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Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭solidasarock


    morceli wrote: »
    Bit harsh there...

    I dont see any other reason for the move.

    As others have said, the DCM sold out in weeks meaning anything that wanted a entry could get one. Its not like London or Berlin that sell out in hours. Anyone disappointing because they waited a month after entry opened only had themselves to blame.

    This move is bad for local athletic clubs.
    Its bad for local small time charity runners who just want to race a few bob for their local support group.
    Its bad for joe bloggs who runs the marathon every year as a goal to keep his fitness up and to have a goal while training.


    Sure seems like it will be great for generating money for the organizers though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭morceli


    I dont see any other reason for the move.

    As others have said, the DCM sold out in weeks meaning anything that wanted a entry could get one. Its not like London or Berlin that sell out in hours. Anyone disappointing because they waited a month after entry opened only had themselves to blame.

    This move is bad for local athletic clubs.
    Its bad for local small time charity runners who just want to race a few bob for their local support group.
    Its bad for joe bloggs who runs the marathon every year as a goal to keep his fitness up and to have a goal while training.


    Sure seems like it will be great for generating money for the organizers though.
    Well saying its for the man to buy a new house is just unfair and wrong , you can criticize the event but that is out of order.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Is Jim Aughney not passing the job on soon?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,511 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    How much do we think it's actually going top be over-subscribed by? As others have pointed out, it's not Tokyo, Berlin or London. At a guess, I'd say they might be over-subscribed by 5k, so the lottery would be (again guessing optimistically), 25k entries, for 20k places (assuming 2.5k entries kept for AAI and overseas). That gives you an 80% chance of getting a spot.

    Now hypothetically (there's a lot of it in this post!), 1.5K successful entrants seek a refund in July, because they either didn't train or got injured. All of those places are released to those who didn't get in, in the first ballot round. Now your chances of getting an entry have gone up to something approximating 86% (25k entries for 21.5k places). So (based on a lot of conjecture and potentially incorrect mathematics), you have an 86% chance of getting through the ballot, plus additional opportunities via the good-for-age option. This is likely to dis-improve over time, as people just love to enter a lottery (and are lazy/forgetful about seeking refunds). Will be interesting to see how much extra money this will bring in for DCM. They wouldn't be doing it, if it was cost-neutral. Interesting to note that the cost of entry is no longer staggered - minimum pricing is €93 (including booking fee).


  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭justdoit


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Where are you hearing this, L? All the official announcement says is:

    There will be 22,500 places available for the 2020 KBC Dublin Marathon, with a number of these places allocated to Athletics Ireland membership. Athletics Ireland members will qualify under the Good For Age standards and can apply on April 1st and must have a valid Athletics Ireland membership.

    http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

    I think he was correcting my assertion that for London, somebody living in any country could apply for GFA (as opposed to referencing the new GFA system for Dublin). I caused the confusion :-)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Where are you hearing this, L? All the official announcement says is:

    There will be 22,500 places available for the 2020 KBC Dublin Marathon, with a number of these places allocated to Athletics Ireland membership. Athletics Ireland members will qualify under the Good For Age standards and can apply on April 1st and must have a valid Athletics Ireland membership.

    http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

    I was correcting the OP regarding other marathons having GFA open to all and not restricted by Nationality (or AI affiliation in this case)

    Worth noting that it is gonna make sure alot of runners pay their club dues as applies to valid AI membership which needs to be renewed each year by club after subscriptions paid :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭SeeMoreBut


    Is gfa in London require you to be a member of a club?

    Will the rule of making sure they were their club singlet be enforced also?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,374 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Cona wrote: »
    17685 runners out of 22,500 entries this year. That seems above the normal percentage of no-shows on average. I know personally of quite a few entries that were going unused last week, was thinking to myself that demand was starting to level off.

    Depends on the demand level in July on the re-sale. If they had 20000 people looking for an entry.

    First come first served should come with a June 30th deadlime to confirm. If you don't confirm by that date then put those entries into a general sale or a lottery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭nannerby


    SeeMoreBut wrote: »

    Will the rule of making sure they were their club singlet be enforced also?

    I don't think that counts in the marathon champs.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,116 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I wonder how many places will now be siphoned off to 3rd party tour providers that will gladly sell you a guaranteed place for a few hundred euro.

