Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

standardg60 · 04-02-2023 11:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203441#Comment_120203441

ROFL :-)

DaveyDave · 05-02-2023 11:46AM

This might be a surprise to some people based on some of the posts I'm seeing but as a road user you have a responsibility to react to hazards and there was clear intentions the motorist was turning left. It doesn't change the fact the motorist was wrong but continuing to proceed and making little to no effort to brake/stop when you have plenty of time to do so would also put you at fault if you were to collide.

Right of way doesn't make you immune from being responsible and cycling safely at all times regardless of who's in the wrong around you.

TheHouseIRL · 05-02-2023 03:27PM

Based on my interpretation of the driver's behaviour at the time, as well as taking into account that they had passed me seconds earlier, I had made the decision to continue. That interpretation was primarily informed by the position that the driver stopped in prior to initiating the turn (he had stopped short of the position that drivers typically stop at to enter that car wash). He was, for whatever reason, taking a much more diagonal path than drivers typically do.

Once I observed the passenger side front wheel begin to turn, I hit the brakes, but not so hard that I would risk locking up and going over the bars. To say I made little to no effort to stop is plain wrong.

TheChizler · 05-02-2023 11:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120204965#Comment_120204965

There is a law about a cyclist not overtaking on the left if the driver in that position is indicating left, it's a bit s##t especially considering the driver's behaviour (also illegal and dangerous) but the law is clear. This pretty much happened to me a couple of years ago (except I was injured) and I posted the video out of interest and it was pretty much the same consensus which I agreed with (provided the driver indicated, it wasn't clear in the video and I didn't see it if they did).

TheChizler · 06-02-2023 01:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206869#Comment_120206869

How else would you overtake someone?

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 10:29AM

i'll go back to my comment about the M50. You wouldn't do that in a car.

micar · 06-02-2023 11:54AM

The only person overtaking here is the motorist who clearly doesn't understand risky manoeuvre like this poses on cyclists.

All motorists need to do is hold back. They simply just don't this and nor will they ever get this.

We all know it's all about getting in front and not allowing anyone delay them for even a fraction of second.

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 01:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206664#Comment_120206664

That's not the full law, it's if the driver is indicating left and will move to the left, ie. Closer to the kerb before the cyclist can overtake.

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

It's irrelevant here anyway as the op was on the cycle lane, not on the road, so the law doesn't apply. As op explained correctly, the car stopped on the road at first, giving the impression they were waiting for the cyclist to proceed, then at the last minute lurched into their path.

To imply that the cyclist should be the one apologizing here is ridiculous.

Whatever about having your wits about you on the bike which we all do, if we all held back in all of these scenarios, a. It would be a pain in the arse, and b. None of these sh1t drivers would ever learn.

The op did zero wrong here imo.

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 01:37PM

To take the M50 comparison it's like saying that the indicating car has priority to pull into your lane. Sure you do what you can to avoid a collision but if a car pulls in on top of you without giving you time to react there's only one person to blame.

that's explicitly what i'm not saying. my point is explicitly based around the fact that the indicating motorist does not have priority to pull into your lane; but that you'd still be in the wrong to plough on regardless.

you say 'without giving you time to react'. in the video posted, the indicator comes on at 5s into the video and the cyclist pulls alongside the car at 12s in. so the cyclist did have time to react.

magicbastarder · 06-02-2023 01:40PM

the funny thing is that if TheHouseIRL had given some context to the video - as in 'here is what i saw and here is why i did what i did' (in the way Cram described what he'd have probably done), this debate wouldn't have started.

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 02:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207848#Comment_120207848

The car was stopped on the road though, and didn't move again until the cyclist was on top of them, and still avoided the collision.

Imo the driver was looking for the premises so never noticed the cyclist at all, stopped to check it was the right place, giving the cyclist the impression they were letting them through, then went to pull in.

Hindsight is great but I would have behaved the same as the cyclist all things considered, but still be prepared, as the op was, that the moron driving might have done what they did.

Pawwed Rig · 06-02-2023 03:58PM

I read all the comments before I watched the video and assumed that the cyclist had been taken out. They saw the car and stopped in time without getting hit.

