Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

ooter

Murph_D wrote: »

Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years?

i was thinking more in terms of the changes for 2020.

robinph

Murph_D wrote: »

Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years?

Until the last couple of years it fully catered for people who at the last minute decided to give it a go and sign up a month in advance, sure how hard can it be. The move to the Sunday has made it much more attractive to international runners, and meant that you've had to plan months in advance or a year in advance for this years event. That is then only a certain type of person putting themselves in for that, although there will be a bunch entering just for a laugh a year in advance there will only be a small number of them who then actually follow through.

For 2020 though it is going to be significantly shifted towards people who have run the event before, even more than it might previously have a significant proportion who had run any other marathon before. New international runners are going to be few and far between for next year, and new marathon runners are going to be limited in numbers as well.

Depending on what they then end up doing with the entry system for 2021 it might just be a one off (plenty of totally new and experienced runners take part in London each year which has been oversubscribed since year 1), but they really should start thinking about how they are going to run the entry process for 2021 asap after they have finished with the GFA and championship entries for 2020 and not try an figure out the process based on firefighting against a storm of posts on Facebook and Twitter in the days after the 2020 event and with only days before they open the entry for 2021.

Talking amongst themselves to try and find an acceptable solution to the entry system is probably not the way forward based on the evidence of the 2020 process and they should think about bringing in some people with other ideas, but equally creating the entry process in a couple of days based on Facebook posts isn't the way either. The DCM and AI on their own do not have wide enough a spectrum of views to come up with an equitable solution, and doing the same for 2021 as they did for 2020 is definitely not the right answer.

tHE vAGGABOND

Seperate start / finish area for the folk slower than 4 hours [or so] - but how would you enforce that, and ensure that a sizable number of folk actually did it.

the royal hospital killmainham is good and has plenty of space - as used for RnR; run around D8 or Quays and join the run somewhere around the Park or NCR

robinph

A separate start for different speeds of runners doesn't help with anything it just creates the same problems in two different places. If you split the field evenly between the two starts and have them merge a couple of miles in once people have spread out the that eases the congestion.

Other than blokes running faster than 2:45, the two starts at London marathon are pretty equivalent in the paces of the runners in each (ignore the green start). There are a few more daft and very slow costumed runners in the red charity start, but other than that they are very similar.

Murph_D

https://www.corkathletics.org/news/1549-national-marathon-entry-2020-entry-update.html

HelenAnne

ooter wrote: »

interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."

To be fair though, even with the 2020 lottery system and the GFA etc it's still going to be WAY more accessible than the pre-1980 situation Louis Hogan is referring to in the book (70 fast lads with big moustaches and short shorts racing each other around the back roads somewhere down the country, no water allowed, 3.00 considered slow etc etc) The Dublin Marathon has done so much to democratise running, even if there are issue with next year's entry, it's nothing like the old days where people would throw things at runners and women were getting expelled from the legion of Mary for running in shorts.

(Hope you're enjoying the book )

SeeMoreBut

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

28064212

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

Hamish Adams told the meeting that Athletics Ireland had NOT been consulted on the entry restrictions, or Good For Age criteria for Athletics Ireland members

SeeMoreBut

28064212 wrote: »

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

Wouldn’t be the first ceo to not tell the truth.

I’m just saying what I heard from someone who spoke to someone involved in the running of it.

What interest have the marathon got in gfa as you need to be in a club for starters when the marathon is not run by the aai.

Marathon only want to full their places. Aai are looking for spots for their members. Why would they put in this rule.

nannerby

Because the whole lottery thing has been handled badly from the start.

RacoonQueen

28064212 wrote: »

The link two posts before yours says the exact opposite, quoting the CEO of AAI:

It's not surprising. Feels like they made the decision to do a lottery directly after this years race and didn't think it through.

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

Wouldn’t be the first ceo to not tell the truth.

I’m just saying what I heard from someone who spoke to someone involved in the running of it.

Seriously? Sure it wouldn't be surprising for someone who was part of the ridiculous communication of this decision to lie about it to cover their tracks.

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

What interest have the marathon got in gfa as you need to be in a club for starters when the marathon is not run by the aai.

Marathon only want to full their places. Aai are looking for spots for their members. Why would they put in this rule.

The marathon and AI have a long standing agreement that the National Championships are part of this race. For a very long time, when the race did not sell out, the marathon got an entry bump because of this. I would imagine the marathon also get a financial incentive from AI for hosting the National Champs and would have done for many years.
Dublin Athletics board and Leinster Athletics would, presumably, have similar agreements with the marathon organisers to host Dublin and Leinster marathon champs.

SeeMoreBut

RacoonQueen wrote: »

It's not surprising. Feels like they made the decision to do a lottery directly after this years race and didn't think it through.






Seriously? Sure it wouldn't be surprising for someone who was part of the ridiculous communication of this decision to lie about it to cover their tracks.






The marathon and AI have a long standing agreement that the National Championships are part of this race. For a very long time, when the race did not sell out, the marathon got an entry bump because of this. I would imagine the marathon also get a financial incentive from AI for hosting the National Champs and would have done for many years.
Dublin Athletics board and Leinster Athletics would, presumably, have similar agreements with the marathon organisers to host Dublin and Leinster marathon champs.

They are not one for slinging mud but they had an awful week so probably best to leave as is than start fights.

Imagine if the aai came out and said we set the times. Probably cause another discussion. Why say anything when marathon crew are talking every thing.

Let’s hope everyone learns from this

robinph

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

I heard the qualifying times was set by the AAI and not the marathon crew.

Other than separately listing a younger age category as well, it's a straight copy and paste from London Marathon GFA times.

Murph_D

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

They are not one for slinging mud but they had an awful week so probably best to leave as is than start fights.

Imagine if the aai came out and said we set the times. Probably cause another discussion. Why say anything when marathon crew are talking every thing.

Let’s hope everyone learns from this

Athletics Ireland are clearly saying Dublin Marathon set the GFA times. Presumably DM would deny this if it’s not true. I haven’t seen any such denial. So let’s assume that DM did set the times, and what you heard from someone who knows someone who knows someone else may not actually be true. Cork Athletics present a stronger case, based on an actual meeting that people were at, and named names, with quotes, afterwards.

The cut and paste London GFA ‘intervention’ always looked (to me) like the work of someone not too clued in about the relationship between GFA and race demand. Almost like someone googled “good for age marathon” and just went with the result at the top of the list.

Surely not. I have no doubt these standards will be dropped. In fact, they have already been changed.

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

Maybe best to avoid “I heard somewhere that...” and look at authentic information.

Glencarraig

Murph_D wrote: »

Athletics Ireland are clearly saying Dublin Marathon set the GFA times. Presumably DM would deny this if it’s not true. I haven’t seen any such denial. So let’s assume that DM did set the times, and what you heard from someone who knows someone who knows someone else may not actually be true. Cork Athletics present a stronger case, based on an actual meeting that people were at, and named names, with quotes, afterwards.

The cut and paste London GFA ‘intervention’ always looked (to me) like the work of someone not too clued in about the relationship between GFA and race demand. Almost like someone googled “good for age marathon” and just went with the result at the top of the list.

Surely not. I have no doubt these standards will be dropped. In fact, they have already been changed.

http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/2020-entry-process/

Maybe best to avoid “I heard somewhere that...” and look at authentic information.

My age cat 65 - 69) has gone out by 40 minutes, probably because of the entire entries this year in said age cat only 10 would have qualified for 2020.

yerrahbah

Reminder

https://twitter.com/irishathletics/status/1200132291844100097

mutley18

Sorry if it has been asked already but do we know how many entries are left for the lottery after previous entrants snapped up their loyalty places? Was this released?

rovers_runner

mutley18 wrote: »

Sorry if it has been asked already but do we know how many entries are left for the lottery after previous entrants snapped up their loyalty places? Was this released?

22500 - places
-16100 previous entrants
-3000 AAI championship places /GFA places

---

3400 ballot places approximately


Allegedly.....

mutley18

rovers_runner wrote: »

22500 - places
-16100 previous entrants
-3000 AAI championship places /GFA places

---

3400 ballot places approximately


Allegedly.....

Thank you! I wont hold my breath then

Dudda

I presume we've no info yet on how many entered the ballot? Was kind of hoping they'd announce something once the entry deadline passed.

rovers_runner

Dudda wrote: »

I presume we've no info yet on how many entered the ballot? Was kind of hoping they'd announce something once the entry deadline passed.

They would be in discussions with DCC and AGS at them moment to push for an increase in number I would think.

robinph

I predict an extra couple of thousand places being released a couple of months after the ballot results are announced, which will result in more outrage as people have to enter another lottery for those places and people who missed out on the initial lottery kick off about missing out and having made alternative arrangements.

Plenty more chances to get things not quite right in the process of allocating places for the 2020 event yet. They have good aims in what they are looking to do, but not quite enough idea of what will go wrong as they try to figure it all out on the fly.

sideswipe

robinph wrote: »

I predict an extra couple of thousand places being released a couple of months after the ballot results are announced, which will result in more outrage as people have to enter another lottery for those places and people who missed out on the initial lottery kick off about missing out and having made alternative arrangements.

Plenty more chances to get things not quite right in the process of allocating places for the 2020 event yet. They have good aims in what they are looking to do, but not quite enough idea of what will go wrong as they try to figure it all out on the fly.

I wonder how overseas runners will be accommodated? Part of the idea of expanding the race and moving to Sunday was to boost the economy with an influx of visitors from abroad, The current system doesn't rally allow for this at all.

robinph

sideswipe wrote: »

I wonder how overseas runners will be accommodated? Part of the idea of expanding the race and moving to Sunday was to boost the economy with an influx of visitors from abroad, The current system doesn't rally allow for this at all.

Absolutely, the only reason I knew that I'd need to be on the ball with getting my entry in was due to hanging out in these parts. I would expect that even though the previous three years of entries will have had a guaranteed place, the numbers of international participants will be down for 2020. Having 24 hours to make the decision to take their option of a place of flying over for a marathon in a years time isn't something that people would have been anticipating. Only that I have other excuses to justify scheduling in a flight or ferry over or I likely wouldn't have bothered entering.

Dudda

So from tomorrow 3rd until next Friday 10th those of us who entered the lottery will start to learn our what lies ahead for the year.

TaurenDruid

It's like the old joke about asking for directions in Ireland...

"Well, if I wanted to get there, I wouldn't start from here..."

kilns

Anyone received entries yet?

amacca

What's this about loyalty places? Is it just 2019 entrants can avail of that or any past entrants

TaurenDruid

amacca wrote: »

What's this about loyalty places? Is it just 2019 entrants can avail of that or any past entrants

If you ran in the past three years, you could have claimed a space up to... last December, I think? The window has closed now.

rovers_runner

Looks like they are going to SMS a code to people, must have been over subscribed so, no word if they had any luck with DCC and AGS so must have hit a wall there.

https://eventmaster.ie/event/EDqu4EF74