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Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.
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Got a letter from icbf yesterday about a new calf scheme. They will source calves from herdplus herds and calves will be genotyped. No calf will be under 21 days. You can specify what type of calves you want but 50% must be fr bulls. Also the dates you want calves was required. Calves will be valued according to figures. The min number is 20 calves. It was and expression of interest. Interesting take and it will help remove some of the lucky dips with frx calves.0
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Problem is with so much jex seeping through in the breeding it’s becoming difficult to keep to w runts out of any group and they murder profit across a group of calves.
I see what your saying but the Fr will leave you at the mercy of milling prices or he just won’t do anything, at least on good grass Hex or AAx will grow away cheaper.
Jex blood is not the real issue it's the use of extremely easy calving bulls by bigger dairy farms. They want the cow to spit calf. This has lead to calves with low growth rates and low terminal weights.
At present for me Fr are out preforming AA and Most HE on good grass. I had some back beef shorthorns that are the nearest I have seen to an old style HE or AA bullock.
Finishing cattle at 24 months is becoming anon runner. Processor's are not allowing for winter finishing costs. It's also impossible to get a lot of HE or AA much beyond 300 kgs DW at this age. That is why processor's want to keep suckler's around as they will kill 369kgs at this age but they do not want to pay for them or for any other winter finished animal.
Teagasc is showing that finishing at 28-30 months is where the money is at presentSlava Ukrainii
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mr.stonewall wrote: »Got a letter from icbf yesterday about a new calf scheme. They will source calves from herdplus herds and calves will be genotyped. No calf will be under 21 days. You can specify what type of calves you want but 50% must be fr bulls. Also the dates you want calves was required. Calves will be valued according to figures. The min number is 20 calves. It was and expression of interest. Interesting take and it will help remove some of the lucky dips with frx calves.
They will want you to pay well for the facility. If I wanted calves I be looking at trying to source out of the Cork or North Kerry area.Slava Ukrainii
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At the recent IFA meeting in Cavan there was a suggestion that the dams breeding be shown on the calves card. I think it's a good idea as it would allow people to dismiss calves out off FRx/JEx/JE dams if they wanted too. Easy calving bulls (HE & AA in particular) used on these cows give as you referred to above poor performing bulls/bullocks that kill out at low weights. We've been caught out with a few HEx even though I would consider myself a good judge of a calf.Bass Reeves wrote: »Jex blood is not the real issue it's the use of extremely easy calving bulls by bigger dairy farms. They want the cow to spit calf. This has lead to calves with low growth rates and low terminal weights.
At present for me Fr are out preforming AA and Most HE on good grass. I had some back beef shorthorns that are the nearest I have seen to an old style HE or AA bullock.
Finishing cattle at 24 months is becoming anon runner. Processor's are not allowing for winter finishing costs. It's also impossible to get a lot of HE or AA much beyond 300 kgs DW at this age. That is why processor's want to keep suckler's around as they will kill 369kgs at this age but they do not want to pay for them or for any other winter finished animal.
Teagasc is showing that finishing at 28-30 months is where the money is at present0 -
Base price wrote: »At the recent IFA meeting in Cavan there was a suggestion that the dams breeding be shown on the calves card. I think it's a good idea as it would allow people to dismiss calves out off FRx/JEx/JE dams if they wanted too. Easy calving bulls (HE & AA in particular) used on these cows give as you referred to above poor performing bulls/bullocks that kill out at low weights. We've been caught out with a few HEx even though I would consider myself a good judge of a calf.
