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Guy touches girls arm, faces 10 years for sexual assault

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    #482
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    blueshade wrote: »
    I find this story outrageous. Their generation seems to have serious problems with social interaction and knowing what acceptable social norms are. How this could possibly be seen as sexual assault absolutely amazes me. A socially inept young man made a clumsy approach to some girl who has no idea what sexual assault is. Jesus, at this point we're going to have to start keeping young girls indoors at all costs unless escorted by a male chaperone, possibly veil them from head to toe so that nobody body shames them or assumes their gender whatever other twaddle they spout.

    Indeed, and ironically, it's those very people that are shouting the loudest about how this was a sexual assault that have more than likely contributed to this young man being so socially inept and awkward around girls in the first place, as our (feminist informed) society is telling them they had better do and say the right thing when they interact with girls or there will be hell to pay, so get it right, and respect their space, and say the right thing..... and oh by the way, be confident.


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    #483
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,998 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    You know, I wouldn't mind so much if he was convicted for stalking! It is somewhat salkerish in nature (it's pushing the definition a bit, but it's still within the scope of it). If an order had been placed on him not to come within x feet from her that might be reasonable (might be difficult while they were still in school though). It is the conviction for sexual assault that is completely insane. This isn't my opinion. Given the information, corroborated by the victim, this conviction is absolutely wrong, insane, and a perversion of the legal system.

    Chatting with someone who works with offenders including stalkers. They said it's rare enough they people are convicted for stalking as it a difficult charge to prove. Its actually easier to charge for sexual assault. I asked about this case and Tey said it's most likely exactly what it looks like - stalking. And stalking behaviours are high risk for escalating Into sexual or physical assault. Touching her was most likely an escalation.


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    #484
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Once again - victim blaming is all the rage.

    What would the many of the self-righteous indignants on here do if some random bloke was waiting 'in an isolated area', turned around - said stop and then took hold of their arm (when it looked like his hand was making a beeline for their balls ?) Would they regard it as a bit of harmless fun or would they turn around and clock the guy?

    Supposing the same guy turned up again - but this time tried to grab hold of them around the waist - would it still be a regarded as a bit of harmless fun - an awkward guy just trying to make friends - or would they turn around and clock the guy again?

    But its a 17 year-old girl - so what does it matter - she is probably a bit of a prude and doesn't know when an awkward guy is trying to be nice.

    By the way - the girl didn't 'destroy this lads life' - she made a complaint - the police investigated - he was charged, tried and convicted. I suspect that if this had been a rape case and the guy had got off the same self-righteous indignants would be defending the justice system for getting a guy falsely accused of rape acquitted.


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    #485
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    as our (feminist informed) society is telling them they had better do and say the right thing when they interact with girls or there will be hell to pay, so get it right, and respect their space, and say the right thing..... and oh by the way, be confident.

    Oh - you mean that you should be nice to someone when you are talking to them - that is definitely a new one. :rolleyes:


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    #486
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Chatting with someone who works with offenders including stalkers. They said it's rare enough they people are convicted for stalking as it a difficult charge to prove. Its actually easier to charge for sexual assault. I asked about this case and Tey said it's most likely exactly what it looks like - stalking. And stalking behaviours are high risk for escalating Into sexual or physical assault. Touching her was most likely an escalation.

    Sorry but that sounds like a load of hokum. There's no evidence whatsoever that he was stalking the girl and as for throwing out terms like ''an escalation'', that's dangerous territory and an extreme overreaction. I don't think that most parents would even consider going to the Police over an incident like this. Sounds like a lot of armchair psychology.

    The CPS don't seem to have learned their lesson despite the number of sexual assault cases being thrown out of court, unfortunately not until after the accused mens names and photographs are splashed all over the media. In all sexual assault cases both the accused and the alleged victim should remain anonymous until an accuser is found guilty. I think this #MeToo is to blame for a lot of this attention seeking.


