Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

Base price

alps wrote: »

It may just be a sad reflection of the very few we now have who will put up their hand to represent...

Then......when you listen to the vitriol and hatred spouted about anyone who does, it's no surprise that we are left with what we have.

All I can say is well done to anyone who steps up to the plate....they are twice (no..multiples) of the people who always see right to piss in on those inside...

Whatever you think of them....they are all we got..

I agree alps but it wasn't like this problem came out of the blue considering the problem that we had last Spring when the weather prevented livestock sailings that caused the backlog in the Cherbourg lairaige. We know that there are additional numbers of dairy bull calves entering the system this Spring. I flagged several months ago on F&F that we would have an even bigger problem this Spring and I said at the time that I hoped that DAFM would be active in trying to find way to alleviate it.
BTW I wasn't trying to piss on anyone, I'm just stating facts.

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

What you're spewing there isn't justified, very few farmers would refer to anyone in those terms, those are personal attacks against people that aren't here to defend themselves. beef plan is full of it, you can vent there if you like.
The position is a poisoned chalice now because of people like you, if you have criticism there's plenty of meetings around the country so man up and do it face to face.

I won't be voting for Tim because like you he supported the protests

I don't understand what you mean by "what your're spewing there isn't justified" and referring to anyone in those terms - tbh I'm lost with your comment.
However I stated well know facts re dairy bull calf numbers, ferry sailing days and the shortage of lairaige spaces in Cherbourg etc.
TBF to everyone I'm better off not attending the hustings

Base price

_Brian wrote: »

Is there a worse slight for any woman other than being told to “man up” 😂😂

Brian, in fairness to Wrangler I don't think he meant it in a derogatory way and if he did it doesn't bother me. As a female farmer I've learned to get used to/deal with the ignorance of some of my male farmer compatriots.

mf240

Base price wrote: »

Brian, in fairness to Wrangler I don't think he meant it in a derogatory way and if he did it doesn't bother me. As a female farmer I've learned to get used to/deal with the ignorance of some of my male farmer compatriots.

You shouldn't have to but the few female farmers I know are well able to stand up for themselves

Ard_MC

Base price wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by "what your're spewing there isn't justified" and referring to anyone in those terms - tbh I'm lost with your comment.
However I stated well know facts re dairy bull calf numbers, ferry sailing days and the shortage of lairaige spaces in Cherbourg etc.
TBF to everyone I'm better off not attending the hustings

I think he might be confusing you with Bass. Looking back the posts.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean by "what your're spewing there isn't justified" and referring to anyone in those terms - tbh I'm lost with your comment.
However I stated well know facts re dairy bull calf numbers, ferry sailing days and the shortage of lairaige spaces in Cherbourg etc.
TBF to everyone I'm better off not attending the hustings

Sorry I quoted the wrong post, that rant wasn't intended for you

Base price

Ard_MC wrote: »

I think he might be confusing you with Bass. Looking back the posts.

wrangler wrote: »

Sorry I quoted the wrong post, that rant wasn't intended for you

Apologies accepted and thank you for acknowledging same

wrangler

3 the square wrote: »

Sold 5 fr bulls in the mart 105 each 4 weeks old
Happy enough!

Some difference.

https://www.thatsfarming.com/marts/Castlerea-Mart-November-7th

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Farmers like you elect them ........
You're just deliberately trolling now....... in one sweep you have belittled 70000 members
What has happened to your posting since the stupid protests, pathetic

wrangler wrote: »

What you're spewing there isn't justified, very few farmers would refer to anyone in those terms, those are personal attacks against people that aren't here to defend themselves. beef plan is full of it, you can vent there if you like.
The position is a poisoned chalice now because of people like you, if you have criticism there's plenty of meetings around the country so man up and do it face to face.

