video as overtaking (aka passing on the left).

Notwithstanding that, the cyclist should have either slowed down when they saw the indicators or started screaming at the driver or probably both. Whilst they may be in the right to keep pedalling, it is not in their safety to do so.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206664#Comment_120206664

That's not the full law, it's if the driver is indicating left and will move to the left, ie. Closer to the kerb before the cyclist can overtake.

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

It's irrelevant here anyway as the op was on the cycle lane, not on the road, so the law doesn't apply. As op explained correctly, the car stopped on the road at first, giving the impression they were waiting for the cyclist to proceed, then at the last minute lurched into their path.

To imply that the cyclist should be the one apologizing here is ridiculous.

Whatever about having your wits about you on the bike which we all do, if we all held back in all of these scenarios, a. It would be a pain in the arse, and b. None of these sh1t drivers would ever learn.

The op did zero wrong here imo.

magicbastarder

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

that's explicitly what i'm not saying. my point is explicitly based around the fact that the indicating motorist does not have priority to pull into your lane; but that you'd still be in the wrong to plough on regardless.

you say 'without giving you time to react'. in the video posted, the indicator comes on at 5s into the video and the cyclist pulls alongside the car at 12s in. so the cyclist did have time to react.