Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Buer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If Ntamack can be starting for France, then Bryne can absolutely be included in the squad. We need to find a top replacement for Sexton, and Carberry isn't it imo.

Ntamack was a prodigy who was identified way out as a test player in the making. He was starting for France at U20 level at 18. He still wasn't capped until last year when he had proven himself and was regularly starting for Toulouse in the Champions Cup.

Byrne looks good but hasn't shown a fraction of what Ntamack had shown before he was capped.

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're of a similar age, both seriously talented. The French have no problem backing talent, in Ireland it's seemingly blasphemous to suggest he could be involved in a squad. Ridiculous conservatism.

I'm not calling for Bryne to start in Paris, I'm saying he can be involved in the squad. Don't think many would argue that he looks to be the best 10 coming through talent wise, so why waste time with lesser options?

We're starting to see the problem with having only four competitive club teams in ireland

Dubinusa

The summer tour would be ideal to blood some new lads. Baloucoune, I think will be capped. Baird should at least travel. Will Conners should be included.
For this tour , I would drop Toner Murray. Sexton and POM. Let them rest up. As far as Casy goes he needs a serious run of good form. I thin Cooney and Luke will get these matches. Marmion could be recalled and JGP may also feature. I'm for blooding young lads, but Casey hasn't the experience yet and the others have never been given a fair chance.
Sexton should remain at home. It's time to look at the other options. Carberry should be given time to recover. His career has been a glut of injuries. The squad will a mix of fringe lads and experience. The likes of Chris Farrell and McCloskey should travel. I expect Conan to be in the mix, so Deegan or Doris could be omitted. If Stander is rested, then they all may travel.. it should be an area for implementing new strategy and introducing new players.

stephen_n

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're of a similar age, both seriously talented. The French have no problem backing talent, in Ireland it's seemingly blasphemous to suggest he could be involved in a squad. Ridiculous conservatism.

I'm not calling for Bryne to start in Paris, I'm saying he can be involved in the squad. Don't think many would argue that he looks to be the best 10 coming through talent wise, so why waste time with lesser options?

And you are just going to completely ignore the monumental difference in their experience of top level rugby. He was involved with the squad already, but at the moment he is 3 or 4 choice at Leinster. The difference between him and Ntamack is night and day.

Dubinusa

Dubinusa wrote: »

The summer tour would be ideal to blood some new lads. Baloucoune, I think will be capped. Baird should at least travel. Will Conners should be included.
For this tour , I would drop Toner Murray. Sexton and POM. Let them rest up. As far as Casy goes he needs a serious run of good form. I thin Cooney and Luke will get these matches. Marmion could be recalled and JGP may also feature. I'm for blooding young lads, but Casey hasn't the experience yet and the others have never been given a fair chance.
Sexton should remain at home. It's time to look at the other options. Carberry should be given time to recover. His career has been a glut of injuries. The squad will a mix of fringe lads and experience. The likes of Chris Farrell and McCloskey should travel. I expect Conan to be in the mix, so Deegan or Doris could be omitted. If Stander is rested, then they all may travel.. it should be an area for implementing new strategy and introducing new players.

It's a tour to Australia, not US/Canada. There's valid arguments to drop Toner, Murray and POM but Sexton will 100% be travelling. Even if he doesn't play, he would be invaluable to have around the younger lads.

JRant

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're of a similar age, both seriously talented. The French have no problem backing talent, in Ireland it's seemingly blasphemous to suggest he could be involved in a squad. Ridiculous conservatism.

I'm not calling for Bryne to start in Paris, I'm saying he can be involved in the squad. Don't think many would argue that he looks to be the best 10 coming through talent wise, so why waste time with lesser options?

I like the look of Byrne and Leinster seem to be developing him nicely. He still has a lot to learn though and the danger is throwing him in too early could set him back. However, I do believe we are too slow to bring young players into the starting team. There's a raft of exciting talent coming through at lock and backrow but we are far too slow to bring them through. Ryan is the exception that proves the rule for me. Baird should start in the summer, maybe even this 6Ns if it is ever played out.

Shefwedfan

Some jump, before the England game everyone was happy with sticking as is, no need to bring in Cooney or Doris

Now standard over the top reaction and people talking about bringing in H Byrne

Ido think both H Byrne and Casey should be in squad but without the time at province level they would be killed at international level, Byrne is getting good experience with Leinster but Casey?

Also the u20 9, can’t think of name, similar to Casey and could have similar impact on senior squad, what do irfu/Ulster do? Sign a over the hill NZ player to block any chance of him getting time next season

AbusesToilets

JRant wrote: »

I like the look of Byrne and Leinster seem to be developing him nicely. He still has a lot to learn though and the danger is throwing him in too early could set him back. However, I do believe we are too slow to bring young players into the starting team. There's a raft of exciting talent coming through at lock and backrow but we are far too slow to bring them through. Ryan is the exception that proves the rule for me. Baird should start in the summer, maybe even this 6Ns if it is ever played out.