    Jim Aughney gonna get that second house!

    Pretty disgraceful accusation to throw out to be honest.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,203 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Very interesting comment on Facebook in reply to someone asking why not make it 30,000 entries.


    "we don't have permission for 30K but if that is what is in the system then we can go to the city and ask for 30K tharts the point of doing this/"

    Wait, so they're basically going for the oul planning retention route that some use to try circumvent laws?

    Hey guys, but we oversold by x amount, surely you can't expect us to manage the disappointment when we're the ones that purposely done it, sure you might as well let everyone run.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    SeeMoreBut wrote: »
    Is gfa in London require you to be a member of a club?

    Will the rule of making sure they were their club singlet be enforced also?

    London require you to be UK resident (proof of address required). AFAIK it's not club enforced but that is because VLM are trying to get away from clubs and make more money from the charity spots so the numbers of GFA and Championship are decreasing to make way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Wait, so they're basically going for the oul planning retention route that some use to try circumvent laws?

    Hey guys, but we oversold by x amount, surely you can't expect us to manage the disappointment when we're the ones that purposely done it, sure you might as well let everyone run.

    This happened a few years ago and to be fair it wasn't oversold it was set at 20,000 which sold out and after discussions with Gardai and CC they put together a new plan which allowed them to sell an additional 2,500 spots.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    nannerby wrote: »
    I don't think that counts in the marathon champs.

    It does unless there is prior approval from the RD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,203 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    KSU wrote: »
    This happened a few years ago and to be fair it wasn't oversold it was set at 20,000 which sold out and after discussions with Gardai and CC they put together a new plan which allowed them to sell an additional 2,500 spots.

    But this time they've admitted (assuming person who posted that speaks for the organisers) what they're up to, trying to circumvent their agreed conditions and force the hand of the city.


  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 26,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    KSU wrote: »
    London require you to be UK resident (proof of address required). AFAIK it's not club enforced but that is because VLM are trying to get away from clubs and make more money from the charity spots so the numbers of GFA and Championship are decreasing to make way.

    It's only championship entries (sub 2:45 men/sub 3:15 women) that require membership of a UK club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭tHE vAGGABOND


    I think a lot of people here need to stop throwing toys out of the pram. You may have entered the lotteries for London or another major, but hundreds of thousands of people enter them, so the chances of getting a place are quite small..

    That will not be the case here...

    And maybe giving more places to charities and turning it into more of a fundraising thing is a great thing. If 15k people raised an average of 300 quid each [only] thats 4.5 million quid for charities around the place. I've done the Ring of Kerry cycle twice, and had to get entry via a charity both times. That cash is one of the huge sources of funding for some charities around Munster.

    [Asked above, London GFA - can be any old Joe Soap, only need to prove the time and prove the uk residency. For Boston you can be from anywhere. But if you get in via GFA these days, you cannot defer entry. Run it that year or tough **** - as I would think there was *LOADS* of folks using a time [since your GFA time is only valid for 2 years] and pushing it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Hurrache wrote: »
    But this time they've admitted (assuming person who posted that speaks for the organisers) what they're up to, trying to circumvent their agreed conditions and force the hand of the city.

    Not necessarily. There is a difference between circumventing guidelines, and implementing a system that more clearly shows what the level of interest actually is.

    If DCM needs real stats and figures to justify expansion then having X amount of entries to a lottery is one way to do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Cona


    Its quite funny to see how they are dealing with the backlash on FB. The announcement says that the lottery system will give no precedence to previous runners of the marathon. But in the comments section, the organizers are saying that loyalty will be a top priority.

    Looks like they didnt think this one throught fully yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭tomwaits48


    If DCM announced they would pay €100 per person to run the race you would have people moaning it wasn't enough.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Cona wrote: »
    Its quite funny to see how they are dealing with the backlash on FB. The announcement says that the lottery system will give no precedence to previous runners of the marathon. But in the comments section, the organizers are saying that loyalty will be a top priority.

    Looks like they didnt think this one throught fully yet.

    Yeah i think they announced it too early.

    Obviously they will have to give x amount of places to the clubs to match the number of volunteers the clubs provide, but not just for the marathon, but also the race series.