Poor driving by the car but the guy on the bike avoided being taken out so did the right thing to protect themselves. Car driver acknowledged fault. Am I missing something?

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 09:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209235#Comment_120209235

At least we're all agreed on the poor driving aspect, which wasn't your tone in your first replies.

Having watched it several times, the car definitely stops, and even the slowing while still on the road would give the impression to anyone that they're waiting for the cyclist to pass. Hand on heart i doubt any cyclist would have read the situation any differently, if you feel you would have then you're a genius.

John_Rambo · 06-02-2023 11:20PM

As a cyclist...

would you stop safely & let the drive bully his way through & continue to do so in the future.
would you continue cautiously and make safe but obvious contact & make a point of the drivers actions (which I suspect happened)
would you continue full pelt and go over the bonnet and have a concussion with a night in hospital.

I think the driver was 100% in the wrong and I think the cyclist took the second bullet point. Hopefully the driver has learnt a lesson.

Back to the thread in general, 99.9% of the recordings show a shocking lack of driving basics from motorists and a blatant disregard for cyclists. They should be used in Garda stations, driving schools and particularly they should be shown to private bus company drivers by an authority as a "what not to do" manual for those drivers going for a licence and those drivers that have had a license for years. I think a mod from the motorist forum should sticky the thread on the motoring forum too. (although that could attract the nut jobs & turn the thread in to a moderation nightmare)

standardg60 · 06-02-2023 11:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

I think that's a great suggestion tbh

magicbastarder · 07-02-2023 09:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

answering the question for myself; i would swing out and overtake the car on the right. unless i had clear eye contact or a totally unambiguous signal from the driver that yes, they are waiting for me to pass on the left, i would not pass a motorist indicating left, on their left.

as mentioned - the video was posted with no context, so we did not know which of the three options you outline were unfolding. that's why the first thing i asked was 'why did you proceed up the inside' but with no immediate answer, that question sparked the debate.

De Bhál · 07-02-2023 12:02PM

just your classic case of the cyclist known exactly what was going to happen, proceding on, maybe even increasing the speed a tad to make sure the near collision will happen, stopping then in a safe spot within slapping distance of the car boot. Cyclist put themselves in no danger but wanted to make sure driver knew they were wrong to turn across them as it might be an child or less experienced cyclist the next time that ploughs on oblivious to the danger the driver poses.

Most cyclists, especially city commuters will have done this.

standardg60 · 07-02-2023 09:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210265#Comment_120210265

Ok, what sparked my engagement to debate was your questioning of the behaviour of the cyclist, wrongly referencing a law which doesn't apply, while not mentioning the unlawful actions of the driver whatsoever.

It's fine to say what you would have done in this instance, but that doesn't mean that everyone else who doesn't do what you would do is wrong, and that's not what the law is, otherwise every schoolkid in the country would be told that they need to leave a cycle lane and swing out into the traffic if a car wants to turn left. As correctly posted above if this was a schoolkid without the experience and abilities of the OP who was subsequently injured the driver would be 100% liable. If anyone thinks they could rock up to court and make the same arguments posted here in an effort to reduce their liability then i wish them the best of luck.

As for the overtaking on the left law, it amazes me how often it's referenced like it's Gospel. It is so ambiguous it's not worth the paper it's written on

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058261340/official-meaning-for-flashing-amber-filter-light

This thread is a good read in relation to cycle lanes and overtaking on the left and might be the best place to continue any debate.

TheHouseIRL · 07-02-2023 10:49PM

Swinging out to overtake on the right wasn't an option, as cars I had passed seconds before would have been approaching from behind (which, to be fair, weren't shown in the video).

I also don't think it's correct to say that this was caused by a lack of awareness on both sides. I was aware of the presence of the driver and their intention to turn left. I was aware of the fact that they had passed me seconds earlier, I was aware of the point at which they had slowed to almost a complete stop and how it compared to the point at which drivers typically turn into those premises. I was closely observing the movement of their front passenger side wheel and took action to avoid a collision as soon as it became clear that they were turning across my path.

