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oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

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24567…106

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    #32
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The other thread hereabouts about TV intros had one on 70's documentary The World at War about the second world war. I had an oul look again at a couple of episodes that evening and one on the fall of France after Germany invaded mentioned the terrible state of the long lines of civillian refugees fleeing the conflict. And you know what stands out, and stands out with any such genuine refugee flood? the vast majority of refugees were women and children and old people. Vanishingly few young men. Compare and contrast with the current so called chancers "refugee crisis". The ratio is completely reversed. Nearly all young men. Hmmmm. Or as I like to call it; utter bollocks.

    Families, women and kids, the elderly? No problem with those folks coming here as genuine refugees from actual warzones. Young men coming across the Mediterranean in their hundreds of thousands? Bugger off, go home.

    To be fair, W. It’s not always an “easy route” for these people. The men go first to see if it’s safe and then send for the family.

    What’s the quote, ‘You don’t put a child in a boat unless the water is safer than the land’? Something like that.

    There will always be “chancers” and “scammers” but they should be easily weeded out by the system. The fact they’re not is, mostly, down to the amount of money being made by keeping these people within the system.

    As for the real refugees, they wouldn’t still be coming here to be locked up in substandard accommodation and treated like prisoners if it wasn’t better than where they came from.

    The tide is turning…



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    #33
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    Do we have any case studies? I’m sure there are small towns in Ireland already that have direct provision accommodation. How have they fared?

    Depends who's answering. Agendas fly around this thing like bullets. The only winners ultimately from my view are the FG pals who get the contracts for their failed hostelry and the FG who have an eye on higher profile jobs outside of Ireland.
    gctest50 wrote: »
    Have to do something to counteract all the inbreeding

    Yeah what is it with South Dublin posh areas not looking outside their own? We need to to introduce Blaithnead to some nice Afghani lad and Fiachra would have lovely kids with that Mali lass. Let's not have Foxrock cut off from the world.


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    #34
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    As for the real refugees, they wouldn’t still be coming here to be locked up in substandard accommodation and treated like prisoners if it wasn’t better than where they came from.
    I call shenanigans on that E. And it is better than were they come from, once they get into the system and out the other end of it. Three square meals and roof over their heads and then out into a welfare system that's one of the most generous in the world and a culture of suckers and handwringers that accommodate them and ignore the local's concerns and have the brass neck to accuse them of being intolerant or racist.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #35
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    I think the people of Ireland have spoken and 250 new people in a small town just isn't a good idea.

    The government need to come up with a scheme the people agree with, not force something on them.

    My own view is each town should be asked what they think they can cope with.


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    #36
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    biko wrote: »
    The social democratic take on things
    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=895081304203213&id=100011040543342

    As I have said earlier, social democrats will walk all over the locals to get what they want.
    In other places it's not uncommon for them to run the centres and profit directly from their own politics.

    What a weak case to make by that guy. The same old disingenuous analogy of Irish emigrating to America. The people represented by the statues in Sligo were processed legally at Ellis island. They didn't sneak in. They were not given any free lodgings or food, of any kind. Their religious and cultural pursuits were not facilitated by Uncle Sam but self-funded.

    That migration is clearly NOT on the same basis as the movement of migrants into Ireland in 2019 who abuse the asylum system with bogus claims.

    There is one odd parallel however - moneymaking by self-serving natives. Many Americans were happy to take in the Irish to exploit their labour in factories and farms; here we have failed hostelry owners, unscrupulous elements of the legal fraternity who launch appeal after appeal with taxpayers' money, of course careerist politicians and quango fund recipients.

    That train is a hard one to stop.


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    #37
    the dark phantom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭the dark phantom


    TeaBagMania wrote: »
    Ireland as a country is no place for hundreds of migrants, take a ride over to Balbriggan and see how well that community is faring

    Ireland is the perfect place for thousands of immigrants, The ignorance of most of its natives needs to be breed out anyway, An empty island that could provide sustenance for millions more people.


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    #38
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    The usual witch hunt against the person who steps above the parapet and says what everyone is thinking is as predictable as it is pathetic. Leftist "journalists" lining up to have a pop at history's greatest racist, Noel Grealish.


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    #39
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    the dark phantom wrote: »
    Ireland is the perfect place for thousands of immigrants, The ignorance of most of its natives needs to be breed out anyway, An empty island that could provide sustenance for millions more people.

    Wow, with that attitude, I'm sure you will be offering your spare room as accommodation??


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    #40
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,549 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Send them to ballygobackwards


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    #41
    WB Yokes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 370 ✭✭WB Yokes


    the dark phantom wrote: »
    Ireland is the perfect place for thousands of immigrants, The ignorance of most of its natives needs to be breed out anyway, An empty island that could provide sustenance for millions more people.

    No thanks.


