ESB eCars pricing introduction

ELM327 · 01-10-2019 11:10am #1

System Upgrade

Dear EV Drivers,

To enable us to provide you with some enhanced functionality and a new app, we will be performing a system upgrade this coming Wednesday morning, October 2nd,

Black_Knight · 01-10-2019 2:56pm

ELM327 wrote: »

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Probably

spuddy · 01-10-2019 3:08pm

Any news on the actual costs? There was a piece on RTE in August about an announcement "in the next month".

zg3409 · 01-10-2019 6:39pm

They are updating many of their chargers tomorrow, probably to enable pay features. They said they would give 3 weeks notice before introducing fees, presumably to get people to update their apps and set up payment information. There was talk of various costs, and pricing options. Talk is of price per kWh only with overstay fees after an hour or two. They might announce something if the updates on Wednesday are successful.

Gile_na_gile · 03-10-2019 11:04pm

Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.

McGiver · 04-10-2019 8:14am

Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min

Mickeroo · 04-10-2019 8:53am

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.

McGiver wrote: »

Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min

Where are you guys seeing this info?

ELM327 · 04-10-2019 8:58am

zg3409 wrote: »

They are updating many of their chargers tomorrow, probably to enable pay features. They said they would give 3 weeks notice before introducing fees, presumably to get people to update their apps and set up payment information. There was talk of various costs, and pricing options. Talk is of price per kWh only with overstay fees after an hour or two. They might announce something if the updates on Wednesday are successful.

This is the worst possible option.
Overstay should be 45 mins.
Charge per minute + per kWh

liamog · 04-10-2019 9:38am

The only people who think 20 mins is a reasonable time to use a charger are Gen 1.5 Leaf owners.
With current crop of bigger battery cars and eCars slow rapid chargers (50kW), it's got to the point where I expect a car to be charging for around an hour.

ELM327 · 04-10-2019 9:50am

The only people that will be using these will be leaf owners
The vast majority of bigger battery cars will use Ionity and Tesla(where applicable) and easygo at a push
I don't want to queue behind someone for 1 hour if I need to then charge for 1 hour after

Black_Knight · 04-10-2019 10:01am

IMO, overstay should only kick in once the car has finished charging but is still connected. Tough to gauge though, as some cars have an automatic cable release when full, and once full the e cars card isn't needed to stop the session.

unkel · 04-10-2019 10:04am

liamog wrote: »

With current crop of bigger battery cars and eCars slow rapid chargers (50kW), it's got to the point where I expect a car to be charging for around an hour.

I agree the natural fast charging time for a lot of owners of newish EVs is around an hour because either their car is slow or the slow ESB charger limit of just 50kW

Charging this long is unnecessary though to reach their destination or the next fast charger on their route. Thus they are unnecessarily holding up the charger for the next user. They should be disincentivised to use more than they need. I agree with ELM327 here, fairly hefty overstay charges should begin at about 30-45 minutes.

zg3409 · 04-10-2019 10:06am

Mickeroo wrote: »

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Currently still showing sterling prices of 25p per kWH and £4 per month.

McGiver wrote: »

Overstay after two hours? That's plain wrong. Should kick in at T=30min

Where are you guys seeing this info?

The sterling prices are from ESB mainland UK chargers, the prices of which will have zero bearing on ROI and NI pricing.

My reference to kWh energy charges comes from this document here:

https://www.irishevowners.ie/esb-ecars-meeting-23-8-2019-full-report/

Quoted here:

The fees will be based on Energy used rather than on how much time you spend at a fast charger
 There will not be a connection charge.
 An over-stay fee will be implemented at fast charge points

Fees are anticipated to go into effect three weeks after pricing has been announced, and users will be encouraged to register in advance.

The "after an hour or two" was based on speaking to those at the meeting, the penalties are not intended to be immediately harsh, although I personally would like them to be harsh and on fast chargers I would like some time based fee to encourage people to give up at 80% as charging is slower from 80 to 100%.

In terms of fees, they say cheaper than diesel or petrol, but also that 99% of charging will happen at home. As for actual prices, no-one knows, probably not esb.

zg3409 · 04-10-2019 10:14am

Black_Knight wrote: »

IMO, overstay should only kick in once the car has finished charging but is still connected. Tough to gauge though, as some cars have an automatic cable release when full, and once full the e cars card isn't needed to stop the session.

The charger can tell the car is still connected, even if cable lock is open, same for chademo which unlocks when full. Typically the car decides on CCS with an option to keep it locked when full. If the space is blocked this can cause problems particular for cars with the charge port on the side as often they can only use one of the 2 spots provided.