Mightn't be all your fault, general opinion is that they never look as well again after three weeks old..... ad lib milk masks a lot too0 -
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The cards from the calves on my fleckveih cross cows came as frx as did the calves off nrx cow's and jex cow's i bought as well. They would all be 75% hol/ fr. The fleckveih cow's cards are six. Calves were black and white and looked the same as 100% hol/fr at a young age anyway. The nrx cow's calves actuallyvhad markings more similar to a je and the jex calves also came black and white0
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The black colour gene will dominate (in most cases) over other colours resulting in the majority of first cross calves from a FR/HO dam coming as black & white. However a buyer has to look at/be aware of the colouring pattern.The cards from the calves on my fleckveih cross cows came as frx as did the calves off nrx cow's and jex cow's i bought as well. They would all be 75% hol/ fr. The fleckveih cow's cards are six. Calves were black and white and looked the same as 100% hol/fr at a young age anyway. The nrx cow's calves actuallyvhad markings more similar to a je and the jex calves also came black and white
In your case if the dam's breed code was shown on the calves card/mart board then I think the SIx (Fleckvieh's) would command a premium over the Norwegian Red and Jersey crosses. Obliviously it all depends on the shape/colour pattern of the individual calf.
I wouldn't buy NR or BS cross bull calves again as imo they don't preform as well/kill into weight as FRx (JE) bulls.0 -
The cards from the calves on my fleckveih cross cows came as frx as did the calves off nrx cow's and jex cow's i bought as well. They would all be 75% hol/ fr. The fleckveih cow's cards are six. Calves were black and white and looked the same as 100% hol/fr at a young age anyway. The nrx cow's calves actuallyvhad markings more similar to a je and the jex calves also came black and white
That's the thing and they'll show as frx for the next three generations.
If they are a red freisian you'll be doubly crucified at the sales.
The jersey breeding has buyers spooked off those calves or only willing to pay a reduced price. I've been that soldier with the monty's.0 -
Darragh McCullough what he had penned today in the FI is part of what we discussed about the IFA leadership campaign.
Slava Ukrainii
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The sooner they take the pen and microphone from McCullough the better for everybody involved in farming0
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Bass Reeves wrote: »Darragh McCullough what he had penned today in the FI is part of what we discussed about the IFA leadership campaign.
If he read the IFA cap reform 2020 submission he'd see we're lobbying for an increase in CAP.
Hence the upwards only convergence
IFA key principles on CAP 2020 proposals
Budget The CAP Budget must be increased
Farm incomes Direct payments must be protected
Farm schemes Strongly funded farm schemes are essential
Simplification Bureaucracy and inspections must be reduced
Market supports EU Market supports must be maintained
Young farmers We need to encourage generational renewal
Active farmers Direct payments should go only to active farmers0 -
If the read the IFA cap reform 2020 submission he'd see we're lobbying for an increase in CAP.
IFA key principles on CAP 2020 proposals
Budget The CAP Budget must be increased
Farm incomes Direct payments must be protected
Farm schemes Strongly funded farm schemes are essential
Simplification Bureaucracy and inspections must be reduced
Market supports EU Market supports must be maintained
Young farmers We need to encourage generational renewal
Active farmers Direct payments should go only to active farmers
He's a jackass - but a dangerous jackass because he has a public voice and the ear of the public.0 -
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Oh an absolute failure as a farmer
What did he copy from here?
Bass was criticising the presidential candidates for proposing upwards only converging which is impossible if the budget is reduced, however we're pushing for an increase in CAP.
In lobbying you always have to act positive whether you believe it or not0 -
As Keyser Soza told the police the biggest lie the Devil ever perputated was to make people believe he did not exist.
So according to these potential great Furhers they have us believe that they can over the next four years at least double the money going into the BPS payments. Bookie's will give you 1000/1 on that one and at least 10-1 that there will be any increase in the overall BPS budget. They give 1-10 at best even if they would take a bet on it that the pot will shrink by at least 10%.
Whether we like it or not there will be no credits for hedgerows or grassland. The present method of measuring Carbon is an international agreement we may not like it but it will not change not in the next 4-5 years anyway no matter what the Muppets do.
No point in blaming Darragh McCullough or insulting him either. You deal with the reality that is out there not muppet ( sorry fairy)talesSlava Ukrainii
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Bass Reeves wrote: »As Keyser Soza told the police the biggest lie the Devil ever perputated was to make people believe he did not exist.