I won't be voting for Tim because like you he supported the protests

The first thing is I do not elect them as I am not an IFA member. But we had a couple little little nugget today in the FI. They were all asked if they supported convergence of the BPS. They all spewed the same line

''they supported upwards only convergence''

Now what is upwards only convergence. The highest BPS is now 750/HA. Are they proposing that all payments will be bought up to this level. The average is something like 280/HA I think. The Eu is proposing to cut the CAP budget by 5%. The IFA new leaders looking for the job intend that Ireland's BPS scheme should be nearly trebled. Mr piggy proposes that a new suckler cow subsidy of 300/head for the first 30 cows and 30/ewe and we having dairy calves falling out of cows like there is no tomorrow. When you add Mr Fly boy's proposal to export 500K calves next year. Is he intending to fly them out of Shannon. As well we have them advocating a farm retirement/retirement grant scheme even though it is rules out at both Government and EU level.

An organisation of 70K and these are the candidates. Then again half them are in it because of the FBD voucher I suspect.

I sorry for insulting the Muppets.

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The first thing is I do not elect them as I am not an IFA member. But we had a couple little little nugget today in the FI. They were all asked if they supported convergence of the BPS. They all spewed the same line

''they supported upwards only convergence''

Now what is upwards only convergence. The highest BPS is now 750/HA. Are they proposing that all payments will be bought up to this level. The average is something like 280/HA I think. The Eu is proposing to cut the CAP budget by 5%. The IFA new leaders looking for the job intend that Ireland's BPS scheme should be nearly trebled. Mr piggy proposes that a new suckler cow subsidy of 300/head for the first 30 cows and 30/ewe and we having dairy calves falling out of cows like there is no tomorrow. When you add Mr Fly boy's proposal to export 500K calves next year. Is he intending to fly them out

An organisation of 70K and these are the candidates. Then again half them are in it because of the FBD voucher I suspect.

I sorry for insulting the Muppets.

E300 for suckers would keep up the number of cows. Where would the calves be marketed given the surplus already? E30 for sheep would have the same effect. More surpluses

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The first thing is I do not elect them as I am not an IFA member. But we had a couple little little nugget today in the FI. They were all asked if they supported convergence of the BPS. They all spewed the same line

''they supported upwards only convergence''

Now what is upwards only convergence. The highest BPS is now 750/HA. Are they proposing that all payments will be bought up to this level. The average is something like 280/HA I think. The Eu is proposing to cut the CAP budget by 5%. The IFA new leaders looking for the job intend that Ireland's BPS scheme should be nearly trebled. Mr piggy proposes that a new suckler cow subsidy of 300/head for the first 30 cows and 30/ewe and we having dairy calves falling out of cows like there is no tomorrow. When you add Mr Fly boy's proposal to export 500K calves next year. Is he intending to fly them out of Shannon.

An organisation of 70K and these are the candidates. Then again half them are in it because of the FBD voucher I suspect.

I sorry for insulting the Muppets.

Those sad protests must have really disillusioned you, Your posts lately are really something else since then, Just like teagasc you're bragging about your cattle gaining whatever, do you not think you're walking farmers into trouble like teagasc. Some farmers are grabbing at straws and you, teagasc and Beef plan are feeding the straws to grab at.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Those sad protests must have really disillusioned you, Your posts lately are really something else since then, Just like teagasc you're bragging about your cattle gaining whatever, do you not think you're walking farmers into trouble like teagasc. Some farmers are grabbing at straws and you, teagasc and Beef plan are feeding the straws to grab at.

I have to disagree. IFA think all the financial problems can be answered in Europe. The reality is totally different. The EU budget is capped all we will get is micky mouse schemes like the BEAM which give limited money to a select few. The answer to farming incomes no longer lies in Europe.It lies in two places first in farmers own hands and secondly at the gates of processors whether they are milk or meat processors.

Yes the future Furher's of the IFA are more intent on playing politics than telling the truth and proposing grandoise solutions that are unworkable. They are like FF in there heyday in the noughties spending money that is not there.

