Dirty, dreary, expensive, nothing to do

Elmer Blooker

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

Which is why the project has stalled. I was referring to the successful construction of roads, almost all of which take place in rural areas, given that urban presupposes a road.



Lol, pedestrianise Merrion Road?



Oh dear...



You really don't know what you're talking about. The BT car park only exits at the bottom of SWS and could easily turn cars back to Exchequer/Wicklow. Drury Street Car Park is in Drury Street!

Is 'oh dear' the best you can up with? If Lisbon can do it we could do it.
Arriving back in Dublin airport after a visit to a functional European city is an embarrassment.

Is 'you don't know what you're talking about' the best you can come up with?
SW Street will never be pedestrianised because of access to the car parks, you're nit picking.
I never mentioned Merrion Road but if you're in favour of turning it into somewhere as ugly and soulless as Parnell Street or North King Street thats ok. Road widening was tried in the 70s and was a failure as it just moves the congestion to somewhere else.

suicide_circus

Dublin's public transport is the worst i've encountered in western and central Europe.

Stop moaning ffs

The one way system in the city too is the first and biggest piece of evidence that the center should be pedestrianised.

wakka12

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dublin's public transport is the worst i've encountered in western and central Europe.

I actually dont know much about transport infrastructure in UK cities. But at a cursory glance at least, big northern cities like Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool dont seem to have better transport than Dublin does?

Idbatterim

suicide_circus wrote: »

Dublin's public transport is the worst i've encountered in western and central Europe.

what are you talking about? sure arent the glacial pace buses enough? According to the country folk, we have great transport here. Two mickey mouse glacial light rail lines and a heavy rail line built hundreds of years ago. Its funny! According to the culchies, we have great transport, compared to any continental city its scale, its a total disgrace...

Realt Dearg Sec

Idbatterim wrote: »

what are you talking about? sure arent the glacial pace buses enough? According to the country folk, we have great transport here. Two mickey mouse glacial light rail lines and a heavy rail line built hundreds of years ago. Its funny! According to the culchies, we have great transport, compared to any continental city its scale, its a total disgrace...

Who on this thread said the public transport is great? Or did you just make that up and now you're angry at the culchies in your head?

Muahahaha

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

But anyone who can't see the charm of Dublin, its magnificent, still-living history, its incredible bay that is the envy of any city in Europe though we don't make nearly enough of it

Dublin bay is indeed something unique and underutilised. But when DCC go and plonk a sewerage plant and incinerator down there it will never be developed to its potential. iirc they are planning some 4,000 apartments down that way in Ringend, the new owners will get some shock when they smell that sewerage wafting across their balconies.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I actually really like Capel St. It's just a shame they have f**king parking on both sides of such a narrow st. Combined with the eternal traffic jam down the middle of the street it really takes away from the good things about the street.

Same here, the parking all along ruins what could be a really nice street. Much of the parking should be removed but at 3 euro an hour DCC is not going to give up that constant revenue easily.

cj maxx

I haven't followed this thread. Is the OP a description of Dublin from some travel guide?

Ready4Boarding

cjmc wrote: »

I haven't followed this thread. Is the OP a description of Dublin from some travel guide?

Mumsnet forum discussion, reported in the Irish Times

Realt Dearg Sec

Muahahaha wrote: »

Dublin bay is indeed something unique and underutilised. But when DCC go and plonk a sewerage plant and incinerator down there it will never be developed to its potential. iirc they are planning some 4,000 apartments down that way in Ringend, the new owners will get some shock when they smell that sewerage wafting across their balconies.

I think whether you love or hate Dublin the consensus is that it is administered abysmally. The bay is wasted on the DCC.