    It will sort itself out, just some people are over reacting and panicking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭6run28


    Very disappointing move. It seems quite unnecessary seeing as it took over a month to sell out last year. Cutting the early bird ( ie the regular runners) instantly gets them gets them an extra €210k by using lottery only system. If they needed stats for increasing size, a waiting list for transfers would do this. Hopefully it doesnt turn into a fancy dress parade like London


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    6run28 wrote: »
    Very disappointing move. It seems quite unnecessary seeing as it took over a month to sell out last year. Cutting the early bird ( ie the regular runners) instantly gets them gets them an extra €210k by using lottery only system. If they needed stats for increasing size, a waiting list for transfers would do this. Hopefully it doesnt turn into a fancy dress parade like London

    Unfortunately a fancy dress parade is the ultimate destination.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭TheW1zard


    Bananaleaf wrote: »
    TheW1zard this isn't directed at you personally, but this, in my opinion, is the problem with it being just the €15 to enter.

    Listened to a podcast interview with Jim Aughney where he was asked about the potential rise of the number to 30,000 participants. He cited logistical problems as a reason for being reluctant to do so. Things such as the wait those numbers would cause in the expo for number collection. But, another thing he said has me thinking. He said that it isn't as simple as just saying to the council and the gardai that they want to open it up to 30k participants. They'd have to prove they were able.

    Presumably they would also have to prove the demand was there. Maybe the ballot is part of a wider plan to gauge interest with the possibility of expanding DCM?

    I'm sure someone more experienced than me (not hard, ha) will know

    I agree that id be adding to the problem, loads of people will do this. Then, itll be booked out by all the lotto winners that decide not to do it.

    I never had a problem with how they did it previously and always bought a ticket in time. Surely its about money and not not getting backlash.

    So its 90euro 1st wave now already??


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,374 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    TheW1zard wrote: »
    I agree that id be adding to the problem, loads of people will do this. Then, itll be booked out by all the lotto winners that decide not to do it.

    I never had a problem with how they did it previously and always bought a ticket in time. Surely its about money and not not getting backlash.

    So its 90euro 1st wave now already??



    Lottery winners get a deadline to pay and if they don't then next in line gets an entry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    buy 2 tickets for the lottery?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,203 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    If DCM needs real stats and figures to justify expansion then having X amount of entries to a lottery is one way to do it.

    Maybe, but the fact that it sells out so quickly and a high demand for numbers afterwards is pretty evident in itself. They'll also have a record of hits on their entry site too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I think a lot of people here need to stop throwing toys out of the pram. You may have entered the lotteries for London or another major, but hundreds of thousands of people enter them, so the chances of getting a place are quite small..

    That will not be the case here...

    And maybe giving more places to charities and turning it into more of a fundraising thing is a great thing. If 15k people raised an average of 300 quid each [only] thats 4.5 million quid for charities around the place. I've done the Ring of Kerry cycle twice, and had to get entry via a charity both times. That cash is one of the huge sources of funding for some charities around Munster.

    [Asked above, London GFA - can be any old Joe Soap, only need to prove the time and prove the uk residency. For Boston you can be from anywhere. But if you get in via GFA these days, you cannot defer entry. Run it that year or tough **** - as I would think there was *LOADS* of folks using a time [since your GFA time is only valid for 2 years] and pushing it out.

    Charity route is just garbage excuse. Do you think people want to keep asking friends and family for money to run a race every year.

    They should be made clear where the places are going. 15000k to lottery. 5k to aai. 1k to kbc or whatever.


    Turning into another typical event that when it gets big it forgets it’s loyalty. Like turning the Celtic tiger customer service died a death


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Maybe, but the fact that it sells out so quickly and a high demand for numbers afterwards is pretty evident in itself. They'll also have a record of hits on their entry site too.

    Sure, but self evident might not be enough if some councillor is demanding definite facts and figures. High demand is a vague term and hits on a website mean very little, even a waiting list will be full of people who just put their name down for the hell of it and won't follow through, I know that one from experience.

    By far the best way to gauge serious interest is to get people to put their money where their mouth is, and paying to enter the lottery does that.

    If that is the real reason of course, I hope it is, because the other claims don't hold water.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭6run28


    Also there doesnt seem to be a contingency if lottery is undersold ? Less than 20k of places were sold by end of November last year when lottery applications close this year


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