Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

magicbastarder

the funny thing is that if TheHouseIRL had given some context to the video - as in 'here is what i saw and here is why i did what i did' (in the way Cram described what he'd have probably done), this debate wouldn't have started.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207848#Comment_120207848

The car was stopped on the road though, and didn't move again until the cyclist was on top of them, and still avoided the collision.

Imo the driver was looking for the premises so never noticed the cyclist at all, stopped to check it was the right place, giving the cyclist the impression they were letting them through, then went to pull in.

Hindsight is great but I would have behaved the same as the cyclist all things considered, but still be prepared, as the op was, that the moron driving might have done what they did.

Pawwed Rig

I read all the comments before I watched the video and assumed that the cyclist had been taken out. They saw the car and stopped in time without getting hit.

Poor driving by the car but the guy on the bike avoided being taken out so did the right thing to protect themselves. Car driver acknowledged fault. Am I missing something?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120207786#Comment_120207786

I don't think the law contain the nuances for 2 separate lanes in terms of overtaking, but does allow for vehicular traffic having to cross off cycle lanes. Maybe it does, but when I read it it didn't seem to define that it was restricted to the one lane.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208087#Comment_120208087

The car was never once actually stopped. It slows down yes , but it's clearly begun to turn after it has safely passed.

You might be right about the driver just looking for the premises and they also might have realised the tool the turn badly .

When I'm in that situation, I'm normally hopping out of the cycle lane and overtaking on the right.

Its poor driving, but for me nothing changes the fact that its poor reading of the situation on both parties behalf and that's where I'm drawing the line.

I'll be accused of clique bait next

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209235#Comment_120209235

At least we're all agreed on the poor driving aspect, which wasn't your tone in your first replies.

Having watched it several times, the car definitely stops, and even the slowing while still on the road would give the impression to anyone that they're waiting for the cyclist to pass. Hand on heart i doubt any cyclist would have read the situation any differently, if you feel you would have then you're a genius.

John_Rambo

As a cyclist...

• would you stop safely & let the drive bully his way through & continue to do so in the future.
• would you continue cautiously and make safe but obvious contact & make a point of the drivers actions (which I suspect happened)
• would you continue full pelt and go over the bonnet and have a concussion with a night in hospital.

I think the driver was 100% in the wrong and I think the cyclist took the second bullet point. Hopefully the driver has learnt a lesson.

Back to the thread in general, 99.9% of the recordings show a shocking lack of driving basics from motorists and a blatant disregard for cyclists. They should be used in Garda stations, driving schools and particularly they should be shown to private bus company drivers by an authority as a "what not to do" manual for those drivers going for a licence and those drivers that have had a license for years. I think a mod from the motorist forum should sticky the thread on the motoring forum too. (although that could attract the nut jobs & turn the thread in to a moderation nightmare)

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

I think that's a great suggestion tbh

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

answering the question for myself; i would swing out and overtake the car on the right. unless i had clear eye contact or a totally unambiguous signal from the driver that yes, they are waiting for me to pass on the left, i would not pass a motorist indicating left, on their left.

as mentioned - the video was posted with no context, so we did not know which of the three options you outline were unfolding. that's why the first thing i asked was 'why did you proceed up the inside' but with no immediate answer, that question sparked the debate.

Weepsie

I genuinely don't this is a case of a driver bullying their way through. Lack of awareness yes, but that's on both sides. That's the last I'm saying on this.

I think there's an increasing amountof near misses that are not entirely the fault of the drivers in question and say a lot about an increasing amount of poor awareness on all parts. I too probably take the occasional risk I know I shouldn't

De Bhál

just your classic case of the cyclist known exactly what was going to happen, proceding on, maybe even increasing the speed a tad to make sure the near collision will happen, stopping then in a safe spot within slapping distance of the car boot. Cyclist put themselves in no danger but wanted to make sure driver knew they were wrong to turn across them as it might be an child or less experienced cyclist the next time that ploughs on oblivious to the danger the driver poses.

