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New NOx VRT levy

  • 08-11-2019 10:48am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    Wothball of the imports from the uk, should the vrt on petrol diesel not climb and reduce it further for elecyric ? They are complaining about all the dirty diesels coming in !


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 samih


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Wothball of the imports from the uk, should the vrt on petrol diesel not climb and reduce it further for elecyric ? They are complaining about all the dirty diesels coming in !

    There will be new NOx VRT charge (from Jan?) that can be pretty punitive for any dirty ones.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,019 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Wothball of the imports from the uk, should the vrt on petrol diesel not climb and reduce it further for elecyric ? They are complaining about all the dirty diesels coming in !

    Did you miss this years budget?! ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim


    Yeah but is it enough ? This spoke slowly approach isn’t good enough. These dirty diesels will be on our road for another decade at least. The only people importing diesel , are for people doing huge mileage , that an ev might not be practical for. Others bringing them in to save a fortune v here is understandable. But it’s a disgrace in my opinion. They should tax certainly diesel and petrol to a lesser extent at rates that virtually stop their importation ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ kaahooters


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Yeah but is it enough ? This spoke slowly approach isn’t good enough. These dirty diesels will be on our road for another decade at least. The only people importing diesel , are for people doing huge mileage , that an ev might not be practical for. Others bringing them in to save a fortune v here is understandable. But it’s a disgrace in my opinion. They should tax certainly diesel and petrol to a lesser extent at rates that virtually stop their importation ..[/quote{

    You do understand its thousands on cars imported?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    kaahooters wrote: »
    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Yeah but is it enough ? This spoke slowly approach isn’t good enough. These dirty diesels will be on our road for another decade at least. The only people importing diesel , are for people doing huge mileage , that an ev might not be practical for. Others bringing them in to save a fortune v here is understandable. But it’s a disgrace in my opinion. They should tax certainly diesel and petrol to a lesser extent at rates that virtually stop their importation ..
    You do understand its thousands on cars imported?

    Do you have an example?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,722 ✭✭✭ User1998


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Yeah but is it enough ? This spoke slowly approach isn’t good enough. These dirty diesels will be on our road for another decade at least. The only people importing diesel , are for people doing huge mileage , that an ev might not be practical for. Others bringing them in to save a fortune v here is understandable. But it’s a disgrace in my opinion. They should tax certainly diesel and petrol to a lesser extent at rates that virtually stop their importation ..

    Take the two most popular imports:

    2015 Volkswagen Golf 1.6 tdi
    Vrt now €2000

    After January €1700
    + €1700 nox tax

    Making it uneconomical to import

    2015 Ford Focus 1.5 tdci
    VRT now €1800
    After January €1500
    + €2000 nox tax

    Making it uneconomical to import

    **Rough figures

    They have made it uneconomical to import a diesel from before 2008 and also high polluting ones regardless of their year. The two most imported cars will no longer be imported, and we will probably see more petrol equivalents being brought in instead, which is a step in the right direction. There will definitely be a massive decrease in high polluting cars being imported and people will look at evs,hybrid, petrol, or worst case, low polluting diesels instead. There are plenty of diesels that the Nox charge will only affect by a few euro as they aren’t high polluting. If they had of done an increase like you are suggesting, thousands of jobs would have been lost and lots of garages being shut down. They can’t just cut off all diesel and petrol from being imported. What would people drive? And what would second hand car garages sell? There aren’t enough EV’s or hybrids in the UK to supply the whole of Ireland with. It would just cause people to buy a cheap diesel in Ireland which is just as bad as buying one in the UK

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/warning-that-12000-motor-industry-jobs-could-be-lost-in-event-of-nodeal-brexit-and-increase-in-vehicle-registration-tax-38506346.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,034 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Checks for DPF removal at NCT is badly needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭ Silent Running


    Checks for DPF removal at NCT is badly needed.

    Low tech test for DPF: run your finger inside the tailpipe.