So according to these potential great Furhers they have us believe that they can over the next four years at least double the money going into the BPS payments. Bookie's will give you 1000/1 on that one and at least 10-1 that there will be any increase in the overall BPS budget. They give 1-10 at best even if they would take a bet on it that the pot will shrink by at least 10%.
Whether we like it or not there will be no credits for hedgerows or grassland. The present method of measuring Carbon is an international agreement we may not like it but it will not change not in the next 4-5 years anyway no matter what the Muppets do.
No point in blaming Darragh McCullough or insulting him either. You deal with the reality that is out there not muppet ( sorry fairy)tales
Ah if you're a shirking violet who is afraid to say boo to anybody then the 1 thing that is 1 thousand % guaranteed is that you'll get taken to the cleaners
You seem happy enough that we just sit back and don't fight to get extra money (which if we maintain what we have is an achievement) or forget about credits for grassland and hedgerows because someone somewhere said so.
We need to fight for absolutely every penny we can get from Europe, because we are going to need every single penny we get.
We need to stand up to absolutely every climate change and vegan propagandist and fight them tooth and nail with everything we have or else we won't have anything to fight for in 10 years
Irish farming hasn't faced challenges like it currently faces in the past 50 years, maybe these are even the biggest challenges we have faced. So we need to fight like we have never fought before - and having jackasses like McCullough writing rubbish on the front of a national newspaper doesn't help anybody. if we were all as cowardly as him then we wouldn't have an agri industry in Ireland0 -
An McCullough if you are reading on here - why don't you join up and defend your position. You are well able to write on the Indo where your opinion is unquestioned and you can write what you like - so if you have something to say then you better be able to defend what you have written0
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Bass Reeves wrote: »As Keyser Soza told the police the biggest lie the Devil ever perputated was to make people believe he did not exist.
So according to these potential great Furhers they have us believe that they can over the next four years at least double the money going into the BPS payments. Bookie's will give you 1000/1 on that one and at least 10-1 that there will be any increase in the overall BPS budget. They give 1-10 at best even if they would take a bet on it that the pot will shrink by at least 10%.
Whether we like it or not there will be no credits for hedgerows or grassland. The present method of measuring Carbon is an international agreement we may not like it but it will not change not in the next 4-5 years anyway no matter what the Muppets do.
No point in blaming Darragh McCullough or insulting him either. You deal with the reality that is out there not muppet ( sorry fairy)tales
And if you were at the meeting with commisioner Ciolos in Ardee before the last CAP Reform you would have guaranteed me that we'd be on a flat payment from then on, yet we are where we are, with me getting €400/HA more than he threatened or €100000+ since then , forgive me for believing in fairy tales so
https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0921/338550-ifa-warns-eu-commissioner-on-issue-over-reforms/0 -
Grassland/ crops use of CO2 and hedgrows not being included in overall calculations is a load of bollox tbh. People ****e on about Norway then with there green ways and they exporting 24billion of oil to the UK alone. The whole thing is nothing but pure and utter hypocrisy0
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Grassland/ crops use of CO2 and hedgrows not being included in overall calculations is a load of bollox tbh. People ****e on about Norway then with there green ways and they exporting 24billion of oil to the UK alone. The whole thing is nothing but pure and utter hypocrisy
Well said - pure and utter hypocrisy. and while farmers stand there all quiet and meek then the s##t will keep getting thrown at us, no matter if it 's right, wrong or indifferent0 -
Grassland/ crops use of CO2 and hedgrows not being included in overall calculations is a load of bollox tbh. People ****e on about Norway then with there green ways and they exporting 24billion of oil to the UK alone. The whole thing is nothing but pure and utter hypocrisy
The derrybrien windfarm fiasco and the fact the government still have sorted it, with the EU forced to act says it all, the prick from EPA would be better of sorting a serious issue like the above out first in the indepenant today then waffling on about farmers, but given theirs such inaction someone in high places must have money invested in it, farmers need to forget about going by whatever bat**** crazy rulebook is drawn up, forget about getting the dole from Europe and just farm the land0 -
The sooner they take the pen and microphone from McCullough the better for everybody involved in farmingIf he read the IFA cap reform 2020 submission he'd see we're lobbying for an increase in CAP.