Most cyclists, especially city commuters will have done this.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210265#Comment_120210265

Ok, what sparked my engagement to debate was your questioning of the behaviour of the cyclist, wrongly referencing a law which doesn't apply, while not mentioning the unlawful actions of the driver whatsoever.

It's fine to say what you would have done in this instance, but that doesn't mean that everyone else who doesn't do what you would do is wrong, and that's not what the law is, otherwise every schoolkid in the country would be told that they need to leave a cycle lane and swing out into the traffic if a car wants to turn left. As correctly posted above if this was a schoolkid without the experience and abilities of the OP who was subsequently injured the driver would be 100% liable. If anyone thinks they could rock up to court and make the same arguments posted here in an effort to reduce their liability then i wish them the best of luck.

As for the overtaking on the left law, it amazes me how often it's referenced like it's Gospel. It is so ambiguous it's not worth the paper it's written on

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058261340/official-meaning-for-flashing-amber-filter-light

This thread is a good read in relation to cycle lanes and overtaking on the left and might be the best place to continue any debate.

TheHouseIRL

Swinging out to overtake on the right wasn't an option, as cars I had passed seconds before would have been approaching from behind (which, to be fair, weren't shown in the video).

I also don't think it's correct to say that this was caused by a lack of awareness on both sides. I was aware of the presence of the driver and their intention to turn left. I was aware of the fact that they had passed me seconds earlier, I was aware of the point at which they had slowed to almost a complete stop and how it compared to the point at which drivers typically turn into those premises. I was closely observing the movement of their front passenger side wheel and took action to avoid a collision as soon as it became clear that they were turning across my path.

CramCycle

It took me a second watch to realise you had freewheeled just in case and were never in any danger as you knew it was a possibility. I think alot of the discussion between magic and standard could have been left aside with a more detailed description.

I have a set of pipes on me that would raise the dead, so I would have lit up as soon as he slowed, I never understood this overtake to stop and wait, it's a stupid move. I get it in the mornings coming through my local town, they overtake into three space I left to the next car and then sometimes I get really bored and put on a show as I freewheel behind them. It's childish and achieves nothing than make me calmer.

Anyway, hopefully you woke them up a bit but I am skeptical.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213376#Comment_120213376

Of course there was going to be following traffic OP, the advocating of swinging out into traffic from a cycle lane from lets understand it Mods of the cycling forum, one of whom doesn't find any fault with the driver yet doesn't want to discuss it any further, and that this should apply to all users of a cycle lane is frankly bizarre and potentially dangerous.

magicbastarder

FWIW a mod doesn't have any greater or lesser or more trustworthy opinion than anyone else; the role is to police the forum. for example, mods are not picked for the cycling forum simply because they're good cyclists*.

*except for wheelieing. if you can wheelie more than 100m, you're automatically made a mod. 50m if you can do it one handed.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213511#Comment_120213511

Welcome back.

I get that but at the same time i think it's reasonable to assume that posters are less likely to challenge a mod's opinion in a debate.

Anyway care to respond to my quote of your post?

magicbastarder

Welcome back.

???

i think i've said all i need to say, probably several times over.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213670#Comment_120213670

I guess that's a no then

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209323#Comment_120209323

I always expect a car to do what that car did in those circumstances. Any amount of time commuting by bike in Dublin teaches you that. Which is why I'd not even have been on that crappy excuse of a cycle lane, even if some posters on here would consider me using the main lane as a 'd!ck move'. But it goes to prove my point. If I happened to be in the cycle lane for whatever reason, I'd probably have done exactly what the poster here did. If I'd been taken out by the car, I'd be raging, the driver would probably end up liable, but I'd also know that the accident was partly my fault.