Since you retired you have lost touch with the farming reality out there ( if you ever were in touch with it) money from road schemes or from BEAM only finance the few.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to disagree. IFA think all the financial problems can be answered in Europe. The reality is totally different. The EU budget is capped all we will get is micky mouse schemes like the BEAM which give limited money to a select few. The answer to farming incomes no longer lies in Europe.It lies in two places first in farmers own hands and secondly at the gates of processors whether they are milk or meat processors.

Yes the future Furher's of the IFA are more intent on playing politics than telling the truth and proposing grandoise solutions that are unworkable. They are like FF in there heyday in the noughties spending money that is not there.

Since you retired you have lost touch with the farming reality out there ( if you ever were in touch with it) money from road schemes or from BEAM only finance the few.

The the guys who weren't prepared to jump through hoops in the nineties lost out badly for the last 20 years and they think they're too proud to do it now again. QA compliant is king at the moment and it cost nothing to be QA.
I've told told you all along that Presidents have no power, they are but a figure head, They'll have professionals with them for negotiations, Pat smith is worth multiples of Mc Donald,..... again farmers knew the price of everything and the value of nothing, Pat Smith was out, A lot of farmers don't know Mc DonaldS christian name but they always knew Smiths.....
You should be able to figure out who the muppets are now

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to disagree. IFA think all the financial problems can be answered in Europe. The reality is totally different. The EU budget is capped all we will get is micky mouse schemes like the BEAM which give limited money to a select few. The answer to farming incomes no longer lies in Europe.It lies in two places first in farmers own hands and secondly at the gates of processors whether they are milk or meat processors.

Yes the future Furher's of the IFA are more intent on playing politics than telling the truth and proposing grandoise solutions that are unworkable. They are like FF in there heyday in the noughties spending money that is not there.

Since you retired you have lost touch with the farming reality out there ( if you ever were in touch with it) money from road schemes or from BEAM only finance the few.

Don't forget taxfree lease { which convinced me to give a young fella a chance) and OHs contributory pension which IFA lobbied for too .
Credit where credit is due after all

Good loser

alps wrote: »

I seriously question the accuracy of some of the agriland articles. Some of the reporting can be very slack. $800/900 for a 100kg dairy calf makes absolutely no sense.

Reading the article the price quoted is $400.

Sheep breeder

MIKEKC wrote: »

E300 for suckers would keep up the number of cows. Where would the calves be marketed given the surplus already? E30 for sheep would have the same effect. More surpluses

We are fully decoupled and can’t go back to a suckler cow scheme per head, it has to like the bdgp or beep, based on welfare, land, weighting etc. And these ifa guys surely know this and should not be giving out false propaganda to get votes.

awaywithyou

wrangler wrote: »

[/B]

Don't forget taxfree lease { which convinced me to give a young fella a chance) and OHs contributory pension which IFA lobbied for too .
Credit where credit is due after all

I was a teacher for nearly 10 yrs ( not too far from u) before taking up farming full time... was never a member of a teachers union..... almost 400quid a year.... the Secretary General was getting 150000/yr... and driving around in a big Range Rover... golf with the elite and off on plenty of holidays... so u can see why I declined to fund that lifestyle....

Farming with a few years and unfortunately my father pays the IFA subscription despite me telling him to drop it.... when the IFA man calls for the money he never approaches me as he knows what he’ll be told...!! I had great hope for Joe Healy when he became president but when I saw that pic of himself and his boyfriend Varadkar heading into the Aviva to watch a rugby match back in Feb... that was the end of that....

From what I can see the IFA, the farmers journal, the meat processors, the milk processors, Bord Bia, the Dept of Ag have a few things in common... there full of bull**** mouthpieces that live off the farmer and at the same time couldn’t give a **** about the farmer....

I’m sure you could list off a heap of little achievements by the IFA.... they are just rearranging the deck chairs in the titanic.... we all know what the IFA should b doing for Irish farmers but no chance of that happening... sure you can’t bite the hand that feeds you....

alps

Good loser wrote: »

Reading the article the price quoted is $400.

Haha...they must be reading boards...

Warned you about the inaccuracy of Agriland articles..

They've it changed...