Short-sighted decision making has defined the city's development since the 1700s, at least. The current state of Capel Street is a particular shame when you consider its historical significance. There was a time when it was the main street in Dublin, home to a Catholic mercantile class. The construction of the big estates further east, and the creation of the Custom House led to its decline. But when they built Parliament Street and Grattan Bridge there was a pretty cool vision involved: a wide sweeping street leading up to a grand official building (City Hall, architecturally massively underrated). This was long, long before cities like Paris got around to utilising that kind of aesthetic. But Capel Street was allowed to sink into decline and mediocrity. I love the restaurants along there now, it's a testament to what's possible when something is allowed to grow organically instead of through planning a "cultural quarter" or some other such gentrifying codology. But the parking situation is a reminder of the kind of decision making that goes into such places.

As another example, there's a plan afoot now to replace the James Joyce house on Usher's Island (the setting of The Dead, the greatest short story in the English language) into a hostel. I mean, when you're dealing with decision-making like that, you can only roll your eyes.

John_Rambo

So everyone agrees that Dublin needs massive investment then?

Money needs to be directed back in to the city to build a metro, to pay for a huge clean up, homeless solution, housing solution, improved tourist facilities, retractable awnings/rain covers on the streets, improved cycle and pedestrian infrastructure, pedestrianisation, public plazas etc....

Do you think the rural TD's will let that happen???

Elmer Blooker

Muahahaha wrote: »

Same here, the parking all along ruins what could be a really nice street. Much of the parking should be removed but at 3 euro an hour DCC is not going to give up that constant revenue easily.

Parnell Street was turned into a dual carriageway to get traffic quicker to gridlocked Capel Street, whats done is done but the problem is the DCC still see road widening as a solution when it is obvious to anyone it just moves the congestion elsewhere.
Same with Clanbrassil Street which is congested at either end of the dual carriageway.

Money needs to be directed back in to the city to build a metro

I would support a big hike in property tax if it was guaranteed to stay in Dublin and not disappear into a black hole.

meeeeh

John_Rambo wrote: »

So everyone agrees that Dublin needs massive investment then?

Money needs to be directed back in to the city to build a metro, to pay for a huge clean up, homeless solution, housing solution, improved tourist facilities, retractable awnings/rain covers on the streets, improved cycle and pedestrian infrastructure, pedestrianisation, public plazas etc....

Do you think the rural TD's will let that happen???

You can blame rural td's as far as I know is usually traders and locals complaining when alternative traffic arrangements are suggested. A good beginning would be to charge public servants or any other employees for parking (ban free parking as a job perk), then you could look at closing certain areas for motorised traffic except for public transport and so on. That has nothing to do with rural tds but with the fact every Dublin councillor or td seems to be elected on basis of how many changes they resist.

John_Rambo

Ministers are lobbied intensively by rural TDs whenever urban investment plans are unveiled and that's for any urban area, Limerick, Cork, Dublin, Waterford etc...

Professor Genius

badabing106 wrote: »

If that is the answer, what is the question?

Wow check out this post by a poster called louis on broadsheet, LMDGA!


Let’s knock off the B.S. and try and be a bit honest here. Dublin as a capital is still a bit of a dump (not as bad as it was in the 80’s, but still a dump) Yes the nightlife is good, but strip that back and think about it objectively and critically, and pretty soon you realise that it’s not much better than Bucharest.

The problem with the city is that there’s a serious absence of civic pride, and I blame that on three parties (1) Central Government for lack of investment (2) City Council for lack of taste and intelligence (3) Locals who have this romanticised version of the “Dirty Old Town” and row against any suggested improvement (if there are any?)

There are lots that can and should be done to improve the place, the problem being that the likes of Failte Ireland are still flogging the same old horse they were flogging thirty years ago (the Book of Kells and the Ardagh chalice)

I’m sorry to have to say this, but Dublin is no better than a drab town in the north of England.

So let me make a few observations as a foreigner who’s lived here for a long-time.

