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Would you buy beside social housing?
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Fr. Pat Noise wrote: »Social housing or hap tenants = Gangs of children and teenagers wearing cheap black padded jackets, grey track suits and nike runners hanging around breaking stuff, dumping rubbish and intimidating residents while their uncaring parents watch sky on their big flat screen while wearing their pyjamas or English football jersey /tracksuit combo!
You know what I'll be banned for this and I could care less tbh. I reported your post earlier and it was ignored which came as a shock to me, not.
If you had said that about let's say black people or Muslims etc...you'd have been rightfully banned within the hour but it seems people of your ilk can get away with branding social housing tenents with the same brush and it's just ignored on this site.
I take particular exception to your callous use of language about children from social housing as I have raised two wonderful kids in social housing one who has gone on to excel in school and is now in her forth year of a degree in food science and the other consistently gets fantastic grades in school. Seriously how fu ck ing dare you and internet hardmen\women of your type stereotype my kids and bundle them in with scumbags who act like you have described.
It's not just you either as there seems to be numerous posts from individuals who are only to happy to look down their self entitled noses at those in social housing as some form of cancer on the nation. Gobsh ites0 -
Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »Obviously the housing market would be totally different if people who say they’d live beside social housing did. The private housing in these areas is cheaper for a reason - demand is lower. Demand is lower because people don’t want to live there. Since the rich can live where they want but the poor live where they must, this means the rich choose to avoid these areas. In fact the real rich live away from the middle classes.
There’s a pathological need for rich people to live expensively in my view, and in high status areas , but it’s fairly sane to not want to live in potentially dangerous areas.
I can safely say there are rougher areas of Dublin I’d buy in. Happily. My sister rents a house in one and I sigh longingly when I see a For Sale sign going up on a house near her. She lives a short walk from town, many bus routes and a good selection of shops and cafés. The housing stock is cosmetically a bit unloved but has so much potential. But it’s a rough area and no mistaking it. I’d buy there in a second. Many would turn their nose up.
I lived right by Mountjoy for five years. There were some issues with anti-social behaviour but I loved it there. I loved my street and the houses on it. There was a real mix of people.
Many people will ignore all these positives because they want the ritzier address. Address snobbery is very real. A cousin of mine shoehorned Killiney into his address despite not living in Killiney. Another says he lives in Walkinstown even though his house backs onto Crumlin Hospital.0 -
Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »You didn’t buy in a mixed estate. Why?
Maybe they weren’t in existence in her area when she bought?0 -
Nobody will look down you or your children, if you read most of the posts you will see the issue is with those who don't engage with education, don't raise well rounded children who respect others around them, and have no intention of working.InTheShadows wrote: »You know what I'll be banned for this and I could care less tbh. I reported your post earlier and it was ignored which came as a shock to me, not.
If you had said that about let's say black people or Muslims etc...you'd have been rightfully banned within the hour but it seems people of your ilk can get away with branding social housing tenents with the same brush and it's just ignored on this site.
I take particular exception to your callous use of language about children from social housing as I have raised two wonderful kids in social housing one who has gone on to excel in school and is now in her forth year of a degree in food science and the other consistently gets fantastic grades in school. Seriously how fu ck ing dare you and internet hardmen\women of your type stereotype my kids and bundle them in with scumbags who act like you have described.
It's not just you either as there seems to be numerous posts from individuals who are only to happy to look down their self entitled noses at those in social housing as some form of cancer on the nation. Gobsh ites
Of course the majority of those living in social housing will be the same as you and your family. It's the minority who ruin it for everyone, and no one wants to be neighbours with one of the minority.0 -
Leg End Reject wrote: »A lot of references to working class, but the issue most would have with social housing isn't lower income workers, it's the won't work brigade. Generational life-long unemployment, children not encouraged to engage with education, no discipline so children are practically feral, no pride in their community etc.
If you're buying your own home it's understandable that you will choose the best kept area and nicest neighbours you can afford. Nobody wants to pay a mortgage for 25-30 years on something they could only sell at a reduced price.
It's reverse snobbery or head up the arse thinking to think otherwise.
There’ll always be separate housing for the super rich. But if outside of that, if we aimed for mixed developments across the board, it could have the effect of alleviating some of the social issues and not affecting house prices because everywhere would be the same. The values would just return to the usual market fluctuations.