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That sounds like it's better than dairy here. How many farms are actually able to give interest as well as a wage? Would there be two or three batches in the year?

It’s not bad in fairness.
I’ve posted about a young lady that started out last year from zero, borrowed 100% of the investment, and is flying it. The veal processors write a 15yr contract that guarantees a price of X for that period. That young lady is already putting a plan in place to double her output by 2021. She reckons that she’ll be able to go as far as producing 3500-4000 calves per year without hiring staff.

The amount of batches are governed by the number of buildings and your need for cash-flow. You need to fill, and empty, a shed completely for cleaning purposes. She reckons that the only hard work is the cleaning after a batch...

Banks are lending as much as you want at 0.44% once you’ve secured a 15yr contract with the processor. She’ll be borrowed to the tune of €1.5mln by the end of 2021. She even had to buy the land, and secure planning, from borrowings...nobody handed her a valuable land asset.
The job is independent of weather and you can pick and choose your working hours. It wouldn’t be for me at this stage of my life, but for anyone with even a tiny bit of ambition, it wouldn’t be a bad business to get into.

*But it is high input. Hard to fatten a calf on grass and water!

wrangler

awaywithyou wrote: »

I was a teacher for nearly 10 yrs ( not too far from u) before taking up farming full time... was never a member of a teachers union..... almost 400quid a year.... the Secretary General was getting 150000/yr... and driving around in a big Range Rover... golf with the elite and off on plenty of holidays... so u can see why I declined to fund that lifestyle....

Farming with a few years and unfortunately my father pays the IFA subscription despite me telling him to drop it.... when the IFA man calls for the money he never approaches me as he knows what he’ll be told...!! I had great hope for Joe Healy when he became president but when I saw that pic of himself and his boyfriend Varadkar heading into the Aviva to watch a rugby match back in Feb... that was the end of that....

From what I can see the IFA, the farmers journal, the meat processors, the milk processors, Bord Bia, the Dept of Ag have a few things in common... there full of bull**** mouthpieces that live off the farmer and at the same time couldn’t give a **** about the farmer....

I’m sure you could list off a heap of little achievements by the IFA.... they are just rearranging the deck chairs in the titanic.... we all know what the IFA should b doing for Irish farmers but no chance of that happening... sure you can’t bite the hand that feeds you....

Lots of barstool experts around and ye haven't a clue what to do about the price of beef, the best ye can do is BSE blame someone else. I told you that the processors will do what they do, the Beef Plan ****d up trying to prove us wrong yet you come out with this blurb. sad again.
The world price of beef will be where the market sets it and there's nothing that'll change that. You and Bass are deluded if you think that anything will change that
Thankfully I never looked for positions in IFA and I'd just walk away if I got any hassle.

Bass Reeves

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s not bad in fairness.
I’ve posted about a young lady that started out last year from zero, borrowed 100% of the investment, and is flying it. The veal processors write a 15yr contract that guarantees a price of X for that period. That young lady is already putting a plan in place to double her output by 2021. She reckons that she’ll be able to go as far as producing 3500-4000 calves per year without hiring staff.

The amount of batches are governed by the number of buildings and your need for cash-flow. You need to fill, and empty, a shed completely for cleaning purposes. She reckons that the only hard work is the cleaning after a batch...

Banks are lending as much as you want at 0.44% once you’ve secured a 15yr contract with the processor. She’ll be borrowed to the tune of €1.5mln by the end of 2021. She even had to buy the land, and secure planning, from borrowings...nobody handed her a valuable land asset.
The job is independent of weather and you can pick and choose your working hours. It wouldn’t be for me at this stage of my life, but for anyone with even a tiny bit of ambition, it wouldn’t be a bad business to get into.

*But it is high input. Hard to fatten a calf on grass and water!

There are two things there that rule out a veal operation straight away in Ireland. The first is the 15 year contract and price. Irish processors would not quote you for next week. The interest rate is the second. Less than 0.5% over 15 years. Minimun rates in Ireland are 4%+ .

