Analogue Pocket

Retr0gamer

Yeah it's not like the duo where the PC engines have dodgy caps and a cd drive thats garbage. N64 seem to be built to last until the sun goes supernova and are two a penny on the used market. Don't see any point in this since I've an RGB modded jpn console and an everdrive. A Duo on the other hand would tempt me if I had the money.

Colonel Panic

I've been playing the N64 quite a bit lately and it has some brilliant games, but they don't really look that great even via S-Video or RGB and I couldn't tolerate them upscaled via the RetroTink 5x.

I'm sure it'll be a great console though, when you wade through Analogue's wanky marketing.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246916#Comment_121246916

Yeah agreed, it'll be a polished device that does exactly as advertised no doubt. If they're smart about this, the unit will feature an analogue out option, because with the quirks of the N64, modern display options don't tend to play to its strengths.

I've a fondness for the N64, and a very select group of games for it, so in that sense, it's great to have options like this. If you're the type to want to use original carts, and run them via fpga, this does seem great. As retr0 says, the N64 is riding high at the mo, so this will probably come at the right time for Analogue.

I would be surprised though if the Mister core isn't nigh on perfect by the time these Analogue units are in the hands of customers.

bugs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121246975#Comment_121246975

I'm guessing analog will be paying for that mister core or a port thereof. In the same way their NGPC core will be released for the pocket (when jotego finishes it).

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247180#Comment_121247180

I was wondering that, as in, they've hardly been developing a secret bespoke N64 core have they? I'd be surprised to see the fpgazumspass core being used in a boutique commercial product, especially when it could be argued that core has Patreon money behind it too.

There's been zero hint of a paid for port by Robert, the developer. I imagine it'd be trivial enough for him to do if they provided all the docs and I'd love to see him being rewarded for his amazing contributions....but the core isn't finished yet, and he seems to devote a lot of his time to it, so I don't know where the port would come from unless a third party with Roberts blessing?

Inviere

"At least they left out "NO EMULATION" this time."

I take it back, they said it once again 😔

"Analogue 3D is not designed using software emulation. It is designed using a specialty hardware chip called an FPGA, which operates on a transistor level implementation of its functionality."

^^ I'd be utterly amazed if this core was produced without the help of any software emulation knowledge or learnings.

Retr0gamer

It's kind of crazy how much love the n64 is getting, way more than the ps1 which was pretty much ubiquitous and also arguably the best console ever made.

McDermotX

Some more information direct from Chris Taber (Analogue founder, 8bitdo etc)

Usual marketing aims etc, so usual pinch of salt

https://www.pastemagazine.com/games/analogue/analogues-next-retro-game-console-is-a-4k-nintendo-64

Taber suggests an “early 2024” reveal of many more details about Analogue 3D. That includes the form factor, which Taber insists is complete and “in production.” For now, we did our best to corner Taber and squeeze out as many confirmed details about the N64-mimicking system as we can, all listed below:

● Anything that connects to the N64 via its cartridge expansion slot (cartridge pak, rumble pak, transfer pak, or even the very rare Bio-Sensor that came with Tetris 64 in Japan) will work with Analogue 3D, so long as players connect an original N64 gamepad to the system. Modern gamepad manufacturer 8BitDo is creating a wireless N64-styled controller in honor of the Analogue 3D, but it does not appear to include its own cartridge expansion slot.

● In the event that you need to save with a cartridge pak but don’t have one, Taber says that Analogue 3D will have your back in the form of “save states.” This computationally expensive feature isn’t always a given on FPGA systems, so it will be interesting to see how it works here.

● The relatively rare 64DD add-on, exclusive to Japan, will not natively connect to Analogue 3D. Taber suggests that “community developed” connection options will work instead.

● Analogue 3D will include a ton of gamepad options. Four original N64 controllers can connect via the system’s four built-in ports. On top of that, the system will include two USB Type-A ports and will support four additional wireless controllers via either Bluetooth or 2.4 GHz wireless. “Wireless controller support will be everything Analogue Dock supports and more,” Taber says.

● Select system-level visual effects can be disabled on a menu level if users would like, particularly the N64’s infamous anti-aliasing glaze.

● By default, Analogue 3D will run N64 games at their native speeds, complete with frame rate slowdowns (we’re looking at you, Goldeneye 007 four-player split-screen). Taber suggests that optional toggles will enable “overclocking, running smoother, eliminating native frame dips,” and other performance-specific tweaks.

● The N64’s optional 4MB RAM “expansion pak” will be built into Analogue 3D and enabled by default. Users can go into a menu to disable the expansion pak if they want to disable its features in select games.

● Analogue 3D will support the same firmware-update process as prior Analogue systems, via a microSD port. Taber suggests that “some new methods of updating” will be announced at a later date. (Analogue has never formally announced “jailbreak” support for its older systems, which have allowed system owners to load ROM files via microSD cards instead of physical cartridges to play games, but each has eventually received a jailbreak of some kind.)