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    #42
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,551 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I call shenanigans on that E. And it is better than were they come from, once they get into the system and out the other end of it. Three square meals and roof over their heads and then out into a welfare system that's one of the most generous in the world and a culture of suckers and handwringers that accommodate them and ignore the local's concerns and have the brass neck to accuse them of being intolerant or racist.

    It’s a terrible system, from what I’ve seem anyway. It’s akin to a prison. And considering you can be there for the guts of a decade I’d have to think the majority of them in there consider it better than where they’ve been. The “unaccompanied” minors in the hostels with adults

    You’d have to wonder why we don’t have a “system” that takes 6 months to process and allows for appeal after appeal after appeal. No real drive to educate on the country or mandatory English classes.

    Direct Provision is big business so it’s not going to change anytime soon. Local concerns will be taken onboard and, summarily, ignored. Putting a few hundred refugees into a town with about a thousand people is a terrible idea. “Culture shock” for the newbies and for the natives. There’ll be a massive drain on local amenities, don’t think the DP centre will have its own doctor or dentist either.

    Will any of that matter? Probably not while there’s money to be made but I’d be surprised if this one actually goes through. Even one of those “anti-racism” groups thought it was a terrible location for a centre of that size.

    The racism card that gets “played” against anyone who objects to these things plays right into the hands of those making the money off them.

    The tide is turning…



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    #43
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users Posts: 6,208 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    The amount of fake 'teenage' boys being placed in classrooms of actual 13/14 yr old boys n girls in the uk is cause for alarm too, grown men in with kids , pretending to be kids,and people so afraid of the racist card are so reluctant to challenge it.


    Frightening.


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    #44
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭victor8600


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    It’s a terrible system...
    You’d have to wonder why we don’t have a “system” that takes 6 months to process and allows for appeal after appeal after appeal...

    Exactly. If the system was reasonable, a potential refugee would have been accessed in few weeks and either sent back or given the status allowing him or her to work and to integrate into the society. Then there would be no need to have "centres" where people live with little rights for years.


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    #45
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    What saddens me the most about things like this is that everything becomes so emotive and polarised right from the beginning.

    You're either a racist or a bleeding heart hard-leftie, depending on what you say and there's no space for any nuance or attempt to find some common ground. The voices start shouting from both sides of the debate and everyone in the middle feels brow beaten and just lets them to it. The rhetoric in here is already fairly hot and I'm surprised to see it coming from some posters who usually, I would think, pride themselves on their objectivity and critical thinking.

    I'm from about ten miles down the road from Oughterard, I'd know the town quite well. There's loads about the whole issue that I'd have numerous concerns about, but there is also a lot of scaremongering and hysteria going on, when, right now, what's actually known for certain is limited enough.


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    #46
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Doblin wrote: »
    The people from oughterard who are complaining about getting a direct provision center are coming across very bad, Their excuses on prime time last night were very incoherent. I can understand people in remote parts of Donegal because that's the middle of nowhere but oughterard is like 20 minutes from Galway city, there are lots of busses during the day to to the city. What's their problem like?

    Population of the village is 1300 people, so adding 200 to that is a big deal. Apparently only 1 Dr in the village and full schools as it is


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    #47
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    topper75 wrote: »
    Depends who's answering. Agendas fly around this thing like bullets. The only winners ultimately from my view are the FG pals who get the contracts for their failed hostelry and the FG who have an eye on higher profile jobs outside of Ireland.



    Yeah what is it with South Dublin posh areas not looking outside their own? We need to to introduce Blaithnead to some nice Afghani lad and Fiachra would have lovely kids with that Mali lass. Let's not have Foxrock cut off from the world.

    Well, let’s listen to a variety of views then. Ask people from these towns how it has affected them or if it has at all.


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    #48
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    the dark phantom wrote: »
    Ireland is the perfect place for thousands of immigrants, The ignorance of most of its natives needs to be breed out anyway, An empty island that could provide sustenance for millions more people.

    Define sustenance. Do the migrants feed off rushes or gorse flowers? More transfers from workers to non-workers perhaps? Not even Karl Marx proposed that kind of madness.

    Why is Ireland perfect? Do we have a shortage of personnel to clean windscreens at traffic lights? Is there a gap in the cheap sunglasses market on O'Connell bridge?

    What ignorance needs to bred out? What way does interbreeding with others from far away who bring nothing with them enlighten us? Stage is yours if you care to respond...


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    #49
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Arghus wrote: »
    What saddens me the most about things like this is that everything becomes so emotive and polarised right from the beginning.

    You're either a racist or a bleeding heart hard-leftie, depending on what you say and there's no space for any nuance or attempt to find some common ground. The voices start shouting from both sides of the debate and everyone in the middle feels brow beaten and just lets them to it. The rhetoric in here is already fairly hot and I'm surprised to see it coming from some posters who usually, I would think, pride themselves on their objectivity and critical thinking.