A per minute charge immediately when full would be great to concentrate the mind to return to vehicle on fast chargers.

samih · 04-10-2019 10:24am

I still don't see any point about price per kWh on rapids. On AC chargers yes but when you're queueing at a rapid you don't really want somebody to stay plugged in for an extra hour to get that last 20 percent in their battery when they should just vacate the charger and drive towards their destination and the next charger where they could then top up the same 20 percent in a fraction of time.

slave1 · 04-10-2019 10:31am

..so this is another speculation spin, why not just wait until we see the real pricing structure

unkel · 04-10-2019 11:50am

Well the ESB did ask us for our opinion on the charging structure, I sure hope we are getting what I voted for

jusmeig · 04-10-2019 11:53am

Can't wait for charges.
Them parasites who farm the eCars point in Sallin's train station with their revolving leafs will be devastated (you know who you are)

zg3409 · 04-10-2019 12:03pm

jusmeig wrote: »

Can't wait for charges.
Them parasites who farm the eCars point in Sallin's train station with their revolving leafs will be devastated (you know who you are)

Fees are only coming in for fast chargers initially, then slow chargers probably 9 months later. Paying for parking is an issue for owners of parking space like Irish rail. This a slightly separate to fees to fill up car with power.

babybuilder · 04-10-2019 1:46pm

Lol. Introduce charging on a crap network. When we haven't reached a critical mass or number of EVs. Anyone any idea on the extra charging points that are going to be installed apart from the ionity ones?

Gile_na_gile · 04-10-2019 1:54pm

Search for it. There is a thread on it, plus https://www.irishevowners.ie/ieova-meeting-with-esb-ecars-23-aug-2019/

Gile_na_gile · 04-10-2019 2:01pm

Mickeroo wrote: »

Where are you guys seeing this info?

On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.

zg3409 · 04-10-2019 2:20pm

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Mickeroo wrote: »

Where are you guys seeing this info?

On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.

This app you refer to is for UK mainland chargers. The roi and ni app disappeared a while ago from play store.

Mickeroo · 04-10-2019 2:21pm

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

On the updated ESB app on Google Play. It now asks you to sign up as if charging were already in place.

Didn't realise they had a new app out. What's it called? I can't see any on the play store at the mo.

Silent Running · 04-10-2019 3:18pm

Why aren't the ESB, along with other providers, being forced to make all their chargers accept contactless payment. All this bolloxogy about apps and fobs should be done away with. Even the UK has made this a requirement for new chargers.

It should be a Europe wide requirement. Just pull up to any charger, swipe your credit/debit card or phone and charge away. No apps, accounts or RFID needed.

liamog · 04-10-2019 3:23pm

I can imagine ESB aren't because their is a weird pressure from some Irish EV drivers for rapid charger use to billed on peoples domestic electricity bill.

There's only really one EV pressure group, and not many people take part.
I've noticed that all the new eCars eFacec Triple Head chargers have a blanked out space for a card terminal.

babybuilder · 04-10-2019 4:00pm

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Search for it. There is a thread on it, plus https://www.irishevowners.ie/ieova-meeting-with-esb-ecars-23-aug-2019/

Pay for charging yes. Additional charge points?

McGiver · 04-10-2019 4:09pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The only people that will be using these will be leaf owners
The vast majority of bigger battery cars will use Ionity and Tesla(where applicable) and easygo at a push
I don't want to queue behind someone for 1 hour if I need to then charge for 1 hour after

Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.

ELM327 · 04-10-2019 4:11pm

McGiver wrote: »

Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.

You seem to be agreeing with my point? Why the No?

liamog · 04-10-2019 4:50pm

McGiver wrote: »

Sorry but no. It's about efficient scarce resource allocation. You can't have user charging at 10kWh to get 80 to 95 SOC if some other user would be charging 40kWh to get from 20 to 70.

30-40 mins and off you go. Konas can go and move on to next charger if they need more. Or go to Ionity.

It does sound like you are agreeing with Elm327 here, theres a few of us here that believe charging should be per min to encourage people to move when the charging rate starts to drop.

If a Kona needs an extra 50kW to complete its journey, there's not really much difference between it charging for 60 mins at one eCars 50kW point, versus charging for 30 mins at two 50kW points.

September1 · 04-10-2019 5:08pm

liamog wrote: »

It does sound like you are agreeing with Elm327 here, theres a few of us here that believe charging should be per min to encourage people to move when the charging rate starts to drop.

If a Kona needs an extra 50kW to complete its journey, there's not really much difference between it charging for 60 mins at one eCars 50kW point, versus charging for 30 mins at two 50kW points.

It takes time to leave motorway, arrive at charger, plug the car or so - this effectively doubles this time. Meanwhile if they charge 60 mins at one location they can have a meal or do some shopping. There is no need to make live of EV travelers miserable.

ESB eCars pricing introduction

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