Cyclists

amadangomor

Chiparus wrote: »

Do you in the prolitariates work topless at your work place or gaff as you probably call it?

HaHa, I work in one of the most hi tech gaffs in the world my good fellow. T-shirts and jeans are what 99% of people wear so the self obsessed do stand out.

Chiparus

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Surely it's obvious that cars become more or less of a threat depending on how congested the traffic is at a particular time of the day, in a particular location? The point is that cyclists do not, because such congestion affects them far less. So if you have a daily on-foot commute through the city centre at rush hour when speeding or breaking red lights is virtually impossible for cars, you'll notice the rampant sh!tty behaviour from cyclists far more than usual.

How are cyclists a threat to you?

Motorists kill pedestrians all day , congestion or no congestion, they rarely observe the 30kmph speed limit and regularly break the lights. Indeed orange to them means accelerate, not stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=OWC8sT06Zi0

Even public transport is more of a threat than cyclists.
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/eden-quay-remain-closed-during-16947941

Chiparus

amadangomor wrote: »

HaHa, I work in one of the most hi tech gaffs in the world my good fellow. T-shirts and jeans are what 99% of people wear so the self obsessed do stand out.

Thats a relief , glad to see the rest of you wear a uniform of sorts and dont stand out.

Cannot have management being confused with the riffraff, what?

hatrickpatrick

Chiparus wrote: »

How are cyclists a threat to you?

Motorists kill pedestrians all day , congestion or no congestion, they rarely observe the 30kmph speed limit and regularly break the lights. Indeed orange to them means accelerate, not stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=OWC8sT06Zi0

Even public transport is more of a threat than cyclists.
https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/eden-quay-remain-closed-during-16947941

I'm merely stating my own experience. Rush hour motor traffic in Dublin City Centre is almost always gridlocked at the times of day I tend to be walking through the city, but I have regularly been crossing the road with a green man and a stationary line of cars, only to have to suddenly stop or rush across the last gap before reaching the pavement because of the constant line of cyclists whizzing through the red lights without stopping. Why would I make that up? As I say, I've never driven. I have no reason whatsoever to dislike cyclists and not motorists other than personal experience.

hatrickpatrick

Invisibleman wrote: »

I stop at most lights , sometimes I’ll go through but only if safe with no cars around

What about pedestrians? If there's a green man, a pedestrian in a hurry could start crossing without warning and they shouldn't have to dodge a cyclist who they couldn't see was about to break the red lights because a stationary car was obscuring that cyclist from view.

beauf

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

....
Surely it's obvious that cars become more or less of a threat depending on how congested the traffic is at a particular time of the day, in a particular location? ....

Except its not.

Lots of very detailed studies show clearly the most dangerous time to be a pedestrian is morning and evening rush hour. Worse in winter.

It's simply because of numbers. More people or cars = more incidents.

Garda observed drivers breaking lights 24 times more often than cyclists.

https://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-dublin-3018953-Oct2016/

Most people probably don't notice it now because it's become normalised.

Invisibleman

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What about pedestrians? If there's a green man, a pedestrian in a hurry could start crossing without warning and they shouldn't have to dodge a cyclist who they couldn't see was about to break the red lights because a stationary car was obscuring that cyclist from view.

Of course pedestrians too they have right of way I meant if there’s no one there, when I go in before the mad rush

hatrickpatrick

beauf wrote: »

Except its not.

Lots of very detailed studies show clearly the most dangerous time to be a pedestrian is morning and evening rush hour. Worse in winter.

It's simply because of numbers. More people or cars = more incidents.

Garda observed drivers breaking lights 24 times more often than cyclists.

https://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-dublin-3018953-Oct2016/

Most people probably don't notice it now because it's become normalised.

I'll ask for the third time: As a person who has never driven a car and walks extensively day in and day out, what reason could I possibly have to dislike cyclists and be ambivalent towards motorists apart from genuine personal experience?

beauf

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm merely stating my own experience. ....Why would I make that up? ...