I'd agree, get them into the squad now, with a look to maybe getting some minutes in the summer or autumn. This slowly slowly approach is such a tired trope for the Irish set up as this stage.

Dubinusa

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a tour to Australia, not US/Canada. There's valid arguments to drop Toner, Murray and POM but Sexton will 100% be travelling. Even if he doesn't play, he would be invaluable to have around the younger lads.

Oz are in a dire slump. It's a great chance! No point in blooding guys against the likes of Canada.

Richie_Rich89

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd agree, get them into the squad now, with a look to maybe getting some minutes in the summer or autumn. This slowly slowly approach is such a tired trope for the Irish set up as this stage.

The national set up is probably quicker to bring through players to the first team than Leinster are. It's no coincidence that Doris and Kelleher make the breakthrough to the first XV for Heineken Cup games while Conan and Cronin are long-term injured. Not a hope they'd have been promoted otherwise.

On the other hand you had Smith picking Ryan and Porter for Ireland while they were behind Molony and Bent respectively at provincial level. Who knows, maybe Ryan would still be behind Fardy at Leinster if he hadn't been bumped up the pecking order for Ireland?

It raises serious question marks over Leinster's decision to extend Fardy's deal. You're almost waiting for Ireland to pick a Baird or a Josh Murphy before Leinster will accept they're good enough for first XXIII action.

Granny15

Dubinusa wrote: »

Oz are in a dire slump. It's a great chance! No point in blooding guys against the likes of Canada.

Against a Canada I would hope we would see a complete team of new players. Maybe a few old heads in pivotal positions.

But yes Oz are in dire straits at the moment and it’s a good opportunity for a few new introductions.

We shouldn’t hand out national caps in a blasé fashion however. It’s a great honour to represent your country at anything and it should be hard earned without stifling progress.except for of course against second tier nations

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

The national set up is probably quicker to bring through players to the first team than Leinster are. It's no coincidence that Doris and Kelleher make the breakthrough to the first XV for Heineken Cup games while Conan and Cronin are long-term injured. Not a hope they'd have been promoted otherwise.

On the other hand you had Smith picking Ryan and Porter for Ireland while they were behind Molony and Bent respectively at provincial level. Who knows, maybe Ryan would still be behind Fardy at Leinster if he hadn't been bumped up the pecking order for Ireland?

It raises serious question marks over Leinster's decision to extend Fardy's deal. You're almost waiting for Ireland to pick a Baird or a Josh Murphy before Leinster will accept they're good enough for first XXIII action.

You do come up with some unbelievable rubbish

Shefwedfan

Casey playing for Munster earlier, really he looks the real deal....I know he is young but I would push him up to international stage....

nerd69

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Casey playing for Munster earlier, really he looks the real deal....I know he is young but I would push him up to international stage....

Tad early he needs to be clear number two for Munster playing most games Murray's not there for.

Shefwedfan

nerd69 wrote: »

Tad early he needs to be clear number two for Munster playing most games Murray's not there for.

At the end of this 6 nations at the review you could say
Murray: out of form and getting older so will he ever get back to form
Cooney: don’t seem to want to play or thrust and 30

So why not bring in Casey and Blade, also the Ulster 9 from U20....keep one of the experienced players around

Same with 10, keep Sexton but if they don’t thrust R Byrne then bring in Healy and H Byrne

Shake it up a bit.

I would also look to have the following out of squad by next 6 nations
Toner -gone
POM - gone
Earls - gone
Healy - gone

typhoony

Sexton having a dig at comments from O'Gara as a pundit, then Rochelle get a beating from Racing and Jono Gibbs says they are a disgrace, pressure will be on him now to deliver as a coach, he probably stay clear of punditry

JJJackal

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

The national set up is probably quicker to bring through players to the first team than Leinster are. It's no coincidence that Doris and Kelleher make the breakthrough to the first XV for Heineken Cup games while Conan and Cronin are long-term injured. Not a hope they'd have been promoted otherwise.

On the other hand you had Smith picking Ryan and Porter for Ireland while they were behind Molony and Bent respectively at provincial level. Who knows, maybe Ryan would still be behind Fardy at Leinster if he hadn't been bumped up the pecking order for Ireland?

It raises serious question marks over Leinster's decision to extend Fardy's deal. You're almost waiting for Ireland to pick a Baird or a Josh Murphy before Leinster will accept they're good enough for first XXIII action.

Fardy is very good to be fair. Old head. Experience etc etc. Could be teaching lads loads in training too. Help develop all the young players your mentioning plus offer mentorship to Ryan etc

Richie_Rich89

JJJackal wrote: »

Fardy is very good to be fair. Old head. Experience etc etc. Could be teaching lads loads in training too. Help develop all the young players your mentioning plus offer mentorship to Ryan etc

No argument there. Despite Baird's three tries I thought Fardy was close to being homme du match v Glasgow.

It's just that it's difficult for Murphy, who looks to have drawn level with Ruddock, and Baird to keep progressing if there's no space for them in the first XXIII when the biggest matches roll around.

