Girls don't cycle! Guess whos fault it is?

magicbastarder wrote: »

ACKSHERLY, i think many cyclists have been seen dead, even when wearing hi-vis.

Yeah, to be seen the other party has to look, as a motorcyclist I see it all the time.

A few years back I lost a good friend to a driver who didn't see him and turner right, across his path. Thing is he was an escort outrider at the time, low speed, full hi-viz, flashing lights (red and amber) the full monte, somehow she still didn't 'see' him.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

It's also worth remembering that where formal research has been done into cyclist/motorist collisions, it generally confirms that, more often than not, the motorist is at fault.

To my mind statistics like this only confirm how hard motorists strive to miss them.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Like the bus driver in Mary White's case above?

Or like the driver who drove blindly at Edward Duggan and killed him?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-found-not-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-causing-death-of-cyclist-in-kerry-908096.html

Or the truck driver who crushed Donna Fox while she was stopped at traffic lights?

https://www.thejournal.ie/donna-fox-cycling-laws-4447232-Jan2019/

You should really try reading some of that research.

Nobody doubts that cars/trucks/ buses kill people, you can pull statistics like that out of your a*se all day, no one will doubt you. What I'm saying is, the way a lot of cyclists behave in the midst of these vehicles, begs the question why a lot more of them aren't statistics. The very fact that they aren't statistics lends a lot more weight to your statistics.

Marhay70 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Like the bus driver in Mary White's case above?

Or like the driver who drove blindly at Edward Duggan and killed him?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/man-found-not-guilty-of-dangerous-driving-causing-death-of-cyclist-in-kerry-908096.html

Or the truck driver who crushed Donna Fox while she was stopped at traffic lights?

https://www.thejournal.ie/donna-fox-cycling-laws-4447232-Jan2019/

You should really try reading some of that research.

Nobody doubts that cars/trucks/ buses kill people, you can pull statistics like that out of your a*se all day, no one will doubt you. What I'm saying is, the way a lot of cyclists behave in the midst of these vehicles, begs the question why a lot more of them aren't statistics. The very fact that they aren't statistics lends a lot more weight to your statistics.

The fact that cyclists are about 5% of road deaths suggests that cyclists are not the root cause or common denominator in road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. Pedestrians are the next largest bunch.
If you're not noticing the dangerous behaviour of motorists in the midst of motorists every day, you're not a very observant driver.

Here's an interesting perspective from the enlightened WMP in the UK

What was the topic again?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The fact that cyclists are about 5% of road deaths suggests that cyclists are not the root cause or common denominator in road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. Pedestrians are the next largest bunch.
If you're not noticing the dangerous behaviour of motorists in the midst of motorists every day, you're not a very observant driver.

Don't be trying to turn this on me, you don't know how observant a driver I am or if I'm a driver at all. My point is that there are more statistics which could be reported every day than those that are, and if they were, then your blameless cyclists would turn out not to be so blameless. For instance, the young lady on Capel Street two weeks ago, suitably helmeted and hi vis jacketed, who calculated she could ignore a red light and beat a Luas tram to the other side of Abbey Street, turned out she was right but only after a heart stopping moment when her foot slipped off the pedal. that was a split second from being a statistic but by some quirk of fate it wasn't. Whose fault would that have been?
When cyclists compete with heavy traffic on the streets there is absolutely no doubt that it's an unequal contest, no doubt of who is going to come off worst in a collision. There is no doubt either that there are careless drivers and bad drivers but why stack the odds against yourself by behaving like an idiot.

Marhay70 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The fact that cyclists are about 5% of road deaths suggests that cyclists are not the root cause or common denominator in road deaths. Most road deaths are motorists killing themselves, other motorists or passengers. Pedestrians are the next largest bunch.
If you're not noticing the dangerous behaviour of motorists in the midst of motorists every day, you're not a very observant driver.

. There is no doubt either that there are careless drivers and bad drivers but why stack the odds against yourself by behaving like an idiot.

