Why aren't you a vegan!?

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

I still stand over that statement. Keep cattle here myself and last year was a struggle but nothing compared to my tillage neighbors. I buy straw off one from the same field every year. Last year there were 47 bales on it, this year over 120 I can only assume the grain yield was down by the same amount. I know potatoes did particularly bad too.

It had no effect on my cattle numbers only I had much l had to monitor grass and water and rotate more often.

Did it affect weight of cattle? Cost input (including sums)?

gozunda

Unearthly wrote: »

Appeal to nature fallacy. It's an extremely poor lowest common denominator argument

Unearthly - I completely agree!

Here is one from earlier ...

ted1 wrote: »

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural...

Lots of things aren't 'natural'. Driving a car isn't 'natural' for humans. Growing and harvesting carrots for example is not 'natural' for humans.

I'd agree we are a species apart which have thrived because we have successfully (perhaps a bit too much) stepped away from 'nature' and built a society based on science, logic and reason. I'd really hate to see human society revert back to the stone age tbh.

PokeHerKing

whisky_galore wrote: »

If you live in a Chinatown area in Vietnam, the place is full of barking dogs at night leading up to New Year.
After Chinese New Year, silence.

One thing I will say about them is that they know well where their food comes from, no cognitive dissonance - not purchasing neatly wrapped meat portions in the supermarket, and they don't faff about soul searching Western style as to whether it's ethical or not.

Asia has created most of the recent killer hybrid diseases by having such filthy markets with all kinds of live and dead meat side by side. Certainly nothing to aspire to.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Did it affect weight of cattle? Cost input (including sums)?

Not really, I farm fairly extensively, cattle never had a shortage of water for a start as it is easy to bring water to cattle or cattle to water. Grass growth was down but was managed so cattle were never hungry either. Probably sent culls off a bit earlier but not sure how much more they would have gained since they were heavy cattle anyway. (Prices for them were poor as others were doing similar)

Biggest cost increase was Diesel and time spent in tractor between moving cattle to different outfarms and constantly trying to cut and bale any surplus grass to make up for poor yielding first cut silage after the cold spring.

But like I said if cattle are fed and watered they will do fine but drought causes biggest issue for growing crops be that grass, grain or veg.

Beef cattle are grown over 3 years, the drought was only a few months but those few months are the entire growing season for tillage farmers.

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Not really, I farm fairly extensively, cattle never had a shortage of water for a start as it is easy to bring water to cattle or cattle to water. Grass growth was down but was managed so cattle were never hungry either. Probably sent culls off a bit earlier but not sure how much more they would have gained since they were heavy cattle anyway. (Prices for them were poor as others were doing similar)

Biggest cost increase was Diesel and time spent in tractor between moving cattle to different outfarms and constantly trying to cut and bale any surplus grass to make up for poor yielding first cut silage after the cold spring.

But like I said if cattle are fed and watered they will do fine but drought causes biggest issue for growing crops be that grass, grain or veg.

Beef cattle are grown over 3 years, the drought was only a few months but those few months are the entire growing season for tillage farmers.

Yes I'm aware that the growing period for crops is much less than livestock so they can get affected more if conditions are not ideal.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Yes I'm aware that the growing period for crops is much less than livestock so they can get affected more if conditions are not ideal.

Well that's all I said to start this conversation off

Unearthly

gozunda wrote: »

Unearthly - I completely agree!

Here is one from earlier ...



Lots of things aren't 'natural'. Driving a car isn't 'natural' for humans. Growing and harvesting carrots for example is not 'natural' for humans.

I'd agree we are a species apart which have thrived because we have successfully (perhaps a bit too much) stepped away from 'nature' and built a society based on science, logic and reason. I'd really hate to see human society revert back to the stone age tbh.

Gozunda my man I always knew we'd agree one day

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

Well that's all I said to start this conversation off

Early kill is not as detrimental as early harvest or no harvest. Grand the bullocks are 3 year olds. How about 1 and 2 year olds. Sure they had to meet their faith?

dartboardio

Way more meat eaters eat avocado than vegans, heck, there are way more meat eaters anyway.

Used to work in a popular burrito bar, and you'd probably serve one or two vegans a week.

YFlyer

dartboardio wrote: »

Way more meat eaters eat avocado than vegans, heck, there are way more meat eaters anyway.

Used to work in a popular burrito bar, and you'd probably serve one or two vegans a week.

Shhh

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

Early kill is not as detrimental as early harvest or no harvest. Grand the bullocks are 3 year olds. How about 1 and 2 year olds. Sure they had to meet their faith?

You mean this year and next year right?
They have more than made up their weight as this year was a bumper year for grass growth.