I guess I’m just interested in why people refuse to even consider whether there could be medium-to-long term benefits to this idea. It could alleviate some of the problems ghettoisation can bring. I can’t believe “cordon them off in one area” seems to still appear a good idea to some.0 -
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I wouldn’t buy a house next to two council tenants, not my vibe0
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Leg End Reject wrote: »Nobody will look down you or your children, if you read most of the posts you will see the issue is with those who don't engage with education, don't raise well rounded children who respect others around them, and have no intention of working.
Of course the majority of those living in social housing will be the same as you and your family. It's the minority who ruin it for everyone, and no one wants to be neighbours with one of the minority.
I disagree that no one will look down on them. A big part of the disadvantage of coming from certain areas comes from the fact that others pre-judge and slap labels on those areas and the people who live there based on the actions of the minority, and then don't bother to look beyond that.
If it were different, there wouldn't be these threads every week, or any need to constantly defend the majority.
The fact is, the prejudices against social tenants and social welfare recipients are alive and well and they are certainly thriving on this forum.0 -
Again. Every class is Ireland is prejudiced towards classes below them and choose to not live close to them. There the literal explanation of much of the housing market. This is why south city Dublin has to north city a premium even controlling for housing types or public transport or distance from the city.
However while the rich avoiding the middle classes is pathological status seeking, the middle income groups avoiding social welfare dominated estates makes some rational sense even if most council house tenants are fine, which they are, provided there’s a higher statistical chance of anti social behaviour.0 -
listermint wrote: »Grew up in social housing.
Am I a bad person?
Must be my degree and my wife's degree and our top rate tax jobs that make us bad.
Oh she grew up in social housing too. We own our own place now as do our parents. It was a great step start for everyone's life's.
Why do you hate people? Are you better than us ? Go on answer it be honest.
Elessar probably doesn't think she's better than you. But you probably think most are better than you.0 -
waynerooney wrote: »Elessar probably doesn't think she's better than you. But you probably think most are better than you.
Yep, that post smacked of an inferior complex masquerading as self esteem.0 -
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Wanderer78 wrote: »some astonishingly ignorant posts on this site regarding complex social issues
Complex social issues my arse.
I grew up in a shíthole council estate, you could tell with maybe 50% accuracy in primary school which kids were jail bound, which would be junkies and which would do ok for themselves. By the middle of secondary it would be more like 80 - 90% accuracy.
Some people are just fúcking wasters, it's as simple as that. It's all they can be.0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Wanderer78 wrote: »some astonishingly ignorant posts on this site regarding complex social issues
Complex social issues my arse.
I grew up in a shíthole council estate, you could tell with maybe 50% accuracy in primary school which kids were jail bound, which would be junkies and which would do ok for themselves. By the middle of secondary it would be more like 80 - 90% accuracy.
Some people are just fúcking wasters, it's as simple as that. It's all they can be.
My mother in law is a SNA in a "severely disadvantaged" area of one of the cities, she often says how some of the kids are brutes from the very start.
Nature trumps nurture0 -
My father grew up in council housing, as did the majority of my uncles and aunts on my mam's side.
They all came from good, decent and hardworking parents; and their kids all bought privately when they grew up and married (as have their own kids!).
What I'm getting at is that there didn't used to be this 'lifestyle' and tradition of generation after generation remaining in social housing. People usually did what they could to better their circumstances where possible.
Not sure why that's changed so much.0 -
Lollipops23 wrote: »My father grew up in council housing, as did the majority of my uncles and aunts on my mam's side.
They all came from good, decent and hardworking parents; and their kids all bought privately when they grew up and married (as have their own kids!).
What I'm getting at is that there didn't used to be this 'lifestyle' and tradition of generation after generation remaining in social housing. People usually did what they could to better their circumstances where possible.
Not sure why that's changed so much.
The was no stigma to council housing in the past, do the tour of the Henerria st museum it's very interesting.0 -
mariaalice wrote: »Lollipops23 wrote: »My father grew up in council housing, as did the majority of my uncles and aunts on my mam's side.
They all came from good, decent and hardworking parents; and their kids all bought privately when they grew up and married (as have their own kids!).
What I'm getting at is that there didn't used to be this 'lifestyle' and tradition of generation after generation remaining in social housing. People usually did what they could to better their circumstances where possible.
Not sure why that's changed so much.
The was no stigma to council housing in the past, do the tour of the Henerria st museum it's very interesting.
