Rosslare Container Migrants disappear from Direct Provision Centre

Boggles

wellwhynot wrote: »

I believe it is due to a number of factors; language skills, prejudice/racism, cultural differences, high welfare rates and levels of education.

I don’t care what your race, colour or creed is if you come here to work and applied through the legal channels you are more than welcome. Genuine asylum seekers also more than welcome too and let’s help with all the above barriers.

Bogus asylum seekers costing us 100’s of millions in DP and then more as they go on welfare, have a safe flight home.

Can you imagine if we had efficient processing and timely deportations? We would have so much more to spend on integrating the real asylum seekers. There would be none of this dumping in towns in the middle of night and this thread (and many like this) would not exist. The governments inefficiency on this has divided the country.

There is certainly "bogus" asylum seekers but just because they don't meet our extremely strict criteria does not necessarily mean they are all bogus.

The vast majority of them are fleeing absolute horrific conditions.

I agree though the process certainly needs to be improved, I have a read a couple of judicial reviews where it was absolutely obvious that the people who made the decision were wholly under-qualified.

wellwhynot

Boggles wrote: »

If you are discussing immigration the vast vast vast majority of which are not Refugees but you constantly focus on the thin edge of the wedge in a negative fashion, you will be painting your own portrait, that's on you no one else.

But this thread is about asylum seekers not legal immigrants hence the focus on refugees.

Boggles

wellwhynot wrote: »

But this thread is about asylum seekers not legal immigrants hence the focus on refugees.

Well tell the poster I was responding to, he is the one who was banging on about immigration.

Also this thread isn't about Asylum Seekers, it's about a bunch of Kurds who came to the wrong country and have now left the state apparently.

suicide_circus

wellwhynot wrote: »

But this thread is about asylum seekers not legal immigrants hence the focus on refugees.

the reason the two are being conflated is that the calls in the media to increase the population to pre famine levels have been linked to these asylum seekers on the boat from france for some reason

bigroad

Boggles wrote: »

Well tell the poster I was responding to, he is the one who was banging on about immigration.

Also this thread isn't about Asylum Seekers, it's about a bunch of Kurds who came to the wrong country and have now left the state apparently.

Are we sure they are a bunch of Kurds as you say.

road_high

Boggles wrote: »

There is certainly "bogus" asylum seekers but just because they don't meet our extremely strict criteria does not necessarily mean they are all bogus.

The vast majority of them are fleeing absolute horrific conditions.

I agree though the process certainly needs to be improved, I have a read a couple of judicial reviews where it was absolutely obvious that the people who made the decision were wholly under-qualified.

What "horrific conditions" are our top three Asylum applicants (Albania, Georgia and South Africa) fleeing, exactly?

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

The vast majority of them are fleeing absolute horrific conditions.

Not according to the relevant departments, nor even our own Taoiseach, because the vast majority of so called "asylum seekers" from places like Georgia, Albania and many African countries are rejected in their applications.

Wibbs

suicide_circus wrote: »

the reason the two are being conflated is that the calls in the media to increase the population to pre famine levels have been linked to these asylum seekers on the boat from france for some reason

Indeed and there is no "conspiracy" required. It's all down to a current economic model that insists on more consumers and more cheap labour to produce the stuff for the consumers. Vested interests just rely on the naive and the useful idiots, many of whom also have vested interests to promote the drive.

wellwhynot

Boggles wrote: »

There is certainly "bogus" asylum seekers but just because they don't meet our extremely strict criteria does not necessarily mean they are all bogus.

The vast majority of them are fleeing absolute horrific conditions.

I agree though the process certainly needs to be improved, I have a read a couple of judicial reviews where it was absolutely obvious that the people who made the decision were wholly under-qualified.

We don’t know what they are or are not fleeing. I think the only people who know are the Departments dealing with it. I do know that a quick look at the stats last year show the vast majority left countries that are not at war.