YFlyer

emaherx wrote: »

You mean this year and next year right?
They have more than made up their weight as this year was a bumper year for grass growth.

I'm saying to be under stressed in 2018 and be attempted to go to the slaughter then.

ILoveYourVibes

Inconvenience and worries about malnutrition.

emaherx

YFlyer wrote: »

I'm saying to be under stressed in 2018 and be attempted to go to the slaughter then.

Not much of a market for that in this country, perhaps the live export trade increased slightly, but I'd suspect most farmers would have tried to hold onto such stock as it would leave them short this year and they would be the stock with the lowest fodder intake requirements. older animals like old cull cows would have been better targets as they are hungrier and can be replaced by lighter younger heifers with lower intake requirements.

In a normal year a lot of surplus fodder made in the east is sold in the west. But last year parts of the west with wet land actually had a bumper year and for a change their surplus was sold East.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be comfortable if dogs or horses or cats were farmed in accordance with the same methods, then, to add more diversity to our menus?

Ever hear of the Far East ?

Deleted User wrote: »

Cards on the table, I'm not a vegan.

That said, it's very hard to argue against the common vegan. After all, almost nobody argues that there is some positive benefit toward the infliction of suffering on animals.


....
So, why aren't you a vegan?

Perhaps you have a valid position I, or others here, haven't thought of.

But thus far, I can't frame a case against it.

You do know vegans don't eat dairy products as well as not eating meat/flesh.

Why the fook would anyone not want to eat a nice piece of cheese, have a proper cheese dripping pizza, have lovely melting butter on their spuds, have a nice ice cream of a hot day, not want to enjoy a proper cappuccino???

I am not a meat eater in that I don't really eat pork or beef, but I do eat fish and by god I love my dairy products.

Give me the fillet of cheddar any day (ok a great Mayo man sold me on that), some Connacht Gold on the spuds or lovely fresh bread and a Mint Magnum when it;s a bit hot out.

gormdubhgorm

Unearthly wrote: »

Appeal to nature fallacy. It's an extremely poor lowest common denominator argument

How is it a lowest common denominator argument or a fallacy?

It is natural we are mammals we can eat meat. If anything it is a fallacy to think up arguments why not to eat meat.

Disregard for your own health then have to eat food made in labs and ironically hunt for substitutes.
If it was natural not to eat meat you would not need these you manufactured substitutes simple as that.
It is natures way of telling you that you should be eating meat.

Vegans to me, are almost trying to manufacture an 'unearthly' plastic fake world which does not exist in nature. How you can say it is a fallacy is beyond belief to me. It just reads like denial on your part, to the obvious truth of it.
So you have to brush it aside as a fallacy because to pardon the pun it is too close to the bone for you.

Unearthly

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How is it a lowest common denominator argument or a fallacy?

It is natural we are mammals we can eat meat. If anything it is a fallacy to think up arguments why not to eat meat.

Disregard for your own health then have to eat food made in labs and ironically hunt for substitutes.
If it was natural not to eat meat you would not need these you manufactured substitutes simple as that.
It is natures way of telling you that you should be eating meat.

Vegans to me, are almost trying to manufacture an 'unearthly' plastic fake world which does not exist in nature. How you can say it is a fallacy is beyond belief to me. It just reads like denial on your part, to the obvious truth of it.
So you have to brush it aside as a fallacy because to pardon the pun it is too close to the bone for you.

Pure nonsense. Like something you'd hear someone say on TG FOUR

Dick_Swiveller

I think the problem with the vegan movement (if that's the right terms) is that many of its proponents are insufferable idiots. Through their generally annoying behaviour, they drive away ordinary people who might otherwise sign up.

Personally, I enjoy eating eggs and meat far too much to even consider giving them up. Selfish perhaps - but that's how I feel.

Alrigghtythen

YFlyer wrote: »

Shhh

How did irelands native advacado trees fare in the drought?

kowloon

I have no problem with vegetarians/vegans, but I can't do it, I like meat too much, and I'm not entirely opposed to moving on to human flesh now that I have a taste for it.

gormdubhgorm

Dick_Swiveller wrote: »

I think the problem with the vegan movement (if that's the right terms) is that many of its proponents are insufferable idiots. Through their generally annoying behaviour, they drive away ordinary people who might otherwise sign up.

Personally, I enjoy eating eggs and meat far too much to even consider giving them up. Selfish perhaps - but that's how I feel.