Not that you are making it up. It could be true for your journey or perhaps you're only paying attention to cyclists. Who knows for what reason. Perhaps you only notice people breaking red to green and not green to red. Perhaps your journey has a lot of junctions with lot of cycling traffic. Lots of factors.

beauf

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'll ask for the third time: As a person who has never driven a car and walks extensively day in and day out, what reason could I possibly have to dislike cyclists and be ambivalent towards motorists apart from genuine personal experience?

Who cares. Fact is your observations do not mirror factual studies.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Make it legal like Paris...

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

Etc.

beggars_bush

Motorists using phones while driving is a far bigger issue

Achasanai

beauf wrote: »

Make it legal like Paris...

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

I think this is a great idea. You have some intersections (usually when it's green for pedestrians on all roads) in Dublin that have a green for cyclists and the atmosphere seems different for me (as a pedestrian) as all cyclists (in my experience) yield to pedestrians.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Surely it's obvious that cars become more or less of a threat depending on how congested the traffic is at a particular time of the day, in a particular location?

They might become less of a threat (because their speed is reduced) but as a pedestrian, I still experience a lack of regard for the rules of the road during rush hour traffic. I see everyday examples of cars breaking lights, not indicating, not stopping for pedestrian crossings. It's far more disconcerting for me, as a pedestrian (and as a driver when I'm in the car) when a car is doing this rather than a cyclist.



Mounting the curb is, I grant you, nearly exclusively a cyclist trait and very annoying.

Thelonious Monk

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What about pedestrians? If there's a green man, a pedestrian in a hurry could start crossing without warning and they shouldn't have to dodge a cyclist who they couldn't see was about to break the red lights because a stationary car was obscuring that cyclist from view.

You're going on like this is a real problem. You have to share the city with cyclists and motorists, so tough. If you're going to be hurt or killed it's going to be a motor that kills you.
I break lights yes, when it's safe and not to the the annoyance of anyone, and I always will. Same way everyone who drives speeds, when they think it's safe to do so, that's never going to change.

billie1b

AllForIt wrote: »

Don't know hasn't happened yet.

Em yes it has, try saying that to the poor family of the motorcyclist who was killed in Mulhuddart a couple of months ago cause he tried to avoid a cyclist who shot out in front of him.

Thelonious Monk

billie1b wrote: »

Em yes it has, try saying that to the poor family of the motorcyclist who was killed in Mulhuddart a couple of months ago cause he tried to avoid a cyclist who shot out in front of him.

How do you know this happened? Were you part of the inquest?

Thargor

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'll ask for the third time: As a person who has never driven a car and walks extensively day in and day out, what reason could I possibly have to dislike cyclists and be ambivalent towards motorists apart from genuine personal experience?

It's like you never heard of air pollution or read anything about what all those harmless motorists are doing to your body while you're walking through the perfectly safe traffic gridlock on your evil cyclist patrol.

We'll just leave aside any inconvenient facts about the amount of people killed during the totally safe traffic gridlock hours of the day aswell because evidence doesn't matter in the face of your extensive personal experience :rolleyes:

teednab-el

One More Toy wrote: »

Why do they never wear a helmet or adhere to road signs/traffic lights?

You are a t@ol.

Edgware

jiltloop wrote: »

I'm a cyclist sometimes and when I am I stop at lights and wear a helmet. If i decided not to I wouldn't hurt anyone but myself.

What's far more worrying than cyclists not wearing helmets and stopping at lights is the amount of terrible driving on show in the roads every day. That's where there's a potential risk to anyone's life, you, me, your family etc etc.

Cyclist bashing is so stupid, pointless and misguided.

I quite enjoy roaring at some gob****e on his/her bike with no lights or hi viz. Or just as I pass give them a great blast of the horn.