4. Ryan, 5. Toner. 6. Murphy/Ruddock, 7. Connors/Leavy/JvdF, 8. Doris; 19. Baird, 20. Deegan has a pretty good look to it, I think. To me, Murphy and Baird have international potential written all over them. Fardy's presence probably has helped their development thus far, but to kick on next season, I think they need to be featuring in bigger games (unless they get the Porter/Ryan treatment and get selected to play for Ireland despite being down the pecking order at Leinster).

Having Fardy around as an experienced head while internationals are away wouldn't be as much of a factor either if Toner starts being more available during these periods from next season.

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

Juventus are in Turin. That's actually a long way from Lombardy. The equivalent of Dublin and Belfast. It's not in the affected area.

3 juventus players are now suspected to have Cov19.

I understand and agree with the Ireland v Italy game getting PP but its pointless if most other sports carry on as normal, especially the UEFA competitions given the volume of travelling support from some of Europe's biggest clubs.

Shefwedfan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

3 juventus players are now suspected to have Cov19.

I understand and agree with the Ireland v Italy game getting PP but its pointless if most other sports carry on as normal, especially the UEFA competitions given the volume of travelling support from some of Europe's biggest clubs.

Rugby can’t control other sports

Soccer has always shown it has no regard for anything but money

fitz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rugby can’t control other sports

Soccer has always shown it has no regard for anything but money

It's got nothing to do with sports, the decisions shouldn't be up to spring bodies, government responses to this are way too slow.

natsdesmond89

Hi Does any1 think the playoff with Ireland and slovakia will be cancelled over this coronavirus???? I've paid for tickets flights and accommodation as a surprise for my partners 30th birthday present ��������

Dog Botherer

natsdesmond89 wrote: »

Hi Does any1 think the playoff with Ireland and slovakia will be cancelled over this coronavirus???? I've paid for tickets flights and accommodation as a surprise for my partners 30th birthday present ��������

wrong forum i reckon, but i would not count on any major sporting event in the next 6-12 months going ahead.

Squidgy Black

natsdesmond89 wrote: »

Hi Does any1 think the playoff with Ireland and slovakia will be cancelled over this coronavirus???? I've paid for tickets flights and accommodation as a surprise for my partners 30th birthday present ��������

Best to ask this question in the soccer forum, this is the rugby forum but yeah there's a chance it could be, but there's no confirmed cases in Slovakia yet.

molloyjh

typhoony wrote: »

Sexton having a dig at comments from O'Gara as a pundit, then Rochelle get a beating from Racing and Jono Gibbs says they are a disgrace, pressure will be on him now to deliver as a coach, he probably stay clear of punditry

Sexton wasnt having a dig at ROG. He was just sidestepping a question about what ROG was saying about his captaincy, ie that he didnt hear about the comments and didnt realise ROG was making them.

Burkie1203

Fairly ominous sign that the games are getting PP. Cant see unions agreeing to behind closed doors games

https://twitter.com/IndoSport/status/1234403621380464642?s=19

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They're of a similar age, both seriously talented. The French have no problem backing talent, in Ireland it's seemingly blasphemous to suggest he could be involved in a squad. Ridiculous conservatism.

I've seen this a number of times in reference to the French squad selected for the 6 Nations and imo it's just not comparable to the Ireland situation for 2 reasons:

1. We just don't have the player depth that France have. We can't afford to discard whole rafts of players in the same manner.

2. Over the last decade, that collection of players massively under-performed for France. The same can't be said of the Irish players. Take the last 5 years 6 Nations positions, for example:

| 1st | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th
Ireland | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0
France | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 1

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ido think both H Byrne and Casey should be in squad but without the time at province level they would be killed at international level, Byrne is getting good experience with Leinster but Casey?

Byrne has more minutes than Casey but I still wouldn't class it as good experience yet. Byrne has 318 senior minutes total. That's less than 4 full games.

They've both started 3 games. Those starts are going to be more beneficial to them than getting 10-15 minutes off the bench here and there, imo. (Particularly if some of those minutes are Byrne coming on when Leinster have already amassed a large lead and the game is already won).

Their starts this weekend against Glasgow and Scarlets are the kind of gametime that will really stand to them, imo.

Eod100

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Fairly ominous sign that the games are getting PP. Cant see unions agreeing to behind closed doors games

https://twitter.com/IndoSport/status/1234403621380464642?s=19

Yeah closed doors would mean refunds for all tickets so would be going for postponing. May be tricky to fit 2 rounds of fixtures in September

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Byrne has more minutes than Casey but I still wouldn't class it as good experience yet. Byrne has 318 senior minutes total. That's less than 4 full games.

They've both started 3 games. Those starts are going to be more beneficial to them than getting 10-15 minutes off the bench here and there, imo. (Particularly if some of those minutes are Byrne coming on when Leinster have already amassed a large lead and the game is already won).

Their starts this weekend against Glasgow and Scarlets are the kind of gametime that will really stand to them, imo.

That's why I put question mark, not sure how much he is getting.



I did see him play at weekend and he looks the real deal