(1) No one outside of Ireland gives two sh1ts about Easter 1916 or anything related to it as a tourist attraction.
(2) Viewing The Book of Kells is Boring waste of time.
(3) Templebar is a dive, and not even the locals bother with it.
(4) The Guinness Store House is limited to people who like a drink and not for families. It’s also set in a fairly rough part of town, as was recently demonstrated.
(5) The Poolbeg Chimney’s are not and never will be an attraction for a tourist, particularly for anyone who grew up in an industrial city, where stacks like that were a dime a dozen.
(6) Leaving genuine homelessness aside, there’s a small battalion of professional beggars on the streets of the capital.
(7) Placing an injection room facility near a “tourist attraction” is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard. Please note I’m all for harm reduction.
(8) The paving of the Grafton Street Quarter is nearly taking as long as the building of Berlin’s new airport!
(9) One Luke Kelly statue was enough, two is overkill considering few people under fifty knows who he was, especially foreign tourists.
(10) A city should be safe for tourists, yet the cops are strangely absent on the ground, particularly in the core tourist areas

So what do tourists want?

(1) Put simply they want interesting, entertaining things to do and see that are affordable. Dublin’s free museums are quite good, but could be so much better.

(2) Hire “Meow Wolf” and ask them to build a world class attraction like they created in Santa Fe. If you don’t know it or never been to it, check it out.

(3) Where’s the huge statue of Gulliver? Something so obviously missing from the city, it beggars belief? Build one, and put a miniature Lilliput around it…..and do it tastefully!

(4) And having dealt with one famous writer’s contribution to world literature, how about getting rid of that giant hypodermic needle on O’Connell street and rebuild the pillar with the viewing platform (yes it actually paid for itself) and put Oscar Wilde’s “Happy Prince” on it. If you don’t know the story, read it. And if the usual hard-leftie republicans kick-up ask them if they ever read a bedtime story to their little princesses (or taken them to see Frozen!)

(5) Refurbish the Rutland Fountain, its a disgrace that it’s left in its current condition. And if some half-witted architect graduate from UCD shouts “Pastiche” ….cover him in fox scent and send him to Shelbourne Dog Track on a wet Thursday in November :-)

(6) Demolish those eyesores on the Poolbeg peninsula and use the space for something truly breathtaking that could become a real symbol of the city.

(7) Make Halloween a true city-wide festival and market the hell out of it abroad…. the Bram Stoker festival is drab, characterless and boring.

(8) Build an opera house. It may not be my cup of tea, but seeing the opera lovers pile into your local omniplex and spending good money, means there’s a market. If anything it will add to the city.

(9) Same for ballet, there’s a market. If you build a ballet hall, they will come.

(10) Encourage people to live in the city, including the one’s with money. There are magnificent houses on Merrion Square, Fitzwilliam Square an even Mountjoy that are subdivided into small offices. Seriously, what an utter waste?

Sounds like you need a fap you relieve the stress

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-city-council-4-4905198-Nov2019/

Dublin losing out on more money. This isn't going to help. TBH I can't see much changing in the city in my lifetime, just more chaotic brainless development and terrible infrastructure. There's no way that metro is coming any time close to the predicted 2027 date, sure the whole thing will be scrapped in the next resesh.

meeeeh

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ministers are lobbied intensively by rural TDs whenever urban investment plans are unveiled and that's for any urban area, Limerick, Cork, Dublin, Waterford etc...

You can blame everything on rural TDs if you want to but what does that say about TDs Dubliners elect if rural TDs have such a major influence on everything. Maybe Ireland is unique and nothing can be done but I don't know a European country with bigger enthusiasm for cars in city and town centres.

Thelonious Monk

meeeeh wrote: »

You can blame everything on rural TDs if you want to but what does that say about TDs Dubliners elect if rural TDs have such a major influence on everything. Maybe Ireland is unique and nothing can be done but I don't know a European country with bigger enthusiasm for cars in city and town centres.

Right but as the people who drive around the city centre always say, put in a decent public transport system and they'll use that. It's a bit chicken and eggy. All I can say is we wont be getting decent public transport any time soon, there's no political will or leadership to get these things done, on top of parish pump politics and Nimbyism.

John_Rambo

meeeeh wrote: »

You can blame everything on rural TDs if you want to but what does that say about TDs Dubliners elect if rural TDs have such a major influence on everything. Maybe Ireland is unique and nothing can be done but I don't know a European country with bigger enthusiasm for cars in city and town centres.

