Would you buy beside social housing?

Graces7

Bluefoam wrote: »

We are a country with free education... all the way through secondary, (apparently free through third level), free housing for those in need, allowances for all children in the state to get what they need, free medical, librarys etc. Anyone bringing up anti social child in Ireland is either incapable, or doing it on purpose... No one is subjegating these children but their own parents. We as a society pay for them... We are willing. We are giving. We are generous. But when you share so much only to have it thrown in your face... well, thats not acceptable.

I don't have a problem with the principal of social housing, I do however have a problem with abuse of social housing...

Remember, social housing derives from the socialist ideal, whereby everyone gioves and everyone takes... That is not how the system is working.

This post is a total non sequitur to the post you say you are replying to. Try again maybe?

anewme

Fr. Pat Noise wrote: »

InTheShadows wrote: »

You know what I'll be banned for this and I could care less tbh. I reported your post earlier and it was ignored which came as a shock to me, not.

If you had said that about let's say black people or Muslims etc...you'd have been rightfully banned within the hour but it seems people of your ilk can get away with branding social housing tenents with the same brush and it's just ignored on this site.

I take particular exception to your callous use of language about children from social housing as I have raised two wonderful kids in social housing one who has gone on to excel in school and is now in her forth year of a degree in food science and the other consistently gets fantastic grades in school. Seriously how fu ck ing dare you and internet hardmen\women of your type stereotype my kids and bundle them in with scumbags who act like you have described.

It's not just you either as there seems to be numerous posts from individuals who are only to happy to look down their self entitled noses at those in social housing as some form of cancer on the nation. Gobsh ites

I’m not saying all kids from council estates will become criminals. In fairness a good proportion of them will become tradesmen, bus drivers etc. and these jobs are very important to our economy at the moment.

Not sure if you are taking the p with that comment to be honest.?

Graces7

anewme wrote: »

Not sure if you are taking the p with that comment to be honest.?

sadly I think he is being serious. Upper class type... ie where you live decides what you are going to be...

sbsquarepants

AulWan wrote: »

This is a big part of the problem right here. This attitude.

When faced with this attitude, what hope have these kids got of breaking the cycle of welfare dependancy? If they are already looked down upon and discounted of being capable of achieving anything before they reach the age of 12?

This is also the attitude which makes it so much harder for kids from tough areas to achieve anything. The same attitude of the employers who look at a CV from a kid from Darndale, or Jobstown, or Moyross, or Mayfield, and toss it aside in favour of the CV of the kid from "better" areas.

I find pre-judging children in such a way truly disgusting.

Get down off that high horse, you'll fall and hurt yourself!

It's only the ones who actually are little cúnts that get judged that way. The nice ones get judged differently, go figure.

I grew up about a mile from Jobstown (in an equally beautiful suburb:D) - i know plenty of people from there. Some are perfectly fine, decent people - some are scum. This is just a fact of life.

There's a large amount of genetics at play i reckon - scummy parents tend to rear scummy kids. There are exceptions of course (in both directions) but they are just that, exceptions. The rule holds whether you like it or not.

suicide_circus

Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »

people are commuting hours to work, past areas where people are turning over for their second sleep in preparation of a whole day of sitting in their mas in their dressing gown

this part in particular. how can anyone who espouses social justice defend this?

Working class heroes

Fr. Pat Noise wrote: »

My post was just an observation on what I have witnessed recently. I live beside a relatively new council estate and there are also a few HAP tenants living in my estate too. From my observation there seems to be a lot of kids from these houses hanging around lately at all hours doing stuff like vandalising cars and dumping rubbish. Their parents don’t seem to care and I often see the mothers in their pyjamas at the front of their houses during the day and evening. The father’s uniform of choice is usually a tracksuit bottoms and football jersey. In general they wear an english premier league jersey or a Dublin jersey. I’m not saying all kids from council estates will become criminals. In fairness a good proportion of them will become tradesmen, bus drivers etc. and these jobs are very important to our economy at the moment.

You must be doing fock all yourself if you are able to observe these people day and night.

Bluefoam

Graces7 wrote: »

This post is a total non sequitur to the post you say you are replying to. Try again maybe?

what hope have these kids got of breaking the cycle of welfare dependancy? If they are already looked down upon and discounted of being capable of achieving anything before they reach the age of 12?

These kids are given plenty of oportunity... by their community. They are not discounted by society buy are disadvantaged by their parents... I thought this was obvious from my previous post... consider it sequitur!

mariaalice

Nearly finished reading, The Age of Anger: A History of the Present, by Pankaj Mishra. Its a great explanation of the routes of the rage and resentment against other groups.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

mariaalice wrote: »

Nearly finished reading, The Age of Anger: A History of the Present, by Pankaj Mishra. Its a great explanation of the routes of the rage and resentment against other groups.