AndrewJRenko

Invisibleman wrote: »

I used to drive to work in Dublin City for 15 years but have cycled the last two, I stop at most lights , sometimes I’ll go through but only if safe with no cars around, no helmet but have a hi vis vest, anyway the point is, as a cyclist you get dogs abuse for all sorts,having to go around cars parked in bike lanes or on the path,yet cars are flying through red lights, it happens on both sides, but people seem to think it’s ok to shout and throw stuff at a cyclist it’s crazy

Yes, it happens on both sides, but only one side kills two or three people each week on the roads. It's not cyclists.

billie1b wrote: »

Em yes it has, try saying that to the poor family of the motorcyclist who was killed in Mulhuddart a couple of months ago cause he tried to avoid a cyclist who shot out in front of him.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

How do you know this happened? Were you part of the inquest?

There hasn't been an inquest. Gardai are seeking a cyclist 'who may have witnessed' the crash between the motorcyclist and the car.



So yes Billie, what's your source for this information?

Thelonious Monk

Edgware wrote: »

I quite enjoy roaring at some gob****e on his/her bike with no lights or hi viz. Or just as I pass give them a great blast of the horn.

Yes that's expected as you've proven yourself to be a total f*cking arsehole in many threads already

AndrewJRenko

Edgware wrote: »

I quite enjoy roaring at some gob****e on his/her bike with no lights or hi viz. Or just as I pass give them a great blast of the horn.

So you're a bit of a bully then? So brave when behind the wheel or behind the keyboard?

AndrewJRenko

Achasanai wrote: »

Mounting the curb is, I grant you, nearly exclusively a cyclist trait and very annoying.

How do you reckon all those cars, vans and trucks you see parked fully or partially on the pavement get there?

AndrewJRenko

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Edit: I only came in to give my opinion, but it's obvious that some people are die hard "Motorists are bad" and others are die hard "Cyclists are bad". We can all get along, but the nature of people means that we never will.

It's not 'the nature of people' that it is the issue. It is the decades of evidence that shows that motorists kill and maim with alarming frequency, while cyclists don't. More than 4,000 have been killed by motorists in the past 17 years here. Zero people have been killed by cyclists in that same period.

Opinions are great. Evidence-based conclusions are better.

AndrewJRenko

Hoboo wrote: »

All that says is cyclists don't give a **** about their own, can't even be bothered writing thoughts and prayers or other such nonsense.

'their own'? Cycling isn't a race or religion or political party. It's a mode of transport. Today's cyclists are tomorrow's drivers and the next day's bus or tram users.

Thelonious Monk

Cars seem to get a free pass on everything including killing a few people every week and I think it's because somehow the motor industry has everyone brainwashed that cars are more important than people. So you see traffic and parking violations everywhere you look in the city centre yet everyone thinks they have the right of way everywhere and no one pays any notice to it. Cyclists are not seen in the same way by most people so any little thing is picked up on immediately much to their ire. If you cycle around town you have to have your wits about you and you see awful dangerous driving and cars all over footpaths and parked illegally everywhere.

donvito99

Traffic lights are stupid things designed to regulate the traffic caused by cars, they have nothing to do with safety.

If you replaced the tools sitting on their sofas in traffic every day on the quays with buses or cyclists, there would be no need for lights or yellow boxes or or double yellows etc etc

Society is full of enough costs and rules already, motorists want more and more and more to be imposed on the people who didn't warrant those rules in the first place

AndrewJRenko

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

One thing that gets overlooked in these threads is the fact that motorists cannot easily speed or break red lights in Dublin city centre during busy periods because the city gets so unbelievably gridlocked, so for pedestrians, cyclists are proportionally more of a nuisance. A car can't run a red light on Nassau St or George's St if the traffic is backed up all the way to the next junction, but cyclists in these locations regularly do so, and also have a tendency to mount the curb (Nassau St turning on to Dawson St in particular) in order to cut around the corner when the lights are red.