There is no stigma to being on welfare for life today, not amongst opinion makers, there is also no stigma surrounding single parent families, lack of father figures is one of the key factors in the increased level of delinquency culture0 -
There is no stigma to being on welfare for life today, not amongst opinion makers, there is also no stigma surrounding single parent families, lack of father figures is one of the key factors in the increased level of delinquency culture
Yeah if you nip into the supermarket on lunchbreak and see a welfare lifer waddling around in their dressing gown and stare that bit too long, YOU are the one who is wrong because you are being judgmental. The worst of crimes nowadays.0 -
mariaalice wrote: »The was no stigma to council housing in the past, do the tour of the Henerria st museum it's very interesting.
There was no stigma because it was working class families who had jobs but needed a little bit of assistance. They sent their kids to school, knew the way out of a poverty trap was a good education, and knew the worth of anything they had because they worked for it. Make no mistake people who never worked a day in their lives were stigmatized in the past.
Now, we have the self entitled, can have as many kids as they want and has everyone else paying for them, “entitled” to a house because they’ve blessed society with their feral offspring, no rearing on them, no emphasis placed on education because they see nothing wrong with how they live. We have deis schools now because despite our very generous social welfare, there are still little children being sent to school with empty bellies. Facebook is awash with people begging others to tell them where they can find a house for them and their little angles, and it must accept HAP and have 3 or 4 bedrooms, they’ve been looking for weeks and can’t find anything and they’d do anything to find somewhere, anything but get a job it seems.
Of course it’s societies fault, it’s a disgrace kids are hungry, it’s a disgrace these people are expected to pay water charges. Where were the marches when the USC was brought in, or when the property tax was brought in? There were no protests because the people affected were too busy working to keep a roof over their head and food on the table, two things that seem an alien concept to people now.
Parents receive payments for each child per week, subsidized childcare when working parents have the full price of crèche to pay unless their child qualifies for the ecce scheme, a child benefit (which some people want means tested but surely all children are equal and it’s the only payment people who contribute to society receive) of 140 per child, as well as a back to education allowance. There is no reason for any child to be hungry in this day and age and if their own parents can’t keep three meals a day on the table for their children, the government is not to blame.
The blatant disregard and thoughtlessness of the self entitled have now landed us in a crisis by where people are commuting hours to work, past areas where people are turning over for their second sleep in preparation of a whole day of sitting in their mas in their dressing gown, and people who are in genuine need of social housing and assistance are not able to access it.
Disgusting really.0 -
Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »There was no stigma because it was working class families who had jobs but needed a little bit of assistance. They sent their kids to school, knew the way out of a poverty trap was a good education, and knew the worth of anything they had because they worked for it. Make no mistake people who never worked a day in their lives were stigmatized in the past.
Now, we have the self entitled, can have as many kids as they want and has everyone else paying for them, “entitled” to a house because they’ve blessed society with their feral offspring, no rearing on them, no emphasis placed on education because they see nothing wrong with how they live. We have deis schools now because despite our very generous social welfare, there are still little children being sent to school with empty bellies. Facebook is awash with people begging others to tell them where they can find a house for them and their little angles, and it must accept HAP and have 3 or 4 bedrooms, they’ve been looking for weeks and can’t find anything and they’d do anything to find somewhere, anything but get a job it seems.
Of course it’s societies fault, it’s a disgrace kids are hungry, it’s a disgrace these people are expected to pay water charges. Where were the marches when the USC was brought in, or when the property tax was brought in? There were no protests because the people affected were too busy working to keep a roof over their head and food on the table, two things that seem an alien concept to people now.
Parents receive payments for each child per week, subsidized childcare when working parents have the full price of crèche to pay unless their child qualifies for the ecce scheme, a child benefit (which some people want means tested but surely all children are equal and it’s the only payment people who contribute to society receive) of 140 per child, as well as a back to education allowance. There is no reason for any child to be hungry in this day and age and if their own parents can’t keep three meals a day on the table for their children, the government is not to blame.
The blatant disregard and thoughtlessness of the self entitled have now landed us in a crisis by where people are commuting hours to work, past areas where people are turning over for their second sleep in preparation of a whole day of sitting in their mas in their dressing gown, and people who are in genuine need of social housing and assistance are not able to access it.
Disgusting really.
A - f**cking-men brother.
Class, can't agree any more or put it any better myself.0 -
There is no stigma to being on welfare for life today, not amongst opinion makers, there is also no stigma surrounding single parent families, lack of father figures is one of the key factors in the increased level of delinquency culture
Yeah if you nip into the supermarket on lunchbreak and see a welfare lifer waddling around in their dressing gown and stare that bit too long, YOU are the one who is wrong because you are being judgmental. The worst of crimes nowadays.