Is there a chapter on living your life sucking of the teat of others?

suicide_circus

Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »

Is there a chapter on living your life sucking of the teat of others?

bitty

mariaalice

Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »

Is there a chapter on living your life sucking of the teat of others?

No, it's more a global explanation of why those who are struggling and looked out of the supposed rewards of a free market economy and no longer have the security blanket of strong community and family ties as a refuge, turn to rage and resentment of other groups as an explanation.

Graces7

Bluefoam wrote: »

These kids are given plenty of oportunity... by their community. They are not discounted by society buy are disadvantaged by their parents... I thought this was obvious from my previous post... consider it sequitur!

Please explain? Given the way you assess them already? Non sequitur as you have evaded the real issue.

What are you as " society" actually doing for them? In real terms?

ELM327

Graces7 wrote: »

Please explain? Given the way you assess them already? Non sequitur as you have evaded the real issue.

What are you as " society" actually doing for them? In real terms?

Free education, free childrens allowance money, free money added to parents social welfare, additional rent allowance/hap, free gp care for under 6,


ad nauseum/ad infinitum (see I can throw in anglicized latin phrases too)


All of the above funded by the taxpayer (because their parents damn sure arent)


And the parents take the supports and rather buy 20 johnnie blue and cases of dutch gold instead of a €14 textbook for the child.

stratowide

Well you can discuss the rights and wrongs of this till the cows come home.
Society's responsibility etc. Or whatever.

But I would not take the chance buying a house in any estate.private or social housed.
The chances of getting low life scumbags moved in beside you are admittedly small but the chance is there all the same.

It's not one I would take.

I bought rurally for this very reason.
Thus lessening the risk.

It only takes one low life family to ruin a housing estate.

As I said social responsibility comes second place.

Raconteuse

Graces7 wrote: »

sadly I think he is being serious. Upper class type...

This is Ireland - virtually nobody is upper class. The vast majority are working class or middle-class or a combination.

mariaalice wrote: »

Nearly finished reading, The Age of Anger: A History of the Present, by Pankaj Mishra. Its a great explanation of the routes of the rage and resentment against other groups.

That's not relevant here. The anger is about behaviour - not membership of e.g. a caste.

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

What are you as " society" actually doing for them? In real terms?

At a guess I'd say the exact same as he's doing for my kids.

Do you think he should be doing more for some reason?

mariaalice

Raconteuse wrote: »

This is Ireland - virtually nobody is upper class. The vast majority are working class or middle-class or a combination.

That's not relevant here. The anger is about behavior - not membership of e.g. a caste.

But it is, its a constant loop on boards, of welfare recipients, mostly lone parents though not exclusively, travelers etc, grouping them all together.

According to various op's it the reason they are paying so much tax, the reason they have such a long commute etc.

Deebles McBeebles

Raconteuse wrote: »

This is Ireland - virtually nobody is upper class. The vast majority are working class or middle-class or a combination.

That's not relevant here. The anger is about behaviour - not membership of e.g. a caste.

A lot of people, prety much fom page 1 actually, seem to think all social tenants are included in anything negative that has been said. They are not. I'm not sure how many more times that needs to be said.

mariaalice

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

A lot of people, prety much fom page 1 actually, seem to think all social tenants are included in anything negative that has been said. They are not. I'm not sure how many more times that needs to be said.

But that is not the image that is being shaped by this and a million other varient on a team. Did you see the downright vile and nasty retort to a poster who said they had grown up in social housing as had his girlfriend and they both has degrees.

AulWan

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Get down off that high horse, you'll fall and hurt yourself!

It's only the ones who actually are little cúnts that get judged that way. The nice ones get judged differently, go figure.

I grew up about a mile from Jobstown (in an equally beautiful suburb:D) - i know plenty of people from there. Some are perfectly fine, decent people - some are scum. This is just a fact of life.

There's a large amount of genetics at play i reckon - scummy parents tend to rear scummy kids. There are exceptions of course (in both directions) but they are just that, exceptions. The rule holds whether you like it or not.

We might have been neighbours then! Because i grew up not too far from Jobstown too, but unlike you I would never write off any child (I believe the figure you gave was 50%?) - scummy parents or not - as a lost cause before they even finish primary in the way you did.

My mother had a saying, never look down on someone, unless it's to offer them a hand up.

Bluefoam

Graces7 wrote: »

Please explain? Given the way you assess them already? Non sequitur as you have evaded the real issue.

What are you as " society" actually doing for them? In real terms?

Providing a roof over their heads, hot running water, electricity, money, education, libraries, playgrounds, social services, councelling, health services, drug programs, policing, defense, even ****ing holidays!!!!

What do you not understand about this?

