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Syrian refugee student wins state scholarship

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    #362
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭1641


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    But it is only clear cut to you.

    Anyone that questions whether she is a genuine refugee or asylum seeker has a point. She was living in a safe country where her father was gainfully employed with a work permit in a well paid, tax free job. As was her mother.

    The father stayed in the UAE when the girl and her mother came to Ireland to claim asylum. Having left a safe country where they had spent a number of years.

    How does she merit asylum status under international law given she has fled a safe country where she had lived for years and where her father and mother both had well paid jobs?

    Why did the parents not try and get work visas for Ireland instead of claiming asylum?

    Nothing racist about questioning things Brian.


    They went through the asylum process where their entitlement was assessed. You want to re-run this proces here without access to the facts. Noone is under any obligation to make all their details public, or offer it up on boards, so that you or any other poster can check if thye really and truly qualify -for anything. Should an applicant for a non-contributory OAP put up all their details here so that any sceptial (or cynical, for that matter) Boardsie can check them?

    You have put up nothing to suggest that they might not qualify (to my admittedy limited knowledge of asylum). As reported, they left Syria for the UAE in 2011. The war started in 2011, so that fits. But it wouldn't matter anyhow, it was whether they were safe to go back to Syria that matters. The father was working in the UAE on a visa. The UAE did not have an asylum programme before this year. So they couldn't have got asylum there. So they could seek asylum elsewhere, such as Ireland. (Well paid jobs or not is irrelevant to asylum. But I would have thought you would have a preference for people of an educated/professional background - no?)

    You say the father could have got a work visa for Ireland. Again I will take your word for this. But it doesn't matter. Even if he had come here on a work visa he could still ask for asylum here. There is nothing preventing this or illegal about it. He would still have to go through the assessment process to qualify.

    This bursary winner has faced every effort to discredit her in this thread (and, no doubt, elsewhere) simply because some people find it hard to accept that someone coming through the process and doing well would get positive news coverage.


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    #363
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭1641


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Coming in legally, I believe there are wuestions about how legal the asylum claim is.

    Im also opposed to quotas and tokenism and don’t believe that the news story and potentially the scolarship were issued for any other reason than it warms lefty hearts


    There is simply no answer to that. You are as you are.


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    #364
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Does it also need to be pointed out to anyone on here that she in only a 17 year old girl doing no harm to anyone

    Seems that there are no shortage of internet hardmen willing to moan and give out publicly, but also anonymously, about her.


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    #365
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Does it also need to be pointed out to anyone on here that she in only a 17 year old girl doing no harm to anyone

    Seems that there are no shortage of internet hardmen willing to moan and give out publicly, but also anonymously, about her.
    +1

    Internet hardmen: ****ING "REFUGEES" WON'T ASSIMILATE INTO IRISH SOCIETY1!1!!!!ONE
    *Refugee does something good and attempts to integrate into Irish society*
    Internet hardmen: ****KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK THIS 17 YEAR OLD FOR SOME REASONS!


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    #366
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    "FOREIGNERS GETTING AHEAD IN MY WORLD REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"


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    #367
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Well to be fair, even if they had been in the UAE before it kicked off, doesn't mean they can't claim asylum. They could have moved there on work visa, war starts back in Syria a few years later and then they are suddenly in the position that they would now be sent back to a war zone if their visa is not renewed.
    Thats a big "if". Was that actually the case?
    The answer is No. We know that because the father decided not to leave his well paid job while the mother and daughter were off to Ireland, putting on the poor mouth.
    I wonder if the asylum office were even aware of his existence, or did the pair present as a vulnerable war widow with a child.


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    #368
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    recedite wrote: »
    Thats a big "if". Was that actually the case?
    The answer is No. We know that because the father decided not to leave his well paid job while the mother and daughter were off to Ireland, putting on the poor mouth.
    I wonder if the asylum office were even aware of his existence, or did the pair present as a vulnerable war widow with a child.
    *source required


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    #369
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    *source required
    Source for what? My post was self-explanatory.


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    #370
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    recedite wrote: »
    Source for what? My post was self-explanatory.
    Your post made allegations of fact. You're admitting that in actuality it's your opinion proffered as factual?


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    #371
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    recedite wrote: »
    Source for what? My post was self-explanatory.

    You've asserted they put on the poor mouth. For no reason.

    You've absolutely no reason to think that they are anything but genuine.

    What flaming hoops would she have to jump through to satisfy you that she is eligible for asylum in Ireland?


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    #372
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭1641


    recedite wrote: »
    Source for what? My post was self-explanatory.




    I would love a source for the dustbin of balderdash that you have been picking your nonsensical ideas, irrelevancies, slurs and innuendos from throughout this thread.


    Why are you so desperate? Why is this story so threatening?