Agreed on the cars. I've been lobbying my TD regarding the reduction of cars in my own village, let alone the city. My point remains valid on rural TD's, they don't like investment in urban areas.

Stop moaning ffs

We’re a medieval town with roads that naturally evolved to herd cattle down to ships is what I was taught. It’s just not built for the scale of traffic it endures. And everything being funneled through o Connell st to this day is just bonkers.

farmchoice

John_Rambo wrote: »

Agreed on the cars. I've been lobbying my TD regarding the reduction of cars in my own village, let alone the city. My point remains valid on rural TD's, they don't like investment in urban areas.

could you give an example of a time when rural td's voted against a party whip to vote against investment in dublin?

i'm not saying it hasn't happened but i cannot think of a policy didn't proceed because it lost a vote in the dail in which rural td's from the governing party came together to vote against a government proposal on an infrastructure investment.
obviously you are aware of a number with cases in where this happened.

Thelonious Monk

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We’re a medieval town with roads that naturally evolved to herd cattle down to ships is what I was taught. It’s just not built for the scale of traffic it endures. And everything being funneled through o Connell st to this day is just bonkers.

It's funny because what you normally hear is "It's a medieval town the streets weren't built for bicycles", but they seem to think it's ok for cars.

meeeeh

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Right but as the people who drive around the city centre always say, put in a decent public transport system and they'll use that. It's a bit chicken and eggy. All I can say is we wont be getting decent public transport any time soon, there's no political will or leadership to get these things done, on top of parish pump politics and Nimbyism.

I don't know but I usually park at Heuston and use whatever I need because life is too short to deal with Dublin traffic. And I hate public transport. I think cities need mayors who are voted in by the whole population not just their local area and on the basis of programme they try to implement with the help of council. It's not just about big infrastructure projects it's also about the vision of the city. Not about how much Guinness is given away at Mansion house.

Stop moaning ffs

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's funny because what you normally hear is "It's a medieval town the streets weren't built for bicycles", but they seem to think it's ok for cars.

I thought Dublin back up til the 50s or so had free bikes provided by the corpo no? O Connell st used to have huge bike racks all the way up the middle. And it was done away with once the car took over

Did I imagine that? Sure I’ve seen pics

Thelonious Monk

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I thought Dublin back up til the 50s or so had free bikes provided by the corpo no? O Connell st used to have huge bike racks all the way up the middle. And it was done away with once the car took over

Did I imagine that? Sure I’ve seen pics

If you see old footage of Dublin, there were far far more bikes on the streets, even in the 50s/60s.

Stop moaning ffs

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you see old footage of Dublin, there were far far more bikes on the streets, even in the 50s/60s.

Saw a lovely clip in color the other day on FB from the 50s and you’re 100% right. Next to no cars. All bikes. One lovely shot of outside the long hall on George’s stand a bike sitting outside and another chap pulls up leaves the bike and wanders in for a pint.


Looks at Dublin now where you can’t even leave a bike alone without it being robbed

Ready4Boarding

So what do tourists want?

(1) Put simply they want interesting, entertaining things to do and see that are affordable. Dublin’s free museums are quite good, but could be so much better.

(2) Hire “Meow Wolf” and ask them to build a world class attraction like they created in Santa Fe. If you don’t know it or never been to it, check it out.

(3) Where’s the huge statue of Gulliver? Something so obviously missing from the city, it beggars belief? Build one, and put a miniature Lilliput around it…..and do it tastefully!

(4) And having dealt with one famous writer’s contribution to world literature, how about getting rid of that giant hypodermic needle on O’Connell street and rebuild the pillar with the viewing platform (yes it actually paid for itself) and put Oscar Wilde’s “Happy Prince” on it. If you don’t know the story, read it. And if the usual hard-leftie republicans kick-up ask them if they ever read a bedtime story to their little princesses (or taken them to see Frozen!)