Hence the upwards only convergence
IFA key principles on CAP 2020 proposals
Budget The CAP Budget must be increased
Farm incomes Direct payments must be protected
Farm schemes Strongly funded farm schemes are essential
Simplification Bureaucracy and inspections must be reduced
Market supports EU Market supports must be maintained
Young farmers We need to encourage generational renewal
Active farmers Direct payments should go only to active farmersHe's a jackass - but a dangerous jackass because he has a public voice and the ear of the public.He's a failed farmer, he'd never have thought up that article only he copied it off bass's posts.
Hopefully he's still reading here, he might cop onOh an absolute failure as a farmer
What did he copy from here?Bass was criticising the presidential candidates for proposing upwards only converging which is impossible if the budget is reduced, however we're pushing for an increase in CAP.
In lobbying you always have to act positive whether you believe it or notAh if you're a shirking violet who is afraid to say boo to anybody then the 1 thing that is 1 thousand % guaranteed is that you'll get taken to the cleaners
You seem happy enough that we just sit back and don't fight to get extra money (which if we maintain what we have is an achievement) or forget about credits for grassland and hedgerows because someone somewhere said so.
We need to fight for absolutely every penny we can get from Europe, because we are going to need every single penny we get.
We need to stand up to absolutely every climate change and vegan propagandist and fight them tooth and nail with everything we have or else we won't have anything to fight for in 10 years
Irish farming hasn't faced challenges like it currently faces in the past 50 years, maybe these are even the biggest challenges we have faced. So we need to fight like we have never fought before - and having jackasses like McCullough writing rubbish on the front of a national newspaper doesn't help anybody. if we were all as cowardly as him then we wouldn't have an agri industry in IrelandAn McCullough if you are reading on here - why don't you join up and defend your position. You are well able to write on the Indo where your opinion is unquestioned and you can write what you like - so if you have something to say then you better be able to defend what you have writtenAnd if you were at the meeting with commisioner Ciolos in Ardee before the last CAP Reform you would have guaranteed me that we'd be on a flat payment from then on, yet we are where we are, with me getting €400/HA more than he threatened or €100000+ since then , forgive me for believing in fairy tales so
https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0921/338550-ifa-warns-eu-commissioner-on-issue-over-reforms/Grassland/ crops use of CO2 and hedgrows not being included in overall calculations is a load of bollox tbh. People ****e on about Norway then with there green ways and they exporting 24billion of oil to the UK alone. The whole thing is nothing but pure and utter hypocrisyWell said - pure and utter hypocrisy. and while farmers stand there all quiet and meek then the s##t will keep getting thrown at us, no matter if it 's right, wrong or indifferentThe derrybrien windfarm fiasco and the fact the government still have sorted it, with the EU forced to act says it all, the prick from EPA would be better of sorting a serious issue like the above out first in the indepenant today then waffling on about farmers, but given theirs such inaction someone in high places must have money invested in it, farmers need to forget about going by whatever bat**** crazy rulebook is drawn up, forget about getting the dole from Europe and just farm the land
I have learned over the years to deal with the reality of the situation you are in. Even if IFA and all the rest of the Eu farm organisations change the direction of EU farm policy what kind of change in income will it mean. If they manage to stabilize the ship and no more reductions ( it will take a huge shift in policy) it would be a miracle similar to the loaves and fishes.
As I have said many times the answer to farm incomes no longer lies in Europe. Other European farm organisations have lobbied for a change whereby national funding is allowed. this would be a disaster for Ireland. Along with this we have the climate change/carbon issue. We can all cry about how wrong it is but the reality is we have to deal with it.
We can complain about the rules regarding oil, but they are the rules. As a small nation we will not change the rules regarding carbon and climate change. Neither will we change the changing attitude to calf slaughter and calf/cattle export. Personally I hate to see 25-40% of the country covered in forestry but that is the way the present farm leadership is leading us.
