Machinery Photo/Discussion Thread II

bamayang

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I see. That is fine in theory but in practice how can you be sure that someone doesn't hitch up to it with a 50k tractor or a FastTrac and then go and get in an accident. It would have to be strictly controlled. The only way i could think of it being a safe system is for the trailer to have a different hitch type than the rest of the trailers and the 50k tractors on the farm so that only the sub 40k tractors can haul it. Even that is a system that can break down and will be troublesome in practice.

Even if it is perfectly legal and above board, there will always be a question mark above it if there is an accident. I would think it would be too much of a risk having a chop shop trailer on the fleet.

Safest bet is just not to have any of that type of thing and only have legitimately engineered and manufactured, plated trailers. At least then there is no question mark over their design or fitness for purpose should something happen.

Thats a strange comment. If its perfectly legal and above board, then thats all there is to it.
If somebody has an accident, something else has failed and should be investigated the same as if an accident happened with the €26K trailer quoted above.

While I dont believe it the case, your comment sounds as if it is coming from someone who sells trailers... non chop-shop type obviously.

maidhc

bamayang wrote: »

Thats a strange comment. If its perfectly legal and above board, then thats all there is to it.
If somebody has an accident, something else has failed and should be investigated the same as if an accident happened with the €26K trailer quoted above.

While I dont believe it the case, your comment sounds as if it is coming from someone who sells trailers... non chop-shop type obviously.

The is an old saying that "no one gets fired for buying IBM". Law in this regard isn't much different. If you have a trailer that is cobbled together from three different bedfords and something breaks it is easy to point the finger. If you bought the best available then you are in the clear.

In fairness trailers made from old trucks are bodges of yokes for the most part anyway. A truck chassis is very different by design to a trailer one.

emaherx

maidhc wrote: »

The is an old saying that "no one gets fired for buying IBM". Law in this regard isn't much different. If you have a trailer that is cobbled together from three different bedfords and something breaks it is easy to point the finger. If you bought the best available then you are in the clear.

In fairness trailers made from old trucks are bodges of yokes for the most part anyway. A truck chassis is very different by design to a trailer one.

True, but not all home built trailers are cobbled together from old trucks either. Plenty of factory built trailers unsuitable for road use due to neglect too.

tractorporn

enricoh wrote: »

I'd be getting the welder out myself- 26k +vat for that yoke! Was down at the ploughing and thought that machinery prices are off the wall nowadays.

I thought the same last week. Are machinery manufacturers getting close to pricing themselves out of smaller markets like Ireland? The 113hp Kubota was 60k + vat, the 105 Massey was 80k + vat a d the 824 cent was 200k + vat. Not too many operations could justify spending like that. Second hands might end up very expensive yet

Say my name

Reggie's next run around.

https://youtu.be/tVMQJv54ywI

Albert Johnson

Say my name wrote: »

Reggie's next run around.

https://youtu.be/tVMQJv54ywI

A 16" Porter cattle trailer would be some job behind it for the yearly pilgrimage to the mart. Looks to be a total animal of a yoke, it would definitely turn a few heads when you'd pull up at a filling station for a breakfast roll!

Reggie.

Say my name wrote: »

Reggie's next run around.

https://youtu.be/tVMQJv54ywI

Oh yess

Say my name

Albert Johnson wrote: »

A 16" Porter cattle trailer would be some job behind it for the yearly pilgrimage to the mart. Looks to be a total animal of a yoke, it would definitely turn a few heads when you'd pull up at a filling station for a breakfast roll!

3,500 kg towing capacity.
The Toyota landcruiser is 3,000 kgs I think and the Discovery is similar with 3,500 kg.
It's not really ground-breaking but it looks the part.

What you'd want for your job is a Unimog. :pac:

Military use the Daily 4x4 though. I think the Irish defence forces have one or two.

Albert Johnson

Say my name wrote: »

Albert Johnson wrote: »

A 16" Porter cattle trailer would be some job behind it for the yearly pilgrimage to the mart. Looks to be a total animal of a yoke, it would definitely turn a few heads when you'd pull up at a filling station for a breakfast roll!

3,500 kg towing capacity.
The Toyota landcruiser is 3,000 kgs I think and the Discovery is similar with 3,500 kg.
It's not really ground-breaking but it looks the part.

What you'd want for your job is a Unimog. :pac:

Military use the Daily 4x4 though. I think the Irish defence forces have one or two.

I thought the newer shape Land cruiser (2010 on) were only rated to 2500kg but am open to correction on this. The 2003-2010 model are 3000kg and the pre 03 model was 3500kg to the best of my knowledge. It's something I'm always amazed by that towing capacity​ is so low across the entire range of jeeps in our market.

Having looked at the entire video they haven't really produced anything revolutionary imo. It's basically a van on steroids with a price to match and is a niche product. Having said that it definitely wins in the "I've the most impressive looking off road vehicle stake's". As regards the Unimog I know nothing about them although I often meet one around Carraroe in Sligo that seems to be used as a farm vehicle.

Say my name

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I thought the newer shape Land cruiser (2010 on) were only rated to 2500kg but am open to correction on this. The 2003-2010 model are 3000kg and the pre 03 model was 3500kg to the best of my knowledge. It's something I'm always amazed by that towing capacity​ is so low across the entire range of jeeps in our market.

Having looked at the entire video they haven't really produced anything revolutionary imo. It's basically a van on steroids with a price to match and is a niche product. Having said that it definitely wins in the "I've the most impressive looking off road vehicle stake's". As regards the Unimog I know nothing about them although I often meet one around Carraroe in Sligo that seems to be used as a farm vehicle.

You could