It is cases like the Nigerian, appealed recently in the High Court (€€€€€), who claims that although he is straight, he was presumed gay because he flat shared with men. He won. Couldn’t he perhaps have moved house instead of coming here and costing us thousands/a million? This type of nonsense is pushing ordinary people over the edge.

Boggles

road_high wrote: »

What "horrific conditions" are our top three Asylum applicants (Albania, Georgia and South Africa) fleeing, exactly?

You do know what majority means right?

South Africa isn't in the top 3 and Georgian and Albanian asylum seekers is a recent phenomenon based largely on changes to Visas in other countries, virtually all of them get rejected.

suicide_circus

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed and there is no "conspiracy" required. It's all down to a current economic model that insists on more consumers and more cheap labour to produce the stuff for the consumers. Vested interests just rely on the naive and the useful idiots, many of whom also have vested interests to promote the drive.

possibly the most amazing aspect of this is that its a preoccupation of "the left". Pro EU, pro importation of cheap labour, pro additional pressure on crumbling services.

road_high

Boggles wrote: »

You do know what majority means right?

South Africa isn't in the top 3 and Georgian and Albanian asylum seekers is a recent phenomenon based largely on changes to Visas in other countries, virtually all of them get rejected.

I asked what "horrific conditions" these people are fleeing- and you didn't answer me.
Also appears from your second answer that you agree these aren't fleeing any "horrific conditions" at all. Which is telling.

Boggles

road_high wrote: »

I asked what "horrific conditions" these people are fleeing- and you didn't answer me.
Also appears from your second answer that you agree these aren't fleeing any "horrific conditions" at all. Which is telling.

Your lack of basic comprehension is.

You think the majority of asylum seekers are risking their lives to leave their ideal Utopian existence to rot in DP for years and eventually be issued with a deportation order for the crack?

jmayo

Del.Monte wrote: »

A number of the migrants found on a ship to Rosslare last Thursday have left a Dublin direct provision centre and are believed to be heading for the UK. You couldn't make this stuff up. Imagine arriving illegally in Australia and just being allowed to wander off untraced into the country.


I'm sure that the Gardai know everything about their affiliations to ISIS etc. after talking to them for a few hours at Rosslare. :rolleyes:

I don't know why you are surprised ?

Remember that gent up in Dundalk that bumped into the Gardai?
You know the guy with no documentation and no identification as to who or what he was.
You know the guy that the Gardai sent on his way to Dublin to look up asylum centre, someone or somewhere that seems to deal with someone that has no right to be in the country.
You know the guy that had the usual mental breakdown and went round killing innocent people.

Yeah now you got it.

Our authorities would let Osama bin Laden through, hell they would give him a lift somewhere more convenient for him.

Boggles wrote: »

Well tell the poster I was responding to, he is the one who was banging on about immigration.

Also this thread isn't about Asylum Seekers, it's about a bunch of Kurds who came to the wrong country and have now left the state apparently.

When is an asylum seeker not an asylum seeker ?

What exactly were those Kurds?
Migrants, asylum seekers, refugees, lost tourists ?

Or is just what you say they are to suit your argument?

atticu

Boggles wrote: »

Also this thread isn't about Asylum Seekers, it's about a bunch of Kurds who came to the wrong country and have now left the state apparently.

Any proof these people are Kurds?

Also, how do you know that they came to the wrong country?
Have they all left Ireland?

road_high

Boggles wrote: »

Your lack of basic comprehension is.

You think the majority of asylum seekers are risking their lives to leave their ideal Utopian existence to rot in DP for years and eventually be issued with a deportation order for the crack?

That's why I'm asking you to spell things out and you won't- I wonder why!!

And who said they are? I'm merely asking why our now top applicants countries are from safe countries. If the DP is grim as you allege. And why has the rate of applicants in DP risen so exponentially if it's so bad?
Again you won't answer me. But no surprises there given your previous form.

road_high

atticu wrote: »

Any proof these people are Kurds?

Also, how do you know that they came to the wrong country?
Have they all left Ireland?