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    #373
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    1641 wrote: »
    I would love a source for the dustbin of balderdash that you have been picking your nonsensical ideas, irrelevancies, slurs and innuendos from throughout this thread.


    Why are you so desperate? Why is this story so threatening?
    I'm gonna hazard a guess: didn't have the points for RCSI? .


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    #374
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Milo Embarrassed Stadium wrote: »
    I'm not seeing the fuss about this girl. Her parents are both engineers, so she clearly comes from a well-educated family. One doesn't just walk into a school in another country, get 600 points in the Leaving, and go to university on a scholarship without already being bright and highly motivated.

    We have a tendency to see refugees as poorly educated, but that's not always the case. Anyone can be displaced by conflict.

    All the best to her, but "Child from educated background wins scholarship" is not especially remarkable, regardless of her refugee status.

    Girl who moved to the state 4 years ago with English as her third language earns scholarship after gaining entrance to medical school by scoring in the too percentiles of both CAO and HPAT exams despite living on rural area and lacking access to grinds schools or HPAT preparation courses.


    That's pretty ****ing impressive by any metric.


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    #375
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Lets cut to the chase here. Roughly half the posters on this thread seem to think the family were genuine asylum seekers, and half do not.
    The question is, at what point does a refugee cease to be a refugee? When they esape the war, and reach the first safe country? The second safe country? the third?
    Suppose they arrive in the wealthiest place on the planet, are accepted in and given work permits, and have official residency status there. The particular country does not generally hand out citizenship unless you marry a native, but their residency is assured.

    Next, how many years of residency are required before they are no longer "threatened" by the original war? 1,2,3,4,5 years? A lifetime? Will they live their entire life as a refugee?
    What about their kids? I'm aware that some Palestinians living in Syria (ironically) and also Jordan Lebanon have passed down their refugee status through 2 or 3 generations, but (somewhat bizarrely) only through the male line. Those are the rules set by UNRA. But the future of UNRA is in doubt, because Trump reckons they are a bunch of chancers and withdrew US funding in 2018.
    Among the many US complaints about the agency is the way it calculates the number of officially recognized as Palestinian refugees. It would like to change the number from the more than 5 million who are counted today to the few hundred thousand alive when the agency was created seven decades ago.
    That leaves us in the EU funding the entire thing. Without the funding, the lawyers and admin workers who perpetuate the whole asylum industry quickly lose interest, and disappear into some other line of work.
    Palestinians who moved to the USA or Canada don't seem to consider themselves to be perpetual refugees.

    My point is that these things are open to interpretation. And the interpretation can change over time, especially when those paying the costs start to feel that the beneficiaries are taking the proverbial piss.


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    #376
    McHardcore
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭McHardcore


    You are making assumptions and claiming them as fact. Do you understand the difference of what is being explained by both me and many other posters to you in this thread?


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    #377
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    recedite wrote: »
    Lets cut to the chase here. Roughly half the posters on this thread seem to think the family were genuine asylum seekers, and half do not.
    Translation: roughly half the people here believe that the asylum system and laws of Ireland are operational, the other half are conspiracy theorists who have no evidence of what they're spouting.

    Cue long rambling incoherent conspiracy theory in 3, 2, 1...
    The question is, at what point does a refugee cease to be a refugee? When they esape the war, and reach the first safe country? The second safe country? the third?
    Suppose they arrive in the wealthiest place on the planet, are accepted in and given work permits, and have official residency status there. The particular country does not generally hand out citizenship unless you marry a native, but their residency is assured.

    Next, how many years of residency are required before they are no longer "threatened" by the original war? 1,2,3,4,5 years? A lifetime? Will they live their entire life as a refugee?
    What about their kids? I'm aware that some Palestinians living in Syria (ironically) and also Jordan Lebanon have passed down their refugee status through 2 or 3 generations, but (somewhat bizarrely) only through the male line. Those are the rules set by UNRA. But the future of UNRA is in doubt, because Trump reckons they are a bunch of chancers and withdrew US funding in 2018.

    That leaves us in the EU funding the entire thing. Without the funding, the lawyers and admin workers who perpetuate the whole asylum industry quickly lose interest, and disappear into some other line of work.
    Palestinians who moved to the USA or Canada don't seem to consider themselves to be perpetual refugees.
    My point is that these things are open to interpretation. And the interpretation can can change over time, especially when those paying the costs start to feel that the beneficiaries are taking the proverbial piss.
    Or like, maybe just... no? Talk to someone, take a breath and relax.


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    #378
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    McHardcore wrote: »
    You are making assumptions and claiming them as fact. Do you understand the difference of what is being explained by both me and many other posters to you in this thread?
    Nonsense. What exactly are you referring to? The exact quote please.


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    #379
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Translation: roughly half the people here believe that the asylum system and laws of Ireland are operational, the other half are conspiracy theorists who have no evidence of what they're spouting.

