Paying for sex

kiki_the_third

Canelo Kovalev wrote: »

On what basis are you saying most sex workers are vulnerable? How do you know this?

I an not refuting that is the case, but if you are making the assertion I would expect there is a basis for it.

If you want to shag prostitutes that's your business.

I can't post links because I'm a new user but there is plenty of research out there into the connection between IV drug use and prostitution and into sex trafficking. Spend about five minutes googling it.

dotsman

FurtherAway wrote: »

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533-3.html

Even before reading that article, I knew the article would be ridiculously biased. And when reading it, it becomes abundantly clear. I don't know the authors, but I do know one thing about them - they were against prostitution before they wrote that article, and intended for the article to be completely one-sided, in both its arguments and its content.

leggo

“Give me proof human trafficking exists!”
“Here’s proof.”
“The proof is wrong! I’m the good person!”

dotsman

Ultimately, there is a lot more to controlling human trafficking that simply decriminalising prostitution (but keeping it relatively in the shadows. Decriminalising homosexuality didn't immediately stop the abuse, but it lay the foundation for gay people to fight for their rights. Decriminalisation is just the first step. Proper regulation, and more importantly, social acceptance of prostitution is the key.

You can see it in this thread, the majority of people look down on those involved - both the prostitutes and the clients. Until people can get over their conservative views on sex and prostitution, it will always be underground and rife with abuse.

Naggdefy

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it seen as wrong? Sex is considered a need like food, water, shelter yet paying for it is considered immoral, desperate, offensive to women, etc....

The "it spreads STD's argument" doesn't add up because many escorts get tested more often than typical couples.

Are you being paid a fee per thread you start.. I've never seen anything like it!

dotsman

leggo wrote: »

“Give me proof human trafficking exists!”
“Here’s proof.”
“The proof is wrong! I’m the good person!”

Anyone asking for proof that human trafficking exists has the IQ of a house fly. Anyone who thinks that's what anybody on this thread is asking for has clearly missed the mark.

leggo

Conservative attitudes towards people who use prostitutes? I’ve heard it all now! Go on, start comparing your ‘struggles’ to the discrimination experienced by black or gay people next. Would somebody please think of the warty lads who want the ride but can’t be arsed getting a gym membership slobbering over some poor addict girl who’ll literally do anything for their next hit?

mr_fegelien

Naggdefy wrote: »

Are you being paid a fee per thread you start.. I've never seen anything like it!

What do you mean...lol. I just like to answer questions. Remember jeanjolie in 2017? He asked so many questions as well. I'm the reincarnation.

endacl

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What do you mean...lol. I just like to answer questions. Remember jeanjolie in 2017? He asked so many questions as well. I'm the reincarnationreg.

Starting to make sense...

dotsman

leggo wrote: »

Conservative attitudes towards people who use prostitutes? I’ve heard it all now! Go on, start comparing your ‘struggles’ to the discrimination experienced by black or gay people next. Would somebody please think of the warty lads who want the ride but can’t be arsed getting a gym membership slobbering over some poor addict girl who’ll literally do anything for their next hit?

Your posts really show that, not only do you not have a clue about what you are talking about, but you also have no desire to contribute to the thread. Goodnight.

lozenges

For a large proportion of sex workers - not all - choosing to work in prostitution is like choosing to work in a sweatshop. It is a choice made by people in very straitened circumstances with minimal - no alternative options.
Does that mean it should be illegal? No, because clearly some people are making a free choice to do it. But it should be recognised that they are potentially a highly vulnerable group of workers. Therefore it should be highly regulated. Specifically:
Sex work only to occur in licensed premises
Unannounced spot checks on said premises
Extremely punitive fines if substandard working/health and safety conditions
Mandatory condom use
Mandatory free PrEP to be provided to sex workers by those running premises
Mandatory free LARCs to be provided to female sex workers by those running premises.

Also some earlier asked what about male sex workers. I cannot find any data on this but logically, given the free availability of casual sexual encounters for gay and bisexual men on platforms such as grindr I would suspect that they are even likely to be more vulnerable to abuse than female sex workers.

Oh, and if some of the people on this thread advocating for legalisation would stop referring to sex workers as 'brazzers' and implying they are damaged goods it would lend more credence to their argument.

leggo

dotsman wrote: »

Your posts really show that, not only do you not have a clue about what you are talking about, but you also have no desire to contribute to the thread. Goodnight.

The following is indisputable:

The consent someone who uses a prostitute has is paid for. It has not been obtained because they actually wanted to sleep with them. It’s not rape but it is purchased, unlawful consent and not actual, enthusiastic consent. Feel free to read the AMA people here swear on as bible if you don’t believe me: even the prostitute who saw it as just another job put on an act to make every client feel like their favourite. They saw it as a transaction and wouldn’t sleep with clients they were actually interested in. And that’s sourced from someone who seems pretty balanced and level-headed in an industry filled with vulnerable workers.