    I'm from about ten miles down the road from Oughterard, I'd know the town quite well. There's loads about the whole issue that I'd have numerous concerns about, but there is also a lot of scaremongering and hysteria going on, when, right now, what's actually known for certain is limited enough.

    +1

    It’s hard to have any kind of measured discussion on the topic.

    The subject is something I’m interested in as somebody who grew up in an unusually diverse Irish town. But how it’s discussed is absolutely headwrecking and unenlightening.


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    #50
    waffleman
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭waffleman


    Direct provision is a cash cow for the companies that provide it. If the government dont wise up on this more hotels will be burnt like the towns of Rooskey and Moville. Local residents are being completely ignored.


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    #51
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    The 'refugees' in Ballaghaderreen were complaining a couple of years ago about how it was like they were being punished because they had nothing to do and their food was bland. These people supposedly fled a horrific war zone where they feared for their lives and their idea of being punished is being slightly bored and a lack of gourmet food. Fucking chancers.


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    #52
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Wibbs wrote: »
    The other thread hereabouts about TV intros had one on 70's documentary The World at War about the second world war. I had an oul look again at a couple of episodes that evening and one on the fall of France after Germany invaded mentioned the terrible state of the long lines of civillian refugees fleeing the conflict. And you know what stands out, and stands out with any such genuine refugee flood? the vast majority of refugees were women and children and old people. Vanishingly few young men. Compare and contrast with the current so called chancers "refugee crisis". The ratio is completely reversed. Nearly all young men. Hmmmm. Or as I like to call it; utter bollocks.

    Families, women and kids, the elderly? No problem with those folks coming here as genuine refugees from actual warzones. Young men coming across the Mediterranean in their hundreds of thousands? Bugger off, go home.

    I don't know Wibbs, the days of young men being forced to die for dictators are finally behind us and I'm glad it's that way. For sure there are chancers but let the asylum system do its job and if it's not working reform it till it does work.. not condemn people just because they are young and male


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    #53
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    The 'refugees' in Ballaghaderreen were complaining a couple of years ago about how it was like they were being punished because they had nothing to do and their food was bland. These people supposedly fled a horrific war zone where they feared for their lives and their idea of being punished is being slightly bored and a lack of gourmet food. Fucking chancers.
    Have you ever had to work with people in provision? If you did you wouldn't be so quick to exaggerate. Everyone is grateful but it's not human nature to be able to tolerate such conditions for long periods, if it was prison wouldn't be prison at all would it?


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    #54
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I don't know Wibbs, the days of young men being forced to die for dictators are finally behind us and I'm glad it's that way. For sure there are chancers but let the asylum system do its job and if it's not working reform it till it does work.. not condemn people just because they are young and male

    Does that happen in this country ever?


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    #55
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    Does that happen in this country ever?

    Well it needs to be fixed at the European level first anyway


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    #56
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    the dark phantom wrote: »
    Ireland is the perfect place for thousands of immigrants, The ignorance of most of its natives needs to be breed out anyway, An empty island that could provide sustenance for millions more people.

    Well if you think "emptiness" is the only requirement to sustain a population then Africa is far more empty than Ireland.

    You obviously haven't considered ALL the rest.... Ireland is drowning in economic debt, €42,000 for every man, woman and child here on the national debt.
    We have zero obligation to take all the chancers from Africa.

    Certainly not give them a permanent constitutional right to stay here for life, regardless of if they work, commit crimes etc....
    I'd certainly vote for a political party that promotes a conditional stay for these people, say a 5 year visa, dependent on them trying to get a job, no criminal crimes racked up etc.... Just like all other modern countries like USA and Australia do.


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    #57
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Send them to Waterford City. Their council declared it a sanctuary for asylum seekers and its full of strike-happy, left-wing dopes.


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    #58
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    I don't see why Ireland is obligated to take refugees , we didn't invade any of their countries or bomb them. Thanks to England and USA with their war on terror and their bombing of Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Yemen is what's caused all this crap. They should be taking them not us . Putting 200 people into a town of 1300 isnt the smartest idea anyway. They locals would be in a minority in 20 years time as they immigrants would all have 4 or 5 kids each aswell


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    #59
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,364 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I pity the local school who will have to deal with all the kids' issues on the day the centre opens


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    #60
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    The 'refugees' in Ballaghaderreen were complaining a couple of years ago about how it was like they were being punished because they had nothing to do and their food was bland. These people supposedly fled a horrific war zone where they feared for their lives and their idea of being punished is being slightly bored and a lack of gourmet food. Fucking chancers.
    Have you ever had to work with people in provision? If you did you wouldn't be so quick to exaggerate. Everyone is grateful but it's not human nature to be able to tolerate such conditions for long periods, if it was prison wouldn't be prison at all would it?

    What conditions? They are escaping a warzone


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    #61
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Do a free bar once a month in the hotel. Complaints should ease off.


This discussion has been closed.
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