    Soot = no or cored DPF
    No soot = functioning DPF present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,636 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Low tech test for DPF: run your finger inside the tailpipe.

    Soot = no or cored DPF
    No soot = functioning DPF present.

    Erm... That's no really accurate at all. Most cars with dpf on them will have soot on the tail pipe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭ Silent Running


    listermint wrote: »
    Erm... That's no really accurate at all. Most cars with dpf on them will have soot on the tail pipe.

    Any car I had with a functioning DPF had little or no soot. Any car I had with no or cored DPF had a thick layer of soot inside the tailpipe.

    It would, at the very least, warrant further investigation if there was a lot of soot present.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭ September1


    Low tech test for DPF: run your finger inside the tailpipe.

    Soot = no or cored DPF
    No soot = functioning DPF present or soot cleaned


    FTFY :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    User1998 wrote:
    2015 Ford Focus 1.5 tdci VRT now €1800
    After January €1500 + €2000 nox tax

    2015 Volkswagen Golf 1.6 tdi Vrt now €2000
    After January €1700 + €1700 nox tax

    Making it uneconomical to import
    So 1500 extra quid will stop imports? That's not prohibitively expensive at all.

    It's an annoyance and an opportunist move by the gov to get money, it has nothing to do with climate or pollution, I suspect. If they really wanted 1M EVs on the road the policy would be much more bolder.

    My issues:
    - it's capped - it shouldn't be
    - it's band based - band based anything is a flawed concept, continuous function based approach is always better and fairer, bands are unfair and create discrepancies
    - it's not applied to the the motor tax as well - it should, polluters should pay not only for purchase but especially for usage (see Sweden, Netherlands, Norway)


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,636 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Any car I had with a functioning DPF had little or no soot. Any car I had with no or cored DPF had a thick layer of soot inside the tailpipe.

    It would, at the very least, warrant further investigation if there was a lot of soot present.

    All diesels will have soot on the pipes some alot more depending on age. . Dpf or not. Dpf isn't a panacea for exhaust gases.

    People tend not to clean the exhaust out. Where do you think the stuff goes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    Checks for DPF removal at NCT is badly needed.

    I foresee NOx tests coming in as part of the NCT. Nissan (and Renault) diesels seem to be up to some sort of dieselgate type stuff. Recent real world tests have shown the 1.6d X-Trail (for example) to be 14 times over the NOx limit, and not even compliant with Euro I standards (from 1993 iirc)
    McGiver wrote: »
    So 1500 extra quid will stop imports? That's not prohibitively expensive at all.

    I think it will encourage a switch away from diesel. People will be able to import the equivalent petrol for less.
    McGiver wrote: »
    My issues:
    - it's capped - it shouldn't be

    Agreed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,902 ✭✭✭ McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I think it will encourage a switch away from diesel. People will be able to import the equivalent petrol for less.
    I think that would work if diesel was also taxed using a similar/same mechanism based on pollutants, that would deter import & usage. Whereas as it is, it may deter import but if the person calculates that they'll save on fuel & motor tax over X years what they pay extra on VRT then they'll import anyway. That's why it's important to do it for both for VRT as well as motor tax (as in Norway).

    I predict this will have only modest effect on diesel imports. Don't forget that Ireland has one of the highest penetration of diesels at about 70% so only getting rid of that will take a long time, so we don't need more imports on top, the diesel VRT should have been more punitive IMHO.

    As for punitive motor taxes on diesel - that shouldn't be done in a rush and it requires ancillary policies, because lower income people would typically use the most polluting cars and would be hit hardest but wouldn't be able to afford ICE-HV, PHEV or BEV, so that stick would need to be somehow balanced with some sort of a carrot.