A little bit of shame is a good thing0 -
mariaalice wrote: »The was no stigma to council housing in the past, do the tour of the Henerria st museum it's very interesting.
I would disagree, my mother often tells me she wasnt allowed associate with school mates who were from council estates when she was younger, her brother was encouraged not to see a woman who was from a council estate so he ended it.0 -
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Adding quietly that many schools for many years fed children at breakfast clubs. Supermarkets help
Dcerna\at\rs \hccooldCecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »There was no stigma because it was working class families who had jobs but needed a little bit of assistance. They sent their kids to school, knew the way out of a poverty trap was a good education, and knew the worth of anything they had because they worked for it. Make no mistake people who never worked a day in their lives were stigmatized in the past.
Now, we have the self entitled, can have as many kids as they want and has everyone else paying for them, “entitled” to a house because they’ve blessed society with their feral offspring, no rearing on them, no emphasis placed on education because they see nothing wrong with how they live. We have deis schools now because despite our very generous social welfare, there are still little children being sent to school with empty bellies. Facebook is awash with people begging others to tell them where they can find a house for them and their little angles, and it must accept HAP and have 3 or 4 bedrooms, they’ve been looking for weeks and can’t find anything and they’d do anything to find somewhere, anything but get a job it seems.
Of course it’s societies fault, it’s a disgrace kids are hungry, it’s a disgrace these people are expected to pay water charges. Where were the marches when the USC was brought in, or when the property tax was brought in? There were no protests because the people affected were too busy working to keep a roof over their head and food on the table, two things that seem an alien concept to people now.
Parents receive payments for each child per week, subsidized childcare when working parents have the full price of crèche to pay unless their child qualifies for the ecce scheme, a child benefit (which some people want means tested but surely all children are equal and it’s the only payment people who contribute to society receive) of 140 per child, as well as a back to education allowance. There is no reason for any child to be hungry in this day and age and if their own parents can’t keep three meals a day on the table for their children, the government is not to blame.
The blatant disregard and thoughtlessness of the self entitled have now landed us in a crisis by where people are commuting hours to work, past areas where people are turning over for their second sleep in preparation of a whole day of sitting in their mas in their dressing gown, and people who are in genuine need of social housing and assistance are not able to access it.
Disgusting really.0 -
Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »We have deis schools now because despite our very generous social welfare, there are still little children being sent to school with empty bellies.
A good mate of mine is a teacher in a DEIS school in a very disadvantaged area. Some stories are heart breaking; one little lad didn't have his workbook bought (literally one book as he was in jr infants) until the new year- she brought it up with his father (who was chain smoking everytime she saw him) and he kept saying he'd get it at the weekend. When he inevitably rocked in on Monday with no book, he'd gleefully tell Teacher about his trip to McDonald's that weekend. The book cost €14 if memory serves.0 -
Lollipops23 wrote: »A good mate of mine is a teacher in a DEIS school in a very disadvantaged area. Some stories are heart breaking; one little lad didn't have his workbook bought (literally one book as he was in jr infants) until the new year- she brought it up with his father (who was chain smoking everytime she saw him) and he kept saying he'd get it at the weekend. When he inevitably rocked in on Monday with no book, he'd gleefully tell Teacher about his trip to McDonald's that weekend. The book cost €14 if memory serves.
He probably expected the state to "give the book for free, Joe"0 -
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that bitterness will slowly but surely eat away at you...let it go, life is short.Cecelia Refined Sewing wrote: »There was no stigma because it was working class families who had jobs but needed a little bit of assistance. They sent their kids to school, knew the way out of a poverty trap was a good education, and knew the worth of anything they had because they worked for it. Make no mistake people who never worked a day in their lives were stigmatized in the past.
Now, we have the self entitled, can have as many kids as they want and has everyone else paying for them, “entitled” to a house because they’ve blessed society with their feral offspring, no rearing on them, no emphasis placed on education because they see nothing wrong with how they live. We have deis schools now because despite our very generous social welfare, there are still little children being sent to school with empty bellies. Facebook is awash with people begging others to tell them where they can find a house for them and their little angles, and it must accept HAP and have 3 or 4 bedrooms, they’ve been looking for weeks and can’t find anything and they’d do anything to find somewhere, anything but get a job it seems.
Of course it’s societies fault, it’s a disgrace kids are hungry, it’s a disgrace these people are expected to pay water charges. Where were the marches when the USC was brought in, or when the property tax was brought in? There were no protests because the people affected were too busy working to keep a roof over their head and food on the table, two things that seem an alien concept to people now.