Bluefoam

ELM327 wrote: »

Free education, free childrens allowance money, free money added to parents social welfare, additional rent allowance/hap, free gp care for under 6,


ad nauseum/ad infinitum (see I can throw in anglicized latin phrases too)


All of the above funded by the taxpayer (because their parents damn sure arent)


And the parents take the supports and rather buy 20 johnnie blue and cases of dutch gold instead of a €14 textbook for the child.

Hadn't seen your response... you managed to respond in a more elequent manner...

Deebles McBeebles

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is not the image that is being shaped by this and a million other varient on a team. Did you see the downright vile and nasty retort to a poster who said they had grown up in social housing as had his girlfriend and they both has degrees.

Yes, I was part of it. Not because he grew up in social housing but because he felt the need to tell everyone about his "top rate tax job" and his degrees.

Anyone who puts everyone living in social housing in the same boat is an idiot and should be ignored as they have likely never seen a social housing estate. For those of us who have, its almost always one or two familes who ruin an entire estate and likely do it across multiple generations. Those are the people I have an issue with.

Marhay70

In my experience most of the problems with social housing tenants can be placed squarely at the door of the local authorities and their reluctance to follow up on their supposed "zero tolerance" of anti social behaviour.
I live in Wexford and the estate I live in has a sprinkling of local authoritiy tenants, both in houses the Council have bought and under RAS or HAP tenancies. For the most part these people are fine but there is an element among them, mostly among those on RAS or HAP tenancies who can only be classified as pond life and what surprises me is that all of these people are from Dublin.
In a county that has a waiting list of over 2000, it strikes me as strange that the Local Authority would be offering accommodation to people from outside the county and it surprises me even more that much vaunted vetting process would appear to be non existent. Two of these tenants are known drug dealers and one is a convicted armed robber who has been rehoused in our estate after being forced out of his last house by similar scum as himself.
Before anyone accuses me of being anti Dub, I was born and raised in Ballybough and spent thirty five years living, first in Crumlin and then in Tallaght, all of that time in Local Authority housing, so I don't have an axe to grind with Dubs.

Raconteuse

mariaalice wrote: »

But that is not the image that is being shaped by this and a million other varient on a team. Did you see the downright vile and nasty retort to a poster who said they had grown up in social housing as had his girlfriend and they both has degrees.

What vile and nasty retort? That guy was in full attack dog mode, accusing people of all sorts when they hadn't posted anything.

Raconteuse

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

A lot of people, prety much fom page 1 actually, seem to think all social tenants are included in anything negative that has been said. They are not. I'm not sure how many more times that needs to be said.

They just want to believe otherwise.

Anyone who condemns all single mothers, all people who live in local authority housing, all in receipt of welfare... is a horrible idiot. I wouldn't like to live in a society where there are no social supports, because there are people who need them. I may need them myself before I become a pensioner - you never know what could happen.

Unfortunately these supports are exploited by certain people though - whether it's taking all they can get without a shred in return, or dreadful anti social behaviour where they have been housed, making life hell for their neighbours.

But it's being reduced to "you are snobs who look down on poor people" just because some are unwilling to admit the above. It's tiresome.

mariaalice

Raconteuse wrote: »

They just want to believe otherwise.

Anyone who condemns all single mothers, all people who live in local authority housing, all in receipt of welfare... is a horrible idiot. I wouldn't like to live in a society where there are no social supports, because there are people who need them. I may need them myself before I become a pensioner - you never know what could happen.

Unfortunately these supports are exploited by certain people though - whether it's taking all they can get without a shred in return, or dreadful anti social behaviour where they have been housed, making life hell for their neighbours.

But it's being reduced to "you are snobs who look down on poor people" just because some are unwilling to admit the above. It's tiresome.

The are problems with welfare or the behavior of a small number of people, but it is not the massive issue it is being made out to be. There are more serious issue to be concerned about in Ireland at the moment.

pgj2015

Bluefoam wrote: »

Providing a roof over their heads, hot running water, electricity, money, education, libraries, playgrounds, social services, councelling, health services, drug programs, policing, defense, even ****ing holidays!!!!

What do you not understand about this?

free driving lessons, free cinema passes, money for food for pets etc

sbsquarepants

AulWan wrote: »

We might have been neighbours then! Because i grew up not too far from Jobstown too, but unlike you I would never write off any child (I believe the figure you gave was 50%?) - scummy parents or not - as a lost cause before they even finish primary in the way you did.

My mother had a saying, never look down on someone, unless it's to offer them a hand up.

I said you could tell with 50% accuracy in primary school, maybe 90% in secondary, not that 50% of people were wastes of space.

Some people are just no good, no amount of hand ups, hand outs or hand wringing is going to change that.

suicide_circus

Graces7 wrote: »

What are you as " society" actually doing for them? In real terms?

literally everything short of wiping their bums