    But punitive motor tax is essential get polluters out of the road. The situation where petrol is 380 EUR but diesel equivalent is 310 can't continue - diesel tax must be a multiple of petrol to discourage pollution as in other EU countries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭✭ Ger406


    Hi

    I am looking for confirmation on the new Nox charge for uk imports. Most media saying it is from the 1st Jan 2020 and others saying it could be 2021. Nothing on revenue site.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,611 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    It applies to anything registered from January 1.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭ michellie


    I don't have it in writing but word confirmed from a correspondent in Dublin castle last week to us, it will be January 1st. The calculator will not be updated until much later.

    There will be tiers to calculate it similar to the USC calculation. Max for diesel 4850, max for petrol 600


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭ ratracer


    michellie wrote: »
    There will be tiers to calculate it similar to the USC calculation. Max for diesel 4850, max for petrol 600

    I’d say there will be tears when it’s calculated alright..... ;););)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭ Dia_Anseo


    It's from the 1st of Jan 2020

    I have tried at will to create a backlash on here about it however apparently the boards motor forum are representative of the Irish motorist who simply just turn over to be bummed yet again.

    I have also been the subject of caustic slander and abuse too from troll on here in my plight to raise awareness of this sneaky tax. There are members on here who call who invigilate taht are in cahoots. I'll probably get smacked down by them again because of thsi.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭ michellie


    ratracer wrote: »
    I’d say there will be tears when it’s calculated alright..... ;););)

    Tears from the same ones who calculate VRT wrong ;););)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,589 ✭✭✭ Marcusm


    michellie wrote: »
    I don't have it in writing but word confirmed from a correspondent in Dublin castle last week to us, it will be January 1st. The calculator will not be updated until much later.

    There will be tiers to calculate it similar to the USC calculation. Max for diesel 4850, max for petrol 600

    Provided Michael D signs the Finance Bill on Christmas Day(as per usual) it will be in effect from 1 January 2020.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭ Dia_Anseo


    Marcusm wrote: »
    Provided Michael D signs the Finance Bill on Christmas Day(as per usual) it will be in effect from 1 January 2020.

    So we still have time to contest it?

    Who's with me guys?

    If we barricade the Aras with UK registered cars on Christmas day so the bill can't get to Michael therefore he can't sign the bill into law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭✭ Ger406


    So if the finance bill is only signed Christmas day could it still be enforced from 1st January.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭ Journee Hot Bacteria


    Ger406 wrote: »
    So if the finance bill is only signed Christmas day could it still be enforced from 1st January.

    Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭ samjames


    I only heard this today and I bought a 2018 hyundai tucson diesl in England but its not home yet, what would the new nox be on that in January next year


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 435 ✭✭ Dia_Anseo


    samjames wrote: »
    I only heard this today and I bought a 2018 hyundai tucson diesl in England but its not home yet, what would the new nox be on that in January next year

    You're grand on new diesels like the 2018 Tucson that's only 52mg/km, so it'll be something marginal like 50 euro

    But a 2017 Focus would be 165mg/km equating to 2700 euro


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭ Journee Hot Bacteria


    Dia_Anseo wrote: »
    You're grand on new diesels like the 2018 Tucson that's only 52mg/km, so it'll be something marginal like 50 euro

    But a 2017 Focus would be 165mg/km equating to 2700 euro

    52 x 5 = 260, no?

    A 2017 Focus 1.5 also appears to be 52mg/km so also 260...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭ Casati


    Dia_Anseo wrote: »
    You're grand on new diesels like the 2018 Tucson that's only 52mg/km, so it'll be something marginal like 50 euro

    But a 2017 Focus would be 165mg/km equating to 2700 euro

    Where can you get the data?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭ Journee Hot Bacteria


    Casati wrote: »
    Where can you get the data?

    In his case, out of his arse.

    For the correct numbers, you can find the correct NOx values from a site such as https://www.nextgreencar.com/ and then calculate it using this table:

    Amount payable per mg/km
    The first 0-60 mg/km: €5
    The next 20 mg/km or part thereof up to 80 mg/km: €15
    The remainder above 80 mg/km: €25
    The NOx charge will be capped at a maximum of €4,850 for diesel vehicles and €600 for other vehicles.


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