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    #487
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    blueshade wrote: »
    Newsflash, as a species we are tactile creatures. Now if the girl considers having her arm or waist touched she sounds like she needs to have a bit of cop on. He didn't sexually assault her, she wasn't sexually assaulted and that anyone could possibly believe that she was assaulted beggars belief. She has destroyed this lads life and reputation and by the sounds of it, all so that she could shift the blame for her academic inadequacies onto a random lad who touched her arm and waist.

    He shouldn't have put his hands on her but we aren't talking about sexual assault, we're talking about an hysterical young wan and an inept young fella and the Police shouldn't have taken this seriously, the CPS should have laughed it out. The fact that nobody, neither her, her parents, the Police or the CPS had the gumption to point this out to her is bewildering.

    so she should have let a stranger put his hands on her when and where he pleased. Good to know.


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    #488
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so she should have let a stranger put his hands on her when and where he pleased. Good to know.

    No. He just shouldn’t be facing 10 years in jail for touching her arm...


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    #489
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, how would my female colleagues react if I told them to stop touching me? Would they see it as me sexualising normal female touching?

    he wasnt her colleague. she didnt know him except maybe as somebody at the same school.


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    #490
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    If I pet someone else’s dog without consent will it now be considered beastiality?


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    #491
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The chan chan man wrote: »
    No. He just shouldn’t be facing 10 years in jail for touching her arm...

    he isn't.


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    #492
    blueshade
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 428 ✭✭blueshade


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so she should have let a stranger put his hands on her when and where he pleased. Good to know.

    That's another overreaction from you, you do that a lot. He should not have put his hands on her. Touching her arm is not sexual assault. Touching her hip is not sexual assault. A slap on the face or a simple ''fook off'' from her would have sufficed but instead she ran home to mammy and daddy and said she'd been sexually assaulted. Most parents would have made it clear to her that she hadn't been but I suspect this girl found it a happy excuse to flunk her exams and not get into Oxford. If he had touched her in intimate areas I would completely agree with you but this girls reaction was hysteria and drama rolled into one.


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    #493
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    blueshade wrote: »
    That's another overreaction from you, you do that a lot. He should not have put his hands on her. Touching her arm is not sexual assault. Touching her hip is not sexual assault. A slap on the face or a simple ''fook off'' from her would have sufficed but instead she ran home to mammy and daddy and said she'd been sexually assaulted. Most parents would have made it clear to her that she hadn't been but I suspect this girl found it a happy excuse to flunk her exams and not get into Oxford. If he had touched her in intimate areas I would completely agree with you but this girls reaction was hysteria and drama rolled into one.

    she told him to go away. he came back and did it again. you seem to keep forgetting that


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    #494
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,641 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    blueshade wrote: »
    In all sexual assault cases both the accused and the alleged victim should remain anonymous until an accuser is found guilty. I think this #MeToo is to blame for a lot of this attention seeking.

    He was found guilty.

    No problem so?


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    #495
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,998 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    blueshade wrote: »
    Sorry but that sounds like a load of hokum. There's no evidence whatsoever that he was stalking the girl and as for throwing out terms like ''an escalation'', that's dangerous territory and an extreme overreaction. I don't think that most parents would even consider going to the Police over an incident like this. Sounds like a lot of armchair psychology.

    The CPS don't seem to have learned their lesson despite the number of sexual assault cases being thrown out of court, unfortunately not until after the accused mens names and photographs are splashed all over the media. In all sexual assault cases both the accused and the alleged victim should remain anonymous until an accuser is found guilty. I think this #MeToo is to blame for a lot of this attention seeking.

    This was an actual psychologist who works with criminals. So maybe it was armchair psychology by a professional psychologist. And maybe it was perfectly innocent behaviour masquerading as stalking. And maybe the escalation to touching was a complete coincidence.

    Or maybe it is what it looks like. CPs Thought it was worth pursuing. The magistrate agreed. Now you’re setting yourself up as an expert against the psychologist and the magistrate. That's brave at the very least and unless you have some credentials, probably foolish.