We have to accept that there is no bonanza regarding farm payments/support in Europe. The answer to farm incomes lies at processors and retailers doors whether it is in beef or milk the two main product we export. Today in the FI they highlighted that the three main processors of milk paid 3.5c/L below the EU average and they are above average for total Irish Milk volume.
Farm leadership and farmers need to cop on, and realize the answer to farm income lies not in extra efficiency, or in the EU but in farm gate prices.
The Muppets are pointing in the wrong directionSlava Ukrainii
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Bass Reeves wrote: »I have learned over the years to deal with the reality of the situation you are in. Even if IFA and all the rest of the Eu farm organisations change the direction of EU farm policy what kind of change in income will it mean. If they manage to stabilize the ship and no more reductions ( it will take a huge shift in policy) it would be a miracle similar to the loaves and fishes.
As I have said many times the answer to farm incomes no longer lies in Europe. Other European farm organisations have lobbied for a change whereby national funding is allowed. this would be a disaster for Ireland. Along with this we have the climate change/carbon issue. We can all cry about how wrong it is but the reality is we have to deal with it.
We can complain about the rules regarding oil, but they are the rules. As a small nation we will not change the rules regarding carbon and climate change. Neither will we change the changing attitude to calf slaughter and calf/cattle export. Personally I hate to see 25-40% of the country covered in forestry but that is the way the present farm leadership is leading us.
We have to accept that there is no bonanza regarding farm payments/support in Europe. The answer to farm incomes lies at processors and retailers doors whether it is in beef or milk the two main product we export. Today in the FI they highlighted that the three main processors of milk paid 3.5c/L below the EU average and they are above average for total Irish Milk volume.
Farm leadership and farmers need to cop on, and realize the answer to farm income lies not in extra efficiency, or in the EU but in farm gate prices.
The Muppets are pointing in the wrong direction
Are you that sad that you can't see that we can't compete with other suppliers of agricultural produce, real world beckons etc.
Until there's a scarcity imports we have to sell cheaper to get on the shelves, so unless the Irish obesity problem worsens and we consume all our milk and beef then price differential will be there.
Name calling is childish schoolyard stuff and says more about the poster than the target, sad again really.
You're in dreamland if you think there's an answer to the farm income crisis other than subsidising the hell out of it, those that don't agree with working in that scenario don't have to stay doing any sort of farming0 -
Bass Reeves wrote: »I have learned over the years to deal with the reality of the situation you are in. Even if IFA and all the rest of the Eu farm organisations change the direction of EU farm policy what kind of change in income will it mean. If they manage to stabilize the ship and no more reductions ( it will take a huge shift in policy) it would be a miracle similar to the loaves and fishes.
As I have said many times the answer to farm incomes no longer lies in Europe. Other European farm organisations have lobbied for a change whereby national funding is allowed. this would be a disaster for Ireland. Along with this we have the climate change/carbon issue. We can all cry about how wrong it is but the reality is we have to deal with it.
We can complain about the rules regarding oil, but they are the rules. As a small nation we will not change the rules regarding carbon and climate change. Neither will we change the changing attitude to calf slaughter and calf/cattle export. Personally I hate to see 25-40% of the country covered in forestry but that is the way the present farm leadership is leading us.
We have to accept that there is no bonanza regarding farm payments/support in Europe. The answer to farm incomes lies at processors and retailers doors whether it is in beef or milk the two main product we export. Today in the FI they highlighted that the three main processors of milk paid 3.5c/L below the EU average and they are above average for total Irish Milk volume.
Farm leadership and farmers need to cop on, and realize the answer to farm income lies not in extra efficiency, or in the EU but in farm gate prices.
The Muppets are pointing in the wrong direction
Fair play a great honest post from a working farmer, Europe has no more money to give farming and that is the simple fact going forward.0 -
Are you that sad that you can't see that we can't compete with other suppliers of agricultural produce, real world beckons etc.
Until there's a scarcity imports we have to sell cheaper to get on the shelves, so unless the Irish obesity problem worsens and we consume all our milk and beef then price differential will be there.
Name calling is childish schoolyard stuff and says more about the poster than the target, sad again really.