(5) Refurbish the Rutland Fountain, its a disgrace that it’s left in its current condition. And if some half-witted architect graduate from UCD shouts “Pastiche” ….cover him in fox scent and send him to Shelbourne Dog Track on a wet Thursday in November :-)

(6) Demolish those eyesores on the Poolbeg peninsula and use the space for something truly breathtaking that could become a real symbol of the city.

(7) Make Halloween a true city-wide festival and market the hell out of it abroad…. the Bram Stoker festival is drab, characterless and boring.

(8) Build an opera house. It may not be my cup of tea, but seeing the opera lovers pile into your local omniplex and spending good money, means there’s a market. If anything it will add to the city.

(9) Same for ballet, there’s a market. If you build a ballet hall, they will come.

(10) Encourage people to live in the city, including the one’s with money. There are magnificent houses on Merrion Square, Fitzwilliam Square an even Mountjoy that are subdivided into small offices. Seriously, what an utter waste?

A huge statue of Gulliver?! I do think we're under-appreciative of some of our literally heritage, but that's a bit insane. And almost impossible to do tastefully, as prescribed.

Grand Canal Theatre seems perfectly suited to meeting whatever demand there is for ballet and opera.

So what else do tourists want? For the Rutland Fountain to be refurbished. For more people to live in the city. For development of Poolbeg. They'll be flocking in no time!

I do, however, love the idea of what Meow Wolf did in Santa Fe and Me You Bum Bum Train did in London - immersive walk-around theatre experiences. But it should be done for locals, not to entice tourists.

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We’re a medieval town with roads that naturally evolved to herd cattle down to ships is what I was taught. It’s just not built for the scale of traffic it endures. And everything being funneled through o Connell st to this day is just bonkers.

I'm not sure that there really is funneling to O'Connell. Most traffic is along the quays and over the bridge at Tara Street. I don't think there's a potential silver-bullet traffic scheme that would change anything. Better public transport might improve things, but a congestion charge is probably the only solution to congestion.

Before the Luas line was connected it was my paradigm example of poor planning in Dublin. But I actually think it's been a terrible extension. Few people travel more than a stop or two beyond Stephen's Green. And considering how slow the tram moves from SG to Parnell Square, it's little quicker for them anyway. But the consequences for traffic are huge. Until we have a metro, no one should expect to be dropped off in the heart of the city. That goes for buses too: Dublin Bus shouldn't be allowed use O'Connell Street and Dame Street as its terminus. The 5/10-minute walk from Pearse and Tara Dart stations should be the norm.

Realt Dearg Sec

That wasn't our first backward step. We had the first electric tram system in Europe, and it was actually built with a long-term vision for the city, extending lines into areas that had not yet developed but were expected to. Then we scrapped it to make way for the spectacular bus system that we still have today (many of the bus routes have the same numbers as the old tram routes they replaced). In case you're wondering why supposedly poorer cities like Warsaw and Budapest have such extensive tram systems and we don't, it was another textbook example of short-sighted planning on the part of our betters.

Thelonious Monk

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Saw a lovely clip in color the other day on FB from the 50s and you’re 100% right. Next to no cars. All bikes. One lovely shot of outside the long hall on George’s stand a bike sitting outside and another chap pulls up leaves the bike and wanders in for a pint.


Looks at Dublin now where you can’t even leave a bike alone without it being robbed

And the reason most cars drive to town these days is because they can, not because they need to. People just didn't have cars back then.

Thelonious Monk

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

That wasn't our first backward step. We had the first electric tram system in Europe, and it was actually built with a long-term vision for the city, extending lines into areas that had not yet developed but were expected to. Then we scrapped it to make way for the spectacular bus system that we still have today (many of the bus routes have the same numbers as the old tram routes they replaced). In case you're wondering why supposedly poorer cities like Warsaw and Budapest have such extensive tram systems and we don't, it was another textbook example of short-sighted planning on the part of our betters.

I don't think Warsaw or Budapest were ever poorer than us. Budapest of the mighty Austro-Hungarian empire? Simply walking about these cities makes you realise they were absolutely minted at some stage in history. Dublin was always a run down kip in a lot of parts!