Parents receive payments for each child per week, subsidized childcare when working parents have the full price of crèche to pay unless their child qualifies for the ecce scheme, a child benefit (which some people want means tested but surely all children are equal and it’s the only payment people who contribute to society receive) of 140 per child, as well as a back to education allowance. There is no reason for any child to be hungry in this day and age and if their own parents can’t keep three meals a day on the table for their children, the government is not to blame.
The blatant disregard and thoughtlessness of the self entitled have now landed us in a crisis by where people are commuting hours to work, past areas where people are turning over for their second sleep in preparation of a whole day of sitting in their mas in their dressing gown, and people who are in genuine need of social housing and assistance are not able to access it.
Disgusting really.0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Complex social issues my arse.
I grew up in a shíthole council estate, you could tell with maybe 50% accuracy in primary school which kids were jail bound, which would be junkies and which would do ok for themselves. By the middle of secondary it would be more like 80 - 90% accuracy.
Some people are just fúcking wasters, it's as simple as that. It's all they can be.
This is a big part of the problem right here. This attitude.
When faced with this attitude, what hope have these kids got of breaking the cycle of welfare dependancy? If they are already looked down upon and discounted of being capable of achieving anything before they reach the age of 12?
This is also the attitude which makes it so much harder for kids from tough areas to achieve anything. The same attitude of the employers who look at a CV from a kid from Darndale, or Jobstown, or Moyross, or Mayfield, and toss it aside in favour of the CV of the kid from "better" areas.
I find pre-judging children in such a way truly disgusting.0 -
It depends really if they look rough or not.
If I knew the people it wouldn’t bother me0 -
This is a big part of the problem right here. This attitude.
When faced with this attitude, what hope have these kids got of breaking the cycle of welfare dependancy? If they are already looked down upon and discounted of being capable of achieving anything before they reach the age of 12?
This is also the attitude which makes it so much harder for kids from tough areas to achieve anything. The same attitude of the employers who look at a CV from a kid from Darndale, or Jobstown, or Moyross, or Mayfield, and toss it aside in favour of the CV of the kid from "better" areas.
I find pre-judging children in such a way truly disgusting.
We are a country with free education... all the way through secondary, (apparently free through third level), free housing for those in need, allowances for all children in the state to get what they need, free medical, librarys etc. Anyone bringing up anti social child in Ireland is either incapable, or doing it on purpose... No one is subjegating these children but their own parents. We as a society pay for them... We are willing. We are giving. We are generous. But when you share so much only to have it thrown in your face... well, thats not acceptable.
I don't have a problem with the principal of social housing, I do however have a problem with abuse of social housing...
Remember, social housing derives from the socialist ideal, whereby everyone gioves and everyone takes... That is not how the system is working.0 -
The ones in my estate who live in social housing, has no desire to integrate in social norms. They expect every one else to accept their social norms, which are fcucked up. And anyone who opposes that are subject to vandalism and intimidation. That's just the cold hard truth. Granted there are a few who are decent, but they are a rarity now.0
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InTheShadows wrote: »You know what I'll be banned for this and I could care less tbh. I reported your post earlier and it was ignored which came as a shock to me, not.
If you had said that about let's say black people or Muslims etc...you'd have been rightfully banned within the hour but it seems people of your ilk can get away with branding social housing tenents with the same brush and it's just ignored on this site.
I take particular exception to your callous use of language about children from social housing as I have raised two wonderful kids in social housing one who has gone on to excel in school and is now in her forth year of a degree in food science and the other consistently gets fantastic grades in school. Seriously how fu ck ing dare you and internet hardmen\women of your type stereotype my kids and bundle them in with scumbags who act like you have described.
It's not just you either as there seems to be numerous posts from individuals who are only to happy to look down their self entitled noses at those in social housing as some form of cancer on the nation. Gobsh ites
My post was just an observation on what I have witnessed recently. I live beside a relatively new council estate and there are also a few HAP tenants living in my estate too. From my observation there seems to be a lot of kids from these houses hanging around lately at all hours doing stuff like vandalising cars and dumping rubbish. Their parents don’t seem to care and I often see the mothers in their pyjamas at the front of their houses during the day and evening. The father’s uniform of choice is usually a tracksuit bottoms and football jersey. In general they wear an english premier league jersey or a Dublin jersey. I’m not saying all kids from council estates will become criminals. In fairness a good proportion of them will become tradesmen, bus drivers etc. and these jobs are very important to our economy at the moment.0
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