Eggs are a great source of protein as well an excellent healthy food. Those who forgo these type of food are either -

1) So ideological ingrained they will not change (which is fair enough)

2) Have money already so can easily switched to trendy overpriced supplements etc

3) Are willing to suffer and not eat these healthy foods just so they can fit in with a sub group (even though they would prefer not to be vegan and dream of eggs and meat)

Plus lets be honest more often than not a stereotypical vegan is a very left leaning, very urban, very middle class type of woman. That is the vegan market to me. That is the 'type'.

gormdubhgorm

kowloon wrote: »

I have no problem with vegetarians/vegans, but I can't do it, I like meat too much, and I'm not entirely opposed to moving on to human flesh now that I have a taste for it.

What does a vegan taste like they must have plenty of herbs of one kind of another in them. It must act as some sort of seasoning to the flesh?

dartboardio

Dick_Swiveller wrote: »

I think the problem with the vegan movement (if that's the right terms) is that many of its proponents are insufferable idiots. Through their generally annoying behaviour, they drive away ordinary people who might otherwise sign up.

Personally, I enjoy eating eggs and meat far too much to even consider giving them up. Selfish perhaps - but that's how I feel.

Absolutely, if we are selfish then so are billions, and have been, forever

I just find veganism another trend, the way avocado is fashionable nowadays.

riemann

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus lets be honest more often than not a stereotypical vegan is a very left leaning, very urban, very middle class type of woman. That is the vegan market to me. That is the 'type'.

They find other ways to get their daily protein quota.

Infini

I'm a simple man, I see good meat i eat it.

jmayo

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Eggs are a great source of protein as well an excellent healthy food. Those who forgo these type of food are either -

1) So ideological ingrained they will not change (which is fair enough)

2) Have money already so can easily switched to trendy overpriced supplements etc

3) Are willing to suffer and not eat these healthy foods just so they can fit in with a sub group (even though they would prefer not to be vegan and dream of eggs and meat)

Plus lets be honest more often than not a stereotypical vegan is a very left leaning, very urban, very middle class type of woman. That is the vegan market to me. That is the 'type'.

Fook it forgot about the eggs.

Something that can be nice of a weekend morning, and the kids love them, are pancakes.

And to think these simple tasty articles are out of bounds of vegans, unless they try make some god awful artificial concoction, because they contain EGGS, MILK, BUTTER.

Throw in a gluten free vegan and you can rule out the flour as well.

And yes I know there are substitutes, but in all seriousness can anyone say they taste or act like the similar natural product.

Vegans talk about the need "not exploit animals".

Surely one of the greatest ways to exploit animals is by taking their habitats/land/territory and transforming it into something that benefits us - whether its city expansion, creating research zones, or whatever it may be; humans are constantly encroaching on the territory of other animals for our own benefit.

That happens, of course, on a global scale - and vegans are inextricably part of that process - yet appear to be perfectly willing to accept that form of exploitation.

Hypocritical, perhaps?

gormdubhgorm

I did a bit of research the population of vegans to the rest of the population is minute.

From the vegan societys own website the population of vegans in the UK is 1.16% of the population.

https://www.vegansociety.com/news/media/statistics

Over here Bord Bia estimates that 8% of the Irish population are now vegetarian, while 2% are vegan.

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-vegetarians-vegans-2-4058390-Jun2018/

Interestingly the Irish Vegan claims is it higher using the more nebulous term 'dietary vegan' from the bord bia report which means they may not be vegan by choice or could be temporary. Where it says it is 4%

http://irishvegan.ie/faq/


The question I ask is why do Vegans have such a loud voice for thier tiny percentage in the general population? They still manage to make people like the poor auld OP question his/her choices making them feel guilty.

It all seems to be one way a vegan tsunami with a tiny, but very small vocal minority pushing an ideology (not just a lifestyle) on others. They mostly fit a certain demographic as I said in an earlier post. Lets be honest when most people hear vegan without meeting the person they have a certain 'type' in mind.

I for one think it is time the silent majority fight back, and emphasis the benefits of good wholesome foods which lead to a better healthier lifestyle.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/veganism-health-problems-vitamins-diet-hunger-malnutrition-a8682906.html

Sloppy_Joe

Changing individuals behaviour is a waste of time. World population is increasing so any reduction you make is just going to be made up for by people being born.

Life is too short to be worrying about these things. You're on the planet for 70-80 years and it's hard enough as it is without sacrificing things that bring you pleasure while the rich continue as is.

If you really care about the planet etc. then just don't have kids. Yet I suspect the desire to have kids is greater than the desire to save the planet.

Me desire to have an easier, more enjoyable life is greater than my desire to save the planet.

Sloppy_Joe

Also why are vegans so vocal about being vegan. It's like an identity, having it on your twitter bio.