That’s not a ‘conservative view’, that’s a factual observation.

Reviews and Books Galore

leggo wrote: »

Conservative attitudes towards people who use prostitutes? I’ve heard it all now! Go on, start comparing your ‘struggles’ to the discrimination experienced by black or gay people next. Would somebody please think of the warty lads who want the ride but can’t be arsed getting a gym membership slobbering over some poor addict girl who’ll literally do anything for their next hit?

Again, you have a very strange view on the dynamics at play.



Perhaps it's a businessman who drives a rolls royce with such a high sex drive that no one woman can quench it? Or just a guy who wants to explore fantisies?



I'm also curious why people think people shouldn't become prostitutes because of mental illness?

Reviews and Books Galore

leggo wrote: »

The following is indisputable:

The consent someone who uses a prostitute has is paid for. It has not been obtained because they actually wanted to sleep with them. It’s not rape but it is purchased, unlawful consent and not actual, enthusiastic consent. Feel free to read the AMA people here swear on as bible if you don’t believe me: even the prostitute who saw it as just another job put on an act to make every client feel like their favourite. They saw it as a transaction and wouldn’t sleep with clients they were actually interested in. And that’s sourced from someone who seems pretty balanced and level-headed in an industry filled with vulnerable workers.

That’s not a ‘conservative view’, that’s a factual observation.

So under the Dublin Rape Crisis centre's definition it is rape.



I wonder how long are we going to put up with this changing the notion of consent malarky?

Reviews and Books Galore

kiki_the_third wrote: »

Also, and it's hard to believe that this even has to be said - all human trafficking is bad. There is no level of human trafficking that I'm okay with.

Being trafficked into the sex industry is arguably one of the worst forms of it, but none of them are acceptable.

If your argument is "I'm okay with women being forced into prostitution because sometimes men are forced to do unpleasant jobs", I suggest you take a long, hard look at yourself.[/QUOTE]


:rolleyes:

leggo

leggo wrote: »

The following is indisputable:

The consent someone who uses a prostitute has is paid for. It has not been obtained because they actually wanted to sleep with them. It’s not rape but it is purchased, unlawful consent and not actual, enthusiastic consent. Feel free to read the AMA people here swear on as bible if you don’t believe me: even the prostitute who saw it as just another job put on an act to make every client feel like their favourite. They saw it as a transaction and wouldn’t sleep with clients they were actually interested in. And that’s sourced from someone who seems pretty balanced and level-headed in an industry filled with vulnerable workers.

That’s not a ‘conservative view’, that’s a factual observation.

Actually leggo, they DO want to sleep with the person, because they want the financial benefit. If they are willing to have sex (and are not being forced to), despite not being attracted or interested personally to the other person, that is still consent.

You don't always need to be enthusiastic to consent to sex.

leggo

leggo wrote: »

Conservative attitudes towards people who use prostitutes? I’ve heard it all now! Go on, start comparing your ‘struggles’ to the discrimination experienced by black or gay people next. Would somebody please think of the warty lads who want the ride but can’t be arsed getting a gym membership slobbering over some poor addict girl who’ll literally do anything for their next hit?

Oh Christ. are you going down this privilege route now? Tell us how evil straight white men are and how your "struggle" only matters if you are from a group of people you have deemed to be "oppressed".

You posts are literally textbook memes that people use if they want to parody the fabled "SJW".

"Warty lads"? Jesus, careful or you will have to start giving out to yourself for body shaming.

nkl12xtw5goz70

leggo wrote: »

Conservative attitudes towards people who use prostitutes? I’ve heard it all now! Go on, start comparing your ‘struggles’ to the discrimination experienced by black or gay people next.

Black and gay people use prostitutes too.

Madalynn Hundreds Traveller

Madalynn Hundreds Traveller wrote: »

Black and gay people use prostitutes too.

Yeah but that's ok

dvdman1

JupiterKid wrote: »

So what do you think of gay men who have regular sex with different partners, even - believe it or not - in consensual open relationships with their long-term partners/husbands? Does it **** them up too?

Stop projecting your own morality onto others. What others do with respect to their sex lives in really none of your business.

Its you thats projecting your mortality, last time i checked prostitution is illegal here. Your train of though only encourages more of this....of the countries that have legalised it they have seen an increase...prostitution doesnt offer anything positive to irish society

dvdman1

dvdman1 wrote: »

Its you thats projecting your mortality, last time i checked prostitution is illegal here. Your train of though only encourages more of this....of the countries that have legalised it they have seen an increase...prostitution doesnt offer anything positive to irish society

I think paraphrasing the line of the pro choice camp will fit this:

"If you don't want to hire a prostitute, don't. Making it legal, accessible and safe for others doesn't affect your ability to not use one".

dvdman1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think paraphrasing the line of the pro choice camp will fit this:

"If you don't want to hire a prostitute, don't. Making it legal, accessible and safe for others doesn't affect your ability to not use one".