We don't verifiabbly know who any of these people actually are without bona fide documentation. Which they duly destroy anyway pre entering.
And we have no idea if they've left Ireland or not, none whatseover.

atticu

road_high wrote: »

We don't verifiabbly know who any of these people actually are without bona fide documentation. Which they duly destroy anyway pre entering.
And we have no idea if they've left Ireland or not, none whatseover.

Thanks for that.
For a moment there, I thought that Boggels had some information that the rest of us didn’t have.

Gynoid

Boggles wrote: »

Your lack of basic comprehension is.

You think the majority of asylum seekers are risking their lives to leave their ideal Utopian existence to rot in DP for years and eventually be issued with a deportation order for the crack?

If we take refugees, and I think we should, we should take those people whose loved ones, homes and livelihoods have been destroyed by war. They are easy to find, they live in horrific camps near Libya, they live in Yemen being starved and bombed by our trading partners, the Saudis. For example.
We should immediately and determinedly return any give it a go bowsies who did not like life as it is down on the farm in Albania or Algeria or Nigeria or wherever they dont fancy being, all those for whom the trek to Europe has become a rite of passage into manhood, because otherwise those bowsies will be taking the ultimately limited places and money that we should certainly be offering to people who have genuinely fled for their lives or who are starving in war zones.

I am nòt going to accept the title of racist for thinking this no matter how often it is thrown around.

wellwhynot

Boggles wrote: »

Your lack of basic comprehension is.

You think the majority of asylum seekers are risking their lives to leave their ideal Utopian existence to rot in DP for years and eventually be issued with a deportation order for the crack?

Why do the majority bypass other countries and come only to the West? They are attracted by what they see online, greater freedoms, liberal societies and capitalism.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

You think the majority of asylum seekers are risking their lives to leave their ideal Utopian existence to rot in DP for years and eventually be issued with a deportation order for the crack?

They're leaving countries with little or no social safety net hoping to make a few quid in a country with more prospects and far more social safety nets. They're economic migrants, no more no less. Almost certainly low or no skilled or they'd stay home, or enter this country by legal means, which quite the number of people do. Our health service has quite the number and they didn't need to hide in containers or take boats across the Mediterranean.

Fann Linn

Why would anyone ever apply for a visa for this place. Just rack up to Dublin airport or port , claim asylum and Gardai point you to the nearest exit.
Away ye go lads!


A joke of a country.

road_high

Gynoid wrote: »

If we take refugees, and I think we should, we should take those people whose loved ones, homes and livelihoods have been destroyed by war. They are easy to find, they live in horrific camps near Libya, they live in Yemen being starved and bombed by our trading partners, the Saudis. For example.
We should immediately and determinedly return any give it a go bowsies who did not like life as it is down on the farm in Albania or Algeria or Nigeria or wherever they dont fancy being, all those for whom the trek to Europe gas become a rite of passage into manhood, because otherwise those bowsies will be taking the ultimately limited places and money that we should certainly be offering to people who have genuinely fled for their lives or who are starving in war zones.

I am noing to accept the title of racist for thinking this no matter how iften it is thrown around.

That's the original premise of real Asylum Seekers and Refugees- those genuinely fleeing real war- their homes and lives destroyed. And i agree we morally should look after these people as we can afford.

But what's happened is all that's been turned on its head in recent years with an endless stream of bogus basically economic mogrants chancing their arms as they know how easy it is to get in here and stay- if that means living free gratias in a DP Centre for years so be it- it's still likely far better than the economic conditions they've left. They are ruining it for the genuine ones and completely blurring the lines between what's genuine and not.

wellwhynot

Fann Linn wrote: »

Why would anyone ever apply for a visa for this place. Just rack up to Dublin airport or port , claim asylum and Gardai point you to the nearest exit.
Away ye go lads!


A joke of a country.

No Gardaí arrange your transport to the nearest hotel all expenses paid.

road_high

Wibbs wrote: »

They're leaving countries with little or no social safety net hoping to make a few quid in a country with more prospects and far more social safety nets. They're economic migrants, no more no less. Almost certainly low or no skilled or they'd stay home, or enter this country by legal means, which quite the number of people do. Our health service has quite the number and they didn't need to hide in containers or take boats across the Mediterranean.