No incident here, so the above is purely hypothesis and no great criticism of the poster from me. Nothing more infuriating than drivers like that, especially if you're carrying a bit of speed and momentum on your commute. Hand on heart, I regularly bully bad drivers out of continuing their bad driving in circumstances like that (as in, I'm in the right and you're not running me off the road just because your in a car). But there's only one winner when you get your judgment wrong. Which, again, is why I often just take the lane and if needs be (e.g. when I know a car behind is going to try a stunt like the driver in that video) take the centre.

Not the case in this video at all, but I often see cyclists bullied off the road by cars turning left or pulling out just because the cyclist is hugging the kerb. It's not easy when you start off, and again it'll be labelled a 'd!ck move' by some, but you can avoid a lot of these incidents (again not relevant to this video as poster was in the cycle lane) by being a bit more assertive (as opposed to aggressive) in your cycling.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213463#Comment_120213463

TBH, its coming across like your deliberately misunderstanding MB's argument. The counter argument could simply be made that you're arguing for cyclists in the OP's position to plough on straight ahead regardless. I know your not. Everyone who reads this thread probably knows your not. I think that from the OP's follow-up posts everyone now understands the position, but you're continuing to misrepresent what MB has said. From the very start of the discussion he made it clear that the driver was in the wrong.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209323#Comment_120209323

The car is never stopped while on the road and while it has begun to turn. You can see the wheels move in the video, right up until the op is at about the rear wheel. Do you not slow to take a turn? Do you just swing in? I actually don't want to know, because its going around and around now.

And again, as paddigol notes, plenty of us have been in more than enough urban traffic to know what is going to happen there.

Cabaal

What could potentially happen here, the car basically came to a stop and you could easily be fooled into thinking they are doing so to allow the bike to pass.

I've had cars pass me and then stop to allow me to pass before turning in,

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214814#Comment_120214814

Apologies if it comes across that way, it's certainly not intentional. I just thought it was unfair to start by criticising the OP and say it was crap behaviour by both.

The OP was assertive rather than reckless imo but as Weepsie says we'll just end up going in circles here so i'll leave it at that.

Seth Brundle

Several pointless close passes yesterday and today along my commute, but I only uploaded two of them - both unnecessary (as an opportunity to safely pass was seconds ahead) and both with oncoming traffic. Note that I say the F-word in both vids

This one yesterday in Saggart with a driver & trailer overtaking me...

https://youtu.be/byYfo1-yQVw

...and this one along Stacumny Lane between Lucan & Celbridge. Not even sure if the driver lifted off the throttle as he passed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHUBlDVYDo

munsterfan2

Just in case all you townies think we have it easy out in the sticks :-)

https://streamable.com/h6wasz

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218913#Comment_120218913

That first one is just mind boggling, like what’s the point at all, you’re not even holding him up

Seth Brundle

I dunno. Maybe it's a combination MGIF and knowing that although it will be tight, they'll be ok and sure legally nothing will happen anyhow

Jakey Rolling

Dumbfounded today by this old wan who decided it was fine to swerve onto my side of the road to pass out a cyclist. And still not giving 1 metre space. I had to come to a dead stop to avoid collision. It's just the case that some drivers seem to panic when they have to deal with slow moving cyclists. Granted he was hugging the kerb, and may have discouraged this pass if he'd been more assertive and owned the lane. FYI, this area next to Cahir Castle is due to be redeveloped - the whole stretch should be made pedestrian priority, only a matter of time until some tourist is injured.

magicbastarder

In a weird turn of events, I just gave my number to a motorist in a supposed 'cyclist'/motorist collision, to support the motorist. He was pushing two bikes on foot and ran one at low speed into her car, which was stationary, then clearly demanded she get out to swap details. I was watching the whole thing from the bus stop across the road.

I rang the gardai because it was clear fraud, but they were not interested.

I was watching the lad with the bikes because I'm fairly sure he checked to see if the door of a delivery van parked nearby was unlocked, before he started the little charade.