You're in dreamland if you think there's an answer to the farm income crisis other than subsidising the hell out of it, those that don't agree with working in that scenario don't have to stay doing any sort of farming
The future is for an active farmer and the lad working the land and not the arm chair one.0 -
Bass Reeves wrote: »I have learned over the years to deal with the reality of the situation you are in. Even if IFA and all the rest of the Eu farm organisations change the direction of EU farm policy what kind of change in income will it mean. If they manage to stabilize the ship and no more reductions ( it will take a huge shift in policy) it would be a miracle similar to the loaves and fishes.
As I have said many times the answer to farm incomes no longer lies in Europe. Other European farm organisations have lobbied for a change whereby national funding is allowed. this would be a disaster for Ireland. Along with this we have the climate change/carbon issue. We can all cry about how wrong it is but the reality is we have to deal with it.
We can complain about the rules regarding oil, but they are the rules. As a small nation we will not change the rules regarding carbon and climate change. Neither will we change the changing attitude to calf slaughter and calf/cattle export. Personally I hate to see 25-40% of the country covered in forestry but that is the way the present farm leadership is leading us.
We have to accept that there is no bonanza regarding farm payments/support in Europe. The answer to farm incomes lies at processors and retailers doors whether it is in beef or milk the two main product we export. Today in the FI they highlighted that the three main processors of milk paid 3.5c/L below the EU average and they are above average for total Irish Milk volume.
Farm leadership and farmers need to cop on, and realize the answer to farm income lies not in extra efficiency, or in the EU but in farm gate prices.
The Muppets are pointing in the wrong direction
Well the fact that you were protesting outside the beef factories looking for a price of 3.90-4.00 when nowhere in Europe was with 30 cent of it tells me that you most certainly have not learned to deal with the reality of the situation that you are in
You don't want huge areas covered in trees but you don't want anybody to fight to have grassland and hedges counted as carbon sinks
The simple fact is we won't have markets if farmers don't start to win the PR battle that is currently raging regarding climate change, land use, red meat bad, dairy bad. If we don't win those battles then there won't be factories for you to picket outside, because not even Larry can magic up a market out of nowhere.
Demand for beef in our main market is taking a hammering - we need to fight for it. We need to get the word out there that red meat isn't the devil re-incarnate, because plenty of people are saying it is and the public is listening
Regarding the EU and their funds, only an idiot wouldn't be in favour of maximising the amount we can get from the EU - because we need every single penny that comes from them0 -
Well the fact that you were protesting outside the beef factories looking for a price of 3.90-4.00 when nowhere in Europe was with 30 cent of it tells me that you most certainly have not learned to deal with the reality of the situation that you are in
You don't want huge areas covered in trees but you don't want anybody to fight to have grassland and hedges counted as carbon sinks
The simple fact is we won't have markets if farmers don't start to win the PR battle that is currently raging regarding climate change, land use, red meat bad, dairy bad. If we don't win those battles then there won't be factories for you to picket outside, because not even Larry can magic up a market out of nowhere.
Demand for beef in our main market is taking a hammering - we need to fight for it. We need to get the word out there that red meat isn't the devil re-incarnate, because plenty of people are saying it is and the public is listening
Regarding the EU and their funds, only an idiot wouldn't be in favour of maximising the amount we can get from the EU - because we need every single penny that comes from them
Even €5/kg won't be enough when the subsidies stop, yet the protestors still claim they don't want subsidies, don't want to jump through hoops. what good was 100m wtc etc
If the tractor protest is as successful as the blockade they'll finish farming altogether0 -
ok so tell about the dairy farmers and their calves again0
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Even €5/kg don't want enough when the subsidies stop, yet the protestors still claim they don't want subsidies, don't want to jump through hoops. what good was 100m wtc etc
If the tractor protest is as successful as the blockade they'll finish farming altogether
There'll be a fierce run on tyres, mirrors, wipers and road tax this week if they're to get numbers. I see several ads up "tractor driver available for protest"..
Twill be great craic altogether Ted..0
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