His interest on that lone would be less than 50K over 15 years and her repayments would be 103.3K over 15 years. At 4% an Irish operator would pay 450K in interest and his repayment would be 130K. The profit would be gone on interest alone.

Gawddawggonnit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There are two things there that rule out a veal operation straight away in Ireland. The first is the 15 year contract and price. Irish processors would not quote you for next week. The interest rate is the second. Less than 0.5% over 15 years. Minimun rates in Ireland are 4%+ .

His interest on that lone would be less than 50K over 15 years and her repayments would be 103.3K over 15 years. At 4% an Irish operator would pay 450K in interest and his repayment would be 130K. The profit would be gone on interest alone.

It’s not a huge stretch of the imagination to conclude that all those Tams grants (etc) are only aiding processors and banks...?

A new 1000sqm poultry house costs €650k and any processor will give €150k towards that...if you sign up for 15yrs.
Likewise for pigs.
Young dairy entrants get nearly 6cpl over base price for a minimum of 5yrs. ( I railed against that with my Coop because it’s the likes of me that’s paying for it!)

Nothing for beef or tillage...as usual.

Maybe if the Irish Gov stopped horsing out money in the form of grants, private enterprise would pony up to secure their own future?

Personally I wouldn’t be happy to sign a contract with any processor for 15yrs. A lot can happen in 15yrs.

Bass Reeves

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s not a huge stretch of the imagination to conclude that all those Tams grants (etc) are only aiding processors and banks...?

A new 1000sqm poultry house costs €650k and any processor will give €150k towards that...if you sign up for 15yrs.
Likewise for pigs.
Young dairy entrants get nearly 6cpl over base price for a minimum of 5yrs. ( I railed against that with my Coop because it’s the likes of me that’s paying for it!)

Nothing for beef or tillage...as usual.

Maybe if the Irish Gov stopped horsing out money in the form of grants, private enterprise would pony up to secure their own future?

Personally I wouldn’t be happy to sign a contract with any processor for 15yrs. A lot can happen in 15yrs.

I believe until farm organisation stop thinking all the answers to all issue lie in Europe. Over the last 2-3 year we have had two major EU funded blood (money) transfusions to agri sectors.

The first was for tillage after was it the 2017 harvest. Money transfers only encourage till age lads on marginal land to keep making the same mistake. It the same with BEAM. Again finisher's who should have known better finishing cattle when it was obvious there was no chance of a margin.

Because of last year's BEAM these lads are stocking sheds again. I have even heard whispers of another BEAM scheme. Procurement managers are no doubt whispering that ''you be looked after lads''. The rest of us have to get on with it.

That why when I see what the Muppets are spouting I have no time for it. Processor and retailers would give contracts if they had to but it's too easy to manipulate the market when the representative bodies think Europe will solve every crisis.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I believe until farm organisation stop thinking all the answers to all issue lie in Europe. Over the last 2-3 year we have had two major EU funded blood (money) transfusions to agri sectors.

The first was for tillage after was it the 2017 harvest. Money transfers only encourage till age lads on marginal land to keep making the same mistake. It the same with BEAM. Again finisher's who should have known better finishing cattle when it was obvious there was no chance of a margin.

Because of last year's BEAM these lads are stocking sheds again. I have even heard whispers of another BEAM scheme. Procurement managers are no doubt whispering that ''you be looked after lads''. The rest of us have to get on with it.

That why when I see what the Muppets are spouting I have no time for it. Processor and retailers would give contracts if they had to but it's too easy to manipulate the market when the representative bodies think Europe will solve every crisis.

There was muppets in the 1990s too that tried to be cute hoors by not ''jumping through hoops'' to claim subsidies and then came with the whinge that IFA farmers had the inside track.
The system of subsidies now will give older farmers a chance to bow out over time instead of Beefplans ambition to put them out overnight, younger farmers know the outlook now and can do something else.
Even if China come into the market n a panic now they'll be gone in a couple of years

K.G.