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    #496
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The guy should have been aware that to be hanging around on a bridge and suddenly going up to someone especially a young girl walking alone and putting his hands on her is a fûcking really really really creepy, uncomfortable, unnerving and frightening thing for her to have to endure...it’s in fact illegal... you want to meet people do it in a social surrounding, join a sports team, go for a few pints with a family member or mate but what he did... sorry... no excuses for it.

    Ok he might be a quiet, shy lad who struggled with interacting with people / girls but he needs to admit that as a problem and seek professional help, perhaps a psychologist...


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    #497
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 39,641 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Strumms wrote: »
    The guy should have been aware that to be hanging around on a bridge and suddenly going up to someone especially a young girl walking alone and putting his hands on her is a fûcking really really really creepy, uncomfortable, unnerving and frightening thing for her to have to endure...it’s in fact illegal... you want to meet people do it in a social surrounding, join a sports team, go for a few pints with a family member or mate but what he did... sorry... no excuses for it.

    Ok he might be a quiet, shy lad who struggled with interacting with people / girls but he needs to admit that as a problem and seek professional help, perhaps a psychologist...

    Just to point out again, the shyness was his defense, his sole excuse for touching young girls. There is absolutely no evidence to back up his claim.

    He had friends, a job and has since gone on to college.

    And it would appear from the court report that he tried it on with multiple girls.

    That doesn't sound like a very shy individual to me.

    Shy people know the difference between right and wrong, it isn't a mental disability.

    She screamed at him to stop the first time, he came back and did it again.

    His defense was BS IMO.


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    #498
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    That's really sad. But it's not as bleak as you're suggesting. Most interactions between people are grand. But if you approach women in a similar way to the guy in the article, then you could end up in trouble.

    In the past this guy's behaviour might have gone under the radar and he might have "gotten away" with it. He might have gotten a hiding from other lads for being unusual and that too might have gone under the radar.

    But let's not pretend that his behaviour would ever have been considered good or normal. There's no way that in the recent past this guy's behaviour would have been considered a good interaction.

    Those men are pathetic white knights, imagine beating someone up for touching a woman inappropriately, the thing about these white knights is that they think the women will want to date them afterwards, they want to play the hero.

    It is one rule for ugly men and another for handsome men, could you imagine if this was a man with a chiselled jaw and a 1990s floppy haircut, she would have brought him back to her bedroom.

    Just make a fake account on tinder and see what handsome men can get away with saying, I told a few girls that I would ejaculate over their faces on my fake tinder account and they sent smiley faces back, could you imagine if ugly man said that. A woman even sent me a photo of her backside.


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    #499
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Boggles wrote: »
    Just to point out again, the shyness was his defense, his sole excuse for touching young girls. There is absolutely no evidence to back up his claim.

    He had friends, a job and has since gone on to college.

    And it would appear from the court report that he tried it on with multiple girls.

    That doesn't sound like a very shy individual to me.

    Shy people know the difference between right and wrong, it isn't a mental disability.

    She screamed at him to stop the first time, he came back and did it again.

    His defense was BS IMO.

    Agree 100%... he just sounds like a creep, young girls, secluded location, at night, waiting, pouncing... nahhh that fruit loop is trouble.


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    #500
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,839 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

    It is one rule for ugly men and another for handsome men, could you imagine if this was a man with a chiselled jaw and a 1990s floppy haircut, she would have brought him back to her bedroom.

    Ehhhh no... the very last thing anyone would be thinking about would be his looks, handsome or otherwise are you on something? :confused:

    How many females would appreciate being man handled by a strange stranger in passing on a railway bridge in the dark, I’m guessing not any...


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    #501
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Indeed, and ironically, it's those very people that are shouting the loudest about how this was a sexual assault that have more than likely contributed to this young man being so socially inept and awkward around girls in the first place, as our (feminist informed) society is telling them they had better do and say the right thing when they interact with girls or there will be hell to pay, so get it right, and respect their space, and say the right thing..... and oh by the way, be confident.