    Cue long rambling incoherent conspiracy theory in 3, 2, 1...




    Or like, maybe just... no? Talk to someone, take a breath and relax.
    That's typical alright. No facts, no citations. A condescending, smartarse, non-reply laced with insults and empty virtue signalling.


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    #380
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    I find it amusing that the same posters who consistently question the validity of refugees because they're 'always single young men, where are the women and families' are now getting their knickers in a twist over a mother and daughter. Surely these are exactly the kind of refugees they say they would happily accept.

    As has been explained several times now the UAE did not accept asylum seekers at the time this family were there so they would never have been allowed to stay long-term. I think that is wrong, but that is the situation.

    She did the CAO/HPAT as an Irish entrant, not an international medical entrant, and so would have been required to get the same points as any other Irish entrant to get into RCSI. It's completely anonymous.


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    #381
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    lozenges wrote: »
    I find it amusing that the same posters who consistently question the validity of refugees because they're 'always single young men, where are the women and families' are now getting their knickers in a twist over a mother and daughter.
    The father may be the invisible man, but the more "aware" half of us posting here know that he exists.


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    #382
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    recedite wrote: »
    That's typical alright. No facts, no citations. A condescending, smartarse, non-reply laced with insults and empty virtue signalling.
    Moi a condescending smartarse? Never! *pearl clutch*


    BTW: did anyone have "virtue signalling" on their bingo card?


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    #383
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Still waiting for something intelligent, but I'll be off in a minute because I am busy.


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    #384
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Tinfoil hats don't make themselves I guess!


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    #385
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    OK, see ya.


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    #386
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    recedite wrote: »
    OK, see ya.
    Maybe when you get back you can bring us like, idk, ANY evidence to support anything you've said on here? k thanks byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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    #387
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭1641


    recedite wrote: »
    Nonsense. What exactly are you referring to? The exact quote please.


    Below is a sample of some of the rubbish, slurs, innuendoes and falsehoods that you have been posting. All the relevant information regarding points for RCSI, interviews (non-existent), criteria for the bursary, when the bursary was first announced, etc. were either posted on the thread or were easily found by google search if you had been in the least bit interested in the "facts".


    As well as questioning her academically, implying some kind of stitch up, you have been trying to double guess her asylum eligibility on the basis of nothing that isn't available to the asylum assessment system or on the basis of things that are irrelevant to political asylum. Why so desperate?



    The family have certainly played the system here for all it was worth, and been incredibly successful at it.
    Did we ever see her actual Leaving Cert grades?
    I mean before applying any bonus points for the HPAT and for being a disadvantaged asylum seeker and/or attending a Deis school, and disregarding the RCSI interview which obviously went very well. Of course this is also great publicity RCSI
    Just the bare exam results. The newspaper article said she did very well in 2 subjects
    The issue is that they fled to Ireland when they saw the fees for RCSI Dubai.
    How many bonus points does somebody like that get in the CAO system, for being an asylum seeker?

    a €5000 per year salary being this new government Campbell Bursary. Which only seems to be available to certain people attending Deis schools. They girl didn't attend the nearest secondary school, she specifically went to a Deis school instead
    I'd still like to know how many points she got in the LC exam, pure and simple. The school website is not including HPAT points, but may be including other bonus points.
    Back when I did the LC exam, some people were getting bonus points for doing the exams through Irish. Now they seem to be getting them for being asylum seekers, itinerants, or just raving queers.
    The answer is No. We know that because the father decided not to leave his well paid job while the mother and daughter were off to Ireland, putting on the poor mouth.

    I wonder if the asylum office were even aware of his existence, or did the pair present as a vulnerable war widow with a child.


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    #388
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    recedite wrote: »
    The father may be the invisible man, but the more "aware" half of us posting here know that he exists.

    Obviously he exists. The daughter wasn't conceived by immaculate conception. The point generally argued is that young single men are arriving and if they're genuine refugees, why are the women and children of a family not sent to a safe country first and the fathers/men follow. I.E. what happened in this case.

    Still not satisfactory though according to some people!


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    #389
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,963 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    recedite wrote: »
    Lets cut to the chase here. Roughly half the posters on this thread seem to think the family were genuine asylum seekers, and half do not..

    Would not go that far: roughly half the posters on this thread seem to not give a **** about doxxing/probing/judging/armchair-lawyering a girl for getting ahead in your world.


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    #390
    Abel Ruiz
    Registered Users Posts: 887 ✭✭✭Abel Ruiz


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »


    Of course if it was your young wife gaining a high flying internship program in the world of high finance you'd be suitably impressed.

    How about you stop being a cnut?


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    #391
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Abel Ruiz wrote: »
    How about you stop being a cnut?

    Are you his imaginary young wife, or his imaginary career in high finance?


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