What's your definition of 'behaving like an idiot'? Does it include cycling in ordinary clothes in daylight?

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think it really matters what the topic was. any thread which in any way mentions cycling attracts hordes of non-cyclists telling cyclists what they're doing wrong.

Goes both ways.
The old excuse of "i also drive a car" many cyclists use as kind of reason why their opinion means more i dont buy either.
If you ride your bicycle like an idiot, i fully expect the same from you in a car.

Bicycles and cars shouldnt share the same road. Unfortunately the infrastructure here in Ireland is in a state they are.

The Netherlands have cycle lanes wherever possible but as soon as there is none available, the same trouble as here starts.

https://www.dumpert.nl/item/7760695_da1714df

storker wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's your definition of 'behaving like an idiot'? Does it include cycling in ordinary clothes in daylight?

He gave you an example but you snipped it.

Yes, I saw the example, and I considered asking if he often notices similar near miss incidents with motorists, but I thought it might help to move the discussion forward if I clarified his overall definition instead.

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

shootermacg wrote: »

I think the reason for a lot of the complaints from cyclists has something to do with the fact that their lives have regularly been put at risk, through no fault of their own, by careless driving.

and if challenged on this the motorists response is often "why aren't you wearing a helmet" or similar.

As if the motorists actions are influenced by the cyclists choice of head-wear.

While I agree with your general thinking, helmet use has been linked to closer overtaking by motorists

https://researchportal.bath.ac.uk/en/publications/bicycle-helmet-wearing-is-associated-with-closer-overtaking-by-dr

I don't see it mentioned either on thread nor in the article either - the weight of schoolbags.
I was a girl cyclist - I lived in the country and cycled a mile to the national primary road to get the school bus into town. Traffic wasn't much of an issue, road was wide enough for a car which you heard coming. Neither were comments from others as the only one's who saw me cycling were my neighbours. I had to wear a knee length skirt for school and there were times when you had to cycle with one hand holding your skirt down. Some days it was really tough cycling with a heavy schoolbag on my back, then throw in a p.e. bag, home ec ingredients and windy rainy weather.


My son likes cycling but he doesn't cycle to school, the weight of his bag, I couldn't put it on my back I can barely lift it and his locker is full in the school. I haven't noticed many kids male or female cycling to his school.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to put the 'goes both ways' in context, it's not cyclists that kill 2 or 3 people each week on the roads.

And in general, research suggests that cyclists make better drivers than non cyclists.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/

You dont have to put anything i type into context. And certainly not like that.
I was replying to the "the motorist telling the cyclist what they do wrong" part with the "goes both ways"

inforfun wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Just to put the 'goes both ways' in context, it's not cyclists that kill 2 or 3 people each week on the roads.

And in general, research suggests that cyclists make better drivers than non cyclists.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2018/10/09/cyclists-are-better-drivers-than-motorists-finds-study/

You dont have to put anything i type into context. And certainly not like that.
I was replying to the "the motorist telling the cyclist what they do wrong" part with the "goes both ways"

Apologies, my misunderstanding

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

I don't see it mentioned either on thread nor in the article either - the weight of schoolbags.
I was a girl cyclist - I lived in the country and cycled a mile to the national primary road to get the school bus into town. Traffic wasn't much of an issue, road was wide enough for a car which you heard coming. Neither were comments from others as the only one's who saw me cycling were my neighbours. I had to wear a knee length skirt for school and there were times when you had to cycle with one hand holding your skirt down. Some days it was really tough cycling with a heavy schoolbag on my back, then throw in a p.e. bag, home ec ingredients and windy rainy weather.


My son likes cycling but he doesn't cycle to school, the weight of his bag, I couldn't put it on my back I can barely lift it and his locker is full in the school. I haven't noticed many kids male or female cycling to his school.

Did you try using a bike carrier or racks with bungee cords to hold his bag? It would be very exceptional that a school bag couldn't be supported by a carrier.