Yes, motorists overall cause more trouble on the roads, but in the very specific case of city centre rush hour, they simply don't have the space required to speed or break lights on a regular basis, and obviously there's no point in a motorist trying to mount the kerb in order to cut around a corner since the pavement isn't wide enough between buildings and traffic lights. Gridlock doesn't tend to slow cyclists down, so it's much more annoying when a whole line of cars is stopped, you have a green man to cross the road, and you're just getting to the other side when some asshole on a bike who was obscured by the tailback on the far side of the road comes flying through without regard for the pedestrians trying to cross. And this happens every single day, in one or two very busy and very specific locations.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Are more annoying at rush hour when the traffic is moving too slowly for cars to be much of a threat. That's when the rampant light breaking and pavement mounting becomes incredibly noticeable. How is that so difficult to at least engage with? You can't get hit by a speeding car on Leeson Street at rush hour when the traffic is backed up all the way to Donnybrook and is crawling along at a snail's pace, but you'll regularly have to dash across the road at the canal even with a green man, because the cyclists turning off from the cycle lanes generally ignore the red lights such that a green man becomes totally meaningless.

Surely it's obvious that cars become more or less of a threat depending on how congested the traffic is at a particular time of the day, in a particular location? The point is that cyclists do not, because such congestion affects them far less. So if you have a daily on-foot commute through the city centre at rush hour when speeding or breaking red lights is virtually impossible for cars, you'll notice the rampant sh!tty behaviour from cyclists far more than usual.

EDIT to address your edit:

I don't drive and I have never driven. I commute via public transport and walk. I have no reason whatsoever to have an ambivalent attitude towards motorists and a hostile attitude towards cyclists apart from personal experiences over ten years of commuting in this manner.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm merely stating my own experience. Rush hour motor traffic in Dublin City Centre is almost always gridlocked at the times of day I tend to be walking through the city, but I have regularly been crossing the road with a green man and a stationary line of cars, only to have to suddenly stop or rush across the last gap before reaching the pavement because of the constant line of cyclists whizzing through the red lights without stopping. Why would I make that up? As I say, I've never driven. I have no reason whatsoever to dislike cyclists and not motorists other than personal experience.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'll ask for the third time: As a person who has never driven a car and walks extensively day in and day out, what reason could I possibly have to dislike cyclists and be ambivalent towards motorists apart from genuine personal experience?

Are you for real? Seriously, are you for real?

Cars can't break lights on Dawson St or Nassau St? Would you like me to hang out there some mornings and share the video results with you, showing how one or two or three or four drivers push through on the amber and red lights with every change of lights?

Would you like me to spend some time on Leeson St bridge and show you the number of drivers that break the lights to block the pedestrian/cycle crossing? And yes, you're right that traffic is gridlocked, so it doesn't get them anywhere or save them any time. It just gets them to the back of the next queue of cars a few seconds earlier. But that doesn't stop them driving through red lights, or 'getting stuck' when the green light changes to amber or red (which strangely enough, seems to come as a big surprise to many drivers, as if they've never seen a green light go amber/red before).

The findings from the Luas Red Light camera on Benburb St show that you're talking through your hat Hatrick.

http://kerrycyclingcampaign.org/but-all-drivers-break-the-lights/

88% of red light jumpers at the Luas junction at Benburb St, in the heart of the city, were motorists, not cyclists.

So yes, your question about why you have a clear and obvious personal bias against cyclists is an interesting question. Maybe you'd like to do some introspection on that.

Thelonious Monk

Because he gives cars a free pass on traffic violations due to social conditioning in favour of motorists. On the other hand cyclists have somehow been made out as the arch enemy of the motorist so he notices everything they might do wrong.

Achasanai

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How do you reckon all those cars, vans and trucks you see parked fully or partially on the pavement get there?

Fair enough, but I was talking more of mounting the curb to cycle on the footpath.