● Taber says the Analogue 3D will only support “pure N64 and the original legacy ecosystem surrounding it, nothing else.” It will not include any fork of the “openFPGA” system found on Analogue Pocket

bugs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247283#Comment_121247283

Jotego's cores are funded by Patreon but are ported to the pocket and while I've only ever seen mention that these ports are developed freely for analog, I'm going to guess there is a return for the developer in some way or another.

Timing of this product seems a little too co-incidental, but perhaps someone else is working on it.

In the end though, if the core developers are getting more support and a wider audience is brought into the medium, I see no problem whatsoever.

Retr0gamer

Computationally expensive save state.... Sure.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248162#Comment_121248162

That is actually valid. Currently the Mister N64 core doesn't support them as they're being left until later on. Robert wants to finish the core first, and at this stage, isnt certain if the DE10 has enough physical space to support them.

This could mean a few things, the Analogue 3D is using a larger fpga than the DE10, the core is not simply the Mister core ported, or they're using some type of hybrid trickery for things like save states.

It'll be interesting to see what they're doing.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247814#Comment_121247814

That's true re Jotego cores, good point. Are they compatible with a stock Pocket, or are they for OpenFPGA only? This new Analogue 3D isn't OpenFPGA compatible, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

At this stage, I'm betting they've employed someone to develop their own N64 core. If you've been following fpgazumspass work on Discord, you'll see he's entirely focused on Mister. If it turns out he's developing for Mister and Analogue, I'd have to question his credentials as a mere human 🤔☺️

Colonel Panic

The JT cores live under the OpenFPGA menu on the pocket, but if your firmware is up to date, that menu option is always there, albeit empty unless you set up an SD card with the required files.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248345#Comment_121248345

I see. I suppose then this situation is slightly different in that the Analogue 3D is walled off with only Analogue OS compatibility, meaning it'd be a bit rich to fence off community supported cores that way. Does that strengthen the notion that this N64 core has been privately developed? Possibly yeah. Completely their choice then with regard how they use it.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121248379#Comment_121248379

The analogue is is open on the pocket. I'd say they are just covering themselves and we will see all sorts of cores on the thing shortly after release.

CiDeRmAn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247498#Comment_121247498

You seem to have made a mistake there, shouldn't that read "... way more than the ps2 which was pretty much ubiquitous and also arguably the best console ever made"

You're welcome!

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121355578#Comment_121355578

It's why I said arguably. I'd include PS2 as arguably the best console as well!

Although that's more agreeably than arguably.

CiDeRmAn

Indeed, between them you can play both Legend of Dragoon and Firewarrior!

McDermotX

Another round of "Limited Editions" in a couple days on the 17th. Shipping a couple days after.

Where's me adapters ? Even pink ones

Colonel Panic

Oooh, the Indigo is a very satisfying colour.

McDermotX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372087#Comment_121372087

Aye....it's not too bad, but something I always think........how come they've still never gone with a proper DMG scheme ?

Saving that for the 'Limited, Limited Edition'

Inviere

Are those pass through adapters STILL not out?? I mean, they're literal passthroughs are they not? (Ie, some plastic and some connectors)

McDermotX

Not yet......still saying ships 2023 (New Years Eve I'd say, along with the Duos)

Still presume it's the underlying core (NGP specifically) that's the hold-up. Jotego has his own issues with a beta never mind something propping up a commercial product (or perhaps under direction from Analogue to extend the conspiracy theory🤨)....Either way, there's still no way to play NG

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372531#Comment_121372531

Yeah that'd certainly explain the NGP ones alright. Wasn't there other ones though, like GG?

McDermotX

Aye. The GG one came out the same time as the original Pocket shipments, and works great TBH. Think it's popped in and out of regular shipment since then.

Lynx, PCE and NGP are sold as a complete pack though, so while the PCE is already catered for via OpenFPGA, the other two are still unsupported.

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121372801#Comment_121372801

Yeah, definitely seems like the NGP is the hold up here.

CiDeRmAn

How much did people get hit with, in terms of shipping and duty?

McDermotX

Someone who has got something more recent from them might have a better idea but I'd say you'll pay 350 euro or thereabouts.

230 plus for the Pocket, approx 70 and change for the duty, and they have a habit of going full whack for the UPS of 50. I know they realigned pricing for US deliveries recently, but Europe was always top dollar. Don't think its changed for us. But of course you only see the shipping when racing for the checkout (FWIW....60 dollars to ship out adapters. Expect the same for the Pocket).

Honestly though, I think it's worth it.

CiDeRmAn

Eight minutes and counting.

Bugger

CiDeRmAn

Great, now I'm €300 in the hole and expecting customs as well!

Woohoo!