Living in a DP centre (for free)- all food, health, heat etc paid for plus a small weekly allowance is likely a massive step up in terms of provision for a many of these. Such is the gulf in wealth between Ireland and the migrant donor nations. But that's not our problem or fault whatsoever. Far too many people being born into circumstances that can't support them in certain countires- basiclaly not neough birth control- but again the holier than thou brigade will lable you racist instantly for poinint out such basic facts of life.

Boggles

road_high wrote: »

basiclaly not neough birth control- but again the holier than thou brigade will lable you racist instantly for poinint out such basic facts of life.

I imagine they would be against birth control.

Gynoid

Boggles wrote: »

I imagine they would be against birth control.

You guys are the new religious, didnt ya hear

1641

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed and there is no "conspiracy" required. It's all down to a current economic model that insists on more consumers and more cheap labour to produce the stuff for the consumers. Vested interests just rely on the naive and the useful idiots, many of whom also have vested interests to promote the drive.

Who are the "vested interests" though? The vegetable farmer in North Dublin loking for labour? The cafe/restaurant/pub looking for staff? Me looking for someone to paint the house? Etc Etc. Sure there are also employers on a larger scale.


What is the alternative economic model and is it one that we (the voters) want? A socialist style command economy? That didn't work out too well. The hippies tried another alternative with their communes and that didn't catch on. Sure there are alternative models of self sufficiency, say in the remote Amazon. But while some may fetishise it, I don't think anyone advocates we adopt it.
I think you will find that most people have a "vested interest" in the current economic model - even if they don't like all of its consequences. And one of those consequences can be labour shortages (another is cyclical recession). Even Hungary (and its neighbours), despite the anti-immigration rhetoric, is now having to come to terms with this. The contrast between the rhetoric and the reality hardly seems conducive to a success story, though.

"In Hungary, the EU’s fastest-growing economy, there were 49,500 work permits held by non-EU citizens in 2018, more than double the previous year’s figure. In 2016, there were about 7,300. While Ukrainians held more than half of them, Vietnamese, Indians and Mongolians are now among the groups growing quickest."
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-24/orban-and-europe-s-other-anti-immigrant-leaders-have-a-secret

"According to the statistics institute, almost 50,000 work permits were granted to foreigners in the first eight months of 2019, compared to 61,000 during all of 2018.
The statistics institute said foreign workers mainly hailed from India, Vietnam, China, Mongolia, Ukraine and Romania. It also said foreigners were employed in agriculture - Indian workers, for example, mostly work for dairy farms - as well as in the industrial sector.
Experts have told local media outlets that the Hungarian economy needs foreign workers due to a shrinking population and the growing number of Hungarians leaving the country. Over the last few years, 600,000 Hungarians have reportedly emigrated, the experts said."
https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/19841/in-orban-s-hungary-more-migrants-due-to-labor-shortage


Maybe Hungary could erect walls and fences to keep its own people from emigrating ? Again that was not an unmitigated success in the past.

Del.Monte

Vested interests include the developers and failed 'hoteliers' being paid a fortune to provide accommodation in their rubbish hotels; people looking for cheap labour; charities and NGOs As for getting somebody to paint your house or harvest vegetables - give me a break. I know for fact that in this neck of the woods students looking for strawberry picking jobs the last few years have had their work cut out due to cheap foreign labour.

And don't come back with "Irish people don't want to do these jobs anymore".

Ulysses Gaze

Del.Monte wrote: »

Vested interests include the developers and failed 'hoteliers' being paid a fortune to provide accommodation in their rubbish hotels; people looking for cheap labour; charities and NGOs As for getting somebody to paint your house or harvest vegetables - give me a break. I know for fact that in this neck of the woods students looking for strawberry picking jobs the last few years have had their work cut out due to cheap foreign labour.

And don't come back with "Irish people don't want to do these jobs anymore".

Or the fallacy that we need them to "pay for our pensions."