CramCycle · 07-02-2023 11:07PM

It took me a second watch to realise you had freewheeled just in case and were never in any danger as you knew it was a possibility. I think alot of the discussion between magic and standard could have been left aside with a more detailed description.

I have a set of pipes on me that would raise the dead, so I would have lit up as soon as he slowed, I never understood this overtake to stop and wait, it's a stupid move. I get it in the mornings coming through my local town, they overtake into three space I left to the next car and then sometimes I get really bored and put on a show as I freewheel behind them. It's childish and achieves nothing than make me calmer.

Anyway, hopefully you woke them up a bit but I am skeptical.

standardg60 · 07-02-2023 11:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213376#Comment_120213376

Of course there was going to be following traffic OP, the advocating of swinging out into traffic from a cycle lane from lets understand it Mods of the cycling forum, one of whom doesn't find any fault with the driver yet doesn't want to discuss it any further, and that this should apply to all users of a cycle lane is frankly bizarre and potentially dangerous.

magicbastarder · 07-02-2023 11:26PM

FWIW a mod doesn't have any greater or lesser or more trustworthy opinion than anyone else; the role is to police the forum. for example, mods are not picked for the cycling forum simply because they're good cyclists*.

*except for wheelieing. if you can wheelie more than 100m, you're automatically made a mod. 50m if you can do it one handed.

standardg60 · 07-02-2023 11:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213511#Comment_120213511

Welcome back.

I get that but at the same time i think it's reasonable to assume that posters are less likely to challenge a mod's opinion in a debate.

Anyway care to respond to my quote of your post?

magicbastarder · 08-02-2023 12:01AM

Welcome back.

???

i think i've said all i need to say, probably several times over.

standardg60 · 08-02-2023 12:21AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213670#Comment_120213670

I guess that's a no then

Paddigol · 08-02-2023 11:57AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209323#Comment_120209323

I always expect a car to do what that car did in those circumstances. Any amount of time commuting by bike in Dublin teaches you that. Which is why I'd not even have been on that crappy excuse of a cycle lane, even if some posters on here would consider me using the main lane as a 'd!ck move'. But it goes to prove my point. If I happened to be in the cycle lane for whatever reason, I'd probably have done exactly what the poster here did. If I'd been taken out by the car, I'd be raging, the driver would probably end up liable, but I'd also know that the accident was partly my fault.

No incident here, so the above is purely hypothesis and no great criticism of the poster from me. Nothing more infuriating than drivers like that, especially if you're carrying a bit of speed and momentum on your commute. Hand on heart, I regularly bully bad drivers out of continuing their bad driving in circumstances like that (as in, I'm in the right and you're not running me off the road just because your in a car). But there's only one winner when you get your judgment wrong. Which, again, is why I often just take the lane and if needs be (e.g. when I know a car behind is going to try a stunt like the driver in that video) take the centre.

Not the case in this video at all, but I often see cyclists bullied off the road by cars turning left or pulling out just because the cyclist is hugging the kerb. It's not easy when you start off, and again it'll be labelled a 'd!ck move' by some, but you can avoid a lot of these incidents (again not relevant to this video as poster was in the cycle lane) by being a bit more assertive (as opposed to aggressive) in your cycling.

Paddigol · 08-02-2023 12:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213463#Comment_120213463

TBH, its coming across like your deliberately misunderstanding MB's argument. The counter argument could simply be made that you're arguing for cyclists in the OP's position to plough on straight ahead regardless. I know your not. Everyone who reads this thread probably knows your not. I think that from the OP's follow-up posts everyone now understands the position, but you're continuing to misrepresent what MB has said. From the very start of the discussion he made it clear that the driver was in the wrong.

standardg60 · 08-02-2023 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214814#Comment_120214814

Apologies if it comes across that way, it's certainly not intentional. I just thought it was unfair to start by criticising the OP and say it was crap behaviour by both.

The OP was assertive rather than reckless imo but as Weepsie says we'll just end up going in circles here so i'll leave it at that.