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

It’s not bad in fairness.
I’ve posted about a young lady that started out last year from zero, borrowed 100% of the investment, and is flying it. The veal processors write a 15yr contract that guarantees a price of X for that period. That young lady is already putting a plan in place to double her output by 2021. She reckons that she’ll be able to go as far as producing 3500-4000 calves per year without hiring staff.

The amount of batches are governed by the number of buildings and your need for cash-flow. You need to fill, and empty, a shed completely for cleaning purposes. She reckons that the only hard work is the cleaning after a batch...

Banks are lending as much as you want at 0.44% once you’ve secured a 15yr contract with the processor. She’ll be borrowed to the tune of €1.5mln by the end of 2021. She even had to buy the land, and secure planning, from borrowings...nobody handed her a valuable land asset.
The job is independent of weather and you can pick and choose your working hours. It wouldn’t be for me at this stage of my life, but for anyone with even a tiny bit of ambition, it wouldn’t be a bad business to get into.

*But it is high input. Hard to fatten a calf on grass and water!

Quick question, what age do the calves arrive at her place

MIKEKC

Sheep breeder wrote: »

We are fully decoupled and can’t go back to a suckler cow scheme per head, it has to like the bdgp or beep, based on welfare, land, weighting etc. And these ifa guys surely know this and should not be giving out false propaganda to get votes.

Completely agree. These guys expect the tax payer to fund their lifestyle. Hospitals and homeless need funding far worse

wrangler

MIKEKC wrote: »

Completely agree. These guys expect the tax payer to fund their lifestyle. Hospitals and homeless need funding far worse

We'd always be told that by the politicians, yet we'd always get money.
While they're giving it out we might as well be asking for it.

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

We'd always be told that by the politicians, yet we'd always get money.
While they're giving it out we might as well be asking for it.

Agree we always get money. I believe we are a protected species

awaywithyou

wrangler wrote: »

Lots of barstool experts around and ye haven't a clue what to do about the price of beef, the best ye can do is BSE blame someone else. I told you that the processors will do what they do, the Beef Plan ****d up trying to prove us wrong yet you come out with this blurb. sad again.
The world price of beef will be where the market sets it and there's nothing that'll change that. You and Bass are deluded if you think that anything will change that
Thankfully I never looked for positions in IFA and I'd just walk away if I got any hassle.

Should have clarified in my earlier post I’m not a beef farmer....just dairy and all male calves sold after a few weeks.... not part of beef plan movement or did not do any protesting etc..

It was extremely disappointing during the summer when beef protests started.. the IFA instead of either supporting them or helping out in some way decided to come up with the retarded idea of protesting at the EU vet offices in grange... and of course they had a photographer there to capture the historic moment when Joe Healy jumped over the gates into the place and obviously that photo took pride of place on the front page of Larry’s journal the following Thursday....

wrangler

awaywithyou wrote: »

Should have clarified in my earlier post I’m not a beef farmer....just dairy and all male calves sold after a few weeks.... not part of beef plan movement or did not do any protesting etc..

It was extremely disappointing during the summer when beef protests started.. the IFA instead of either supporting them or helping out in some way decided to come up with the retarded idea of protesting at the EU vet offices in grange... and of course they had a photographer there to capture the historic moment when Joe Healy jumped over the gates into the place and obviously that photo took pride of place on the front page of Larry’s journal the following Thursday....

Another sad post, criticising IFA for not supporting the most destructive move on farmers ever, Are farmers so useless that they begrudge the success of the IFJ. IFJ surely have the high moral ground now in that they are not destroying the environment, You as a dairy farmer should be aware just how vulnerable farmers are now when you start throwing ****e around against other industries, excuse the pun. the joke will be on you in the next calving season
It was obvious from the start that protest was a waste of time, Most farmers I know weren't bothered supporting, one farmer I know blocked farmers in kilbeggan while his own were going into Moyvalley, why would any one be involved with that.
People are entitled to take part in peaceful protest without whingeing from you going on, at least IFA didn't destroy the year for thousands of farmers.
Again sad !!!!!!