    True. In other cultures a young man who breaks social protocal (as this form of touching is in the anglo sphere vs many southern countries) is given a little bit of mentorship by an older male or female who will politely (or harshly) to not do this and do this instead.



    Yet, now, it's best to ostracise them and demonise...yeah, that's going to end well. :rolleyes:


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    #502
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    Oh - you mean that you should be nice to someone when you are talking to them - that is definitely a new one. :rolleyes:


    I cannot wait to shout at a female on the street who I think is being rude or not giving me enough space on the street. Perhaps raise my hand while I'm doing it.



    Nothing will go wrong :P


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    #503
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so she should have let a stranger put his hands on her when and where he pleased. Good to know.


    Your escalating


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    #504
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    QUOTE=ohnonotgmail;111509388]he wasnt her colleague. she didnt know him except maybe as somebody at the same school.[/QUOTE]


    Wait, I'm right :eek:



    My female colleagues would say that I'm sexualising normal female dynamics?


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    #505
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    Strumms wrote: »
    Ehhhh no... the very last thing anyone would be thinking about would be his looks, handsome or otherwise are you on something? :confused:

    How many females would appreciate being man handled by a strange stranger in passing on a railway bridge in the dark, I’m guessing not any...

    I mean in general, it is called the halo effect and has been scientifically researched, if a handsome man did a creepy thing a woman wouldn't be as scared by it whereas if an ugly man did something the first thing that will come into her mind will be potential rape. The reason Ted Bundy went so long without being caught was beause he was handsome, people didn't think he could be dangerous, even when he was caught he had a string of female fans.


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    #506
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Boggles wrote: »
    Just to point out again, the shyness was his defense, his sole excuse for touching young girls. There is absolutely no evidence to back up his claim.

    He had friends, a job and has since gone on to college.

    And it would appear from the court report that he tried it on with multiple girls.

    That doesn't sound like a very shy individual to me.

    Shy people know the difference between right and wrong, it isn't a mental disability.

    She screamed at him to stop the first time, he came back and did it again.

    His defense was BS IMO.


    It is not clear in any shape or form. the only 'evidence' is a few chat logs and chinese whispers of other 'incidents'.



    Grand, if you think a man touching a woman's arm or waist is sexual assault, then that's your opinion and it is an interesting point. But if you're going to actually make up or overexagerate, then you do not have a leg to stand on.


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    #507
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    he wasnt her colleague. she didnt know him except maybe as somebody at the same school.


    Wait, I'm right :eek:



    My female colleagues would say that I'm sexualising normal female dynamics?

    unlikely


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    #508
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    unlikely


    You're wrong. Really, I can a hundred percent say that. If I told women in the workplace to not touch me while talking to me, then I would be seen as quite rude and perhaps put myself in a dangerous position of 'sexualising their behaviour'.



    Hmmmm, I'd never do it, but I imagine my time would be limited if I did tbh.


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    #509
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    You're wrong. Really, I can a hundred percent say that. If I told women in the workplace to not touch me while talking to me, then I would be seen as quite rude and perhaps put myself in a dangerous position of 'sexualising their behaviour'.



    Hmmmm, I'd never do it, but I imagine my time would be limited if I did tbh.

    lovely anecdote. how is that relevant? does it make the guy in this case less guilty?


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    #510
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »
    .

    Just make a fake account on tinder and see what handsome men can get away with saying, I told a few girls that I would ejaculate over their faces on my fake tinder account and they sent smiley faces back, could you imagine if ugly man said that. A woman even sent me a photo of her backside.

    That was probably some other durty aul fella with a fake account just like yerself


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    #511
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    lovely anecdote. how is that relevant? does it make the guy in this case less guilty?


    If you had the emotional intelligience of an adult woman, you would understand that I'm trying to explain to you that touching a woman's/man's arm or waist cannot be classed as sexual assault as it is within the range of normal tactile touch.



    How about a touchy feely woman who is attracted to women? Would that be sexual assault as there could be a sexual element?


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