We live in a collective...its called society, what 1 does can have a knock on affect to others.
So are you going to encourage career guidance to list prostitution as a job for potential pupils?

Andreas77

Before I met ex-wife I organised with about thirty women for sex through old-fashioned classifieds (paper magazine). Activities involved doggy style, deep throat, ass-to-mouth, scooping, doctor/nurse roleplay, sex in multi-storey carpark, natural history museum, sex toys, dilation, ass play, mutual masturbation, double edge dildos. Typically these women were between thirty five and forty five, many attractive, a few grizzled ones. I was in mid twenties and never before I had seen so many shaking booties and boobies and toys except in the movies.

Reviews and Books Galore

Andreas77 wrote: »

Before I met ex-wife I organised with about thirty women for sex through old-fashioned classifieds (paper magazine). Activities involved doggy style, deep throat, ass-to-mouth, scooping, doctor/nurse roleplay, sex in multi-storey carpark, natural history museum, sex toys, dilation, ass play, mutual masturbation, double edge dildos. Typically these women were between thirty five and forty five, many attractive, a few grizzled ones. I was in mid twenties and never before I had seen so many shaking booties and boobies and toys except in the movies.

Did you pay or was it unpaid?

randd1

dvdman1 wrote: »

We live in a collective...its called society, what 1 does can have a knock on affect to others.
So are you going to encourage career guidance to list prostitution as a job for potential pupils?

If the money was good enough, it would surely be worth considering.

Ultimately it should be up to people themselves to decided whether they want to be paid or pay for sex. If both parties are agreeable, what's the harm to society?

The only ones that seem to have a problem with prostitution are those who's sensibilities are such that they see it as grubby or amoral. Good for you. Of course other people may see it completely differently.

Legislate, regulate and educate is the obvious way to go, let consenting adults decide for themselves what they want to do, and if it's a business transaction then treat it as a business and tax it. If anybody has a problem with it, then they should simply not pay for sex.

It's about time in this country we let adults decide for themselves what they want to so long as it doesn't hurt other people rather than taking the ban because I dislike approach to matters we've always had.

Don't like it? Don't do it. It's very simple really.

partyguinness

Andreas77 wrote: »

Before I met ex-wife I organised with about thirty women for sex through old-fashioned classifieds (paper magazine). Activities involved doggy style, deep throat, ass-to-mouth, scooping, doctor/nurse roleplay, sex in multi-storey carpark, natural history museum, sex toys, dilation, ass play, mutual masturbation, double edge dildos. Typically these women were between thirty five and forty five, many attractive, a few grizzled ones. I was in mid twenties and never before I had seen so many shaking booties and boobies and toys except in the movies.

The natural history museum? you sick bastard.

Ironicname

dvdman1 wrote:

We live in a collective...its called society, what 1 does can have a knock on affect to others. So are you going to encourage career guidance to list prostitution as a job for potential pupils?

Why would he do that?

Hotblack Desiato

Ironicname wrote: »

Why would he do that?

Never mind, it's just one of the many stupid arguments they use because they don't have any better ones.

dvdman1

Ironicname wrote: »

Why would he do that?

My point is the slow decline of any sort of morals as a society at whole...maybe in the future, a career guidance might suggest that!... and under Irelands slow declining path they may very well get away with encouraging this.

In this "personal choice decides everything" society, sure we'll have Drs suggesting Euthanasia of the old parents who cant talk, get your inheritance quicker yeee.

So many choices isn't life wonderful were all so grown up and adult like.

dvdman1

dvdman1 wrote: »

My point is the slow decline of any sort of morals as a society at whole...maybe in the future, a career guidance might suggest that!... and under Irelands slow declining path they may very well get away with encouraging this.

In this "personal choice decides everything" society, sure we'll have Drs suggesting Euthanasia of the old parents who cant talk, get your inheritance quicker yeee.

So many choices isn't life wonderful were all so grown up and adult like.

I wouldn't encourage a Career Guidance Councillor to promote prostitution. Why would I? I don't encourage them to promote Abortion Doctor, I don't encourage them to promote distiller, I don't encourage them to promote anything!

What a ridiculous assumption to make.

Euthanasia is an interesting one.

With proper legislation (that I am unsure of what would fully constitute as "proper) I think I would be in favour of it.

What level of freedom do you think you should have on your own body (once it doesn't hurt someone else)?