New NOx VRT levy

KCross

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'm not missing the point. People go across becuase they've money they can spend on it. They are looking for people to go across and get something that either doesnt fit them, or they potentially cant afford and would need a loan. It's not about the tax at all with that other guy.

Im sorry but you are missing the point.

No one is forcing anyone to get a loan they cant afford or buy a car that doesnt suit. Thats a very dubious connection you've made there. The tax is simply to discourage people importing the worst polluting cars.

So, the other guy needs to change his expectations on what he can afford, not go and get a loan or buy the wrong car!


I think you might misunderstand diesel pollution also because you said

Im sure some of us would much rather have a negative impact on you...

Do you think that pollution doesnt affect you?

KCross

Casati wrote: »

Really?? If it discourages newer imports to replace older cars, it simply means people drive older more polluting cars for much longer and in turn affects all of us.

It means the worst polluting cars will be off our roads sooner. If you let the flood gates stay open the water will keep flowing. By discouraging them now they will be off our roads sooner and the secondhand cars that will be filtering down will be the cleaner variety.

Casati wrote: »

Let’s be honest here, the only reason they have targeted imports is because of lobbying by SIMI who have seen their members cars sales and their inventory value reduced because of the great value importing from the U.K..

I'd have to disagree. It might be part of the reason but not the only reason. It clearly targets older diesels and has little effect on Euro6 diesels (2015+) which is a large chunk of what people will be importing going forward anyway.



Doing nothing would be bad for us environmentally and economically. What the govt have implemented is a reasonable first step.

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

That's a stupid way of thinking too

What if the older diesel is barely used and the new one is doing 400km a day every day

Who pollutes more?

Commute culture is what's wrong in this country, people drive way too much and battery cars are making it even worse with cheap running cost

Idiot's buying brand new enviroment cars living in bloody Carlow and clogging up the M50 everyday into North Dublin for €5 a week on electricy on the night rate and after 5-7 years and 400k km on the clock that car is knackered and needs replacing with 150kg of rare earth materials

That needs to stop

We should be planting more trees, making forests, putting tolls up every 20km, getting people out of bloody cars, all cars.

Getting rid of old cars is just stupid and lazy

I cant say I disagree with much in that post Mike. However, the commute culture isnt the commuters fault, is it? And EV's certainly havent caused it! So, "idiots" is a bit harsh!

Casati

KCross wrote: »

It means the worst polluting cars will be off our roads sooner. If you let the flood gates stay open the water will keep flowing. By discouraging them now they will be off our roads sooner and the secondhand cars that will be filtering down will be the cleaner variety.



I'd have to disagree. It might be part of the reason but not the only reason. It clearly targets older diesels and has little effect on Euro6 diesels (2015+) which is a large chunk of what people will be importing going forward anyway.



Doing nothing would be bad for us environmentally and economically. What the govt have implemented is a reasonable first step.

They are doing nothing for the existing fleet except to make it older, that’s the point!

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

I cant say I disagree with much in that post Mike. However, the commute culture isnt the commuters fault, is it? And EV's certainly havent caused it! So, "idiots" is a bit harsh!

That's true KCross, you can't blame them and im sure they would love to live closer to home than spending 15 hours a week in a car

It's part of our culture now living in cars and going to get alot worse when people realise a battery car can do 500km a week for €5 on night rate

KCross

Casati wrote: »

They are doing nothing for the existing fleet except to make it older, that’s the point!

Im not sure thats necessarily a bad thing overall. We should be keeping cars longer just not importing crap ones.


I also just took a look at the import stats from 2018. 70% of them were <5yrs old. So, the majority of the import market wont really be affected by this tax. People will still have a decent supply of second hand cars going forward.

10yr old cars account for only 4% so Im all for discouraging that small portion.

Brexit might make the whole thing irrelevant anyway as it could become uneconomical after tariffs and VAT if they dont do a deal by this time next year.

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

It's part of our culture now living in cars and going to get alot worse when people realise a battery car can do 500km a week for €5 on night rate

I dont know if it would. I dont think anyone would volunteer to be in their car for hours on end just because of cheap fuel. They commute because they have to, regardless of fuel costs.

Atlantic Dawn

I think additionally there should be a levy on electric vehicles imported that don't have a range of 200km or more as they will just clog up the underdeveloped charging infrastructure on everyone else. €10 per km range less than 200km would be a start.

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

I dont know if it would. I dont think anyone would volunteer to be in their car for hours on end just because of cheap fuel. They commute because they have to, regardless of fuel costs.

They do volunteer

Alot of people bought a 5 bed detached house in Carlow in the country side vs a 3 bed semi in an estate in Dublin

They made the choice to commute and work there

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

They do volunteer

Alot of people bought a 5 bed detached house in Carlow in the country side vs a 3 bed semi in an estate in Dublin

They made the choice to commute and work there

If thats true (and I dont have figures on it), more fool them then.

They go to the countryside for, presumably, better quality of life/bigger house etc, but then spend hours on end alone in their cars when they could be with their families. That doesnt seem sane to me, but each to their own.

KCross

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I think additionally there should be a levy on electric vehicles imported that don't have a range of 200km or more as they will just clog up the underdeveloped charging infrastructure on everyone else. €10 per km range less than 200km would be a start.

Probably not worth the bother. All new EV's for the last few years would exceed that 200km mark and the volume of EV's under it in the s/h market is tiny, relatively speaking (<0.5% of the import market!)


A better charging network is what is needed. 2020 should be a big year in that regard.

punisher5112

Mike9832 wrote: »

They do volunteer

Alot of people bought a 5 bed detached house in Carlow in the country side vs a 3 bed semi in an estate in Dublin

They made the choice to commute and work there

It was continue renting absolute sh1t holes or move out of Dublin to afford to buy.

We were pushed well outside Dublin renting and then when we could save a little it was nowhere near enough to be able to buy in Dublin.

Unfortunately I'll have to commute unless I get work where we are.

I'd love to be able to live near where I work but not a hope.

ml100

punisher5112 wrote: »

It was continue renting absolute sh1t holes or move out of Dublin to afford to buy.

We were pushed well outside Dublin renting and then when we could save a little it was nowhere near enough to be able to buy in Dublin.

Unfortunately I'll have to commute unless I get work where we are.

I'd love to be able to live near where I work but not a hope.

Exactly, most dubs want to live in Dublin not Carlow, it's the government's failure to manage developers that's caused this, no planning, development site speculation in Dublin etc have forced builders to build were they can get land, kildare, Carlow etc resuling in people having to buy outside Dublin and commute.

Casati

KCross wrote: »

Im not sure thats necessarily a bad thing overall. We should be keeping cars longer just not importing crap ones.


I also just took a look at the import stats from 2018. 70% of them were <5yrs old. So, the majority of the import market wont really be affected by this tax. People will still have a decent supply of second hand cars going forward.

10yr old cars account for only 4% so Im all for discouraging that small portion.

Brexit might make the whole thing irrelevant anyway as it could become uneconomical after tariffs and VAT if they dont do a deal by this time next

Who is taking about 10 year old cars? Even stuff like a three year old Dacia Logon 1.5 will have 1200 euro Nox bill. This is not just a tax on cars over 5 years old.

lawred2

Who in their right mind is out there importing Dacias?

It must be a vanishingly small cohort

Seweryn

Casati wrote: »

Who is taking about 10 year old cars? Even stuff like a three year old Dacia Logon 1.5 will have 1200 euro Nox bill. This is not just a tax on cars over 5 years old.

The main idea behind the emission scandals (CO2, NO2, DP, etc.) is to collect more money through taxation. Nothing new there. This is a lot easier way than water charges, because people are being told they are actually contributing towards the "green future".

punisher5112

One of the biggest issues is people burning fossil fuels and all the toxins and unburnt crap going up their chimneys.

If any government is serious we need this fixed.

We need electricity that's affordable as there is way too much of a cost.


Imagine having mostly hydro and air generated electricity and more and more could then heat their homes through electricity instead of the fossil fuels.

Just back from a walk there and fcuk me the difficulty in breathing from all the smoke.

We need to look at other countries and gather together the best ways and follow in the likes of cutting the pollutants.

lawred2

How much of our electricity still comes from carbon burning?

Is BnM still cutting up our carbon sinks? And selling it back to us to burn so as create a double whammy?

The state has a bit of work to do itself in cutting it's own carbon contributions.

Barr

Does this nox charge apply to cars that are over 30 year olds .

Just wondering would vintage be exempt.

dar_cool

Yes only category A cars. Classics are exempt from it

McGiver

Atlantic Dawn wrote:

I think additionally there should be a levy on electric vehicles imported that don't have a range of 200km or more as they will just clog up the underdeveloped charging infrastructure on everyone else. €10 per km range less than 200km would be a start.

Really smart and keep them driving polluting diesels instead. Totally backward philosophy, anti innovative, regressive.

Charging infrastructure is developing nicely. It has never been in such a good shape. And it will keep developing as evidenced from other countries. Not sure where you getting the information from, because you very apparently are not an EV owner.

McGiver

Seweryn wrote:

The main idea behind the emission scandals (CO2, NO2, DP, etc.) is to collect more money through taxation. Nothing new there. This is a lot easier way than water charges, because people are being told they are actually contributing towards the "green future".

Ah sure, it's a grand conspiracy.
Not.

Isambard

dar_cool wrote: »

Yes only category A cars. Classics are exempt from it

of more concern would be the VAT and duty on imports from the Uk soon.

toby2111

Has the online vrt calculator now been updated to include the new Nox charge?

unclejoe89

Hi,
Could anyone tell me the VRT on a Audi A5 2014?

edieg

toby2111 wrote: »

Has the online vrt calculator now been updated to include the new Nox charge?

Hi
As I write this, the revenue.ie website still mentions that the calculator is not updated. However, they post two Excel sheets, one with all car models and the other with a simple calculator.

Let me tell you about my case - I brought the car from my country on December 10th, went to NCTS on December 19th. On December 30th I received SMS and e-mail that I need to call back to find the sum to be paid. According to the former calculator, the sum was around 3300E. The one that NCST is declaring over the phone is 7884E.

Problem here is that the car is Diesel and instead of using their own Excel they put the max tax which is 4850EUR. I called Revenue and they state that due to the lack of NoX level data on the car identity card, they put the max: 4850E. They send me back to NCTS to confirm the NoX value... which is written clearly in the NOx-Values Excel file as being 154 but Revenue didn't bother to search for the car model.

The second problem that is hard to challenge (they don't have a strict term to provide the calculation) is that they gave me the calculation too late for me to be able to register the car under 2019 conditions - NCTS was closed from December 23rd until January 2nd.

What is your experience until now?

User1998

unclejoe89 wrote: »

Hi,
Could anyone tell me the VRT on a Audi A5 2014?

https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s1

colm_mcm

lawred2 wrote: »

How much of our electricity still comes from carbon burning?

Is BnM still cutting up our carbon sinks? And selling it back to us to burn so as create a double whammy?

The state has a bit of work to do itself in cutting it's own carbon contributions.

Just changing provider for electricity there and Electric Ireland say 53% gas, 37% renewable, 6% coal and 4% peat.

Bord Gais say 62% gas, 33% renewable, 2.5% coal, 1.7% peat.

Panda say 100% renewable

Now idea how that works in practice, I guess this is what they produce rather than what they sell.

Island average is 291kg of CO2 per MWh which is 291g per KWh

toby2111

As far as I can see,the Revenue site hasn't been updated. Says that NOx charge is not covered. Somebody on this thread(or another one) earlier advised to hold off paying VRT as Revenue still have to drop the 1% surcharge and replace it with the NOx. If VRT paid now(or before its updated),I presume they'll hit you on the double?

EDIT-It was User1998 above who had the good sense to suggest the above.Cheers!

michellie

toby2111 wrote: »

Revenue still have to drop the 1% surcharge and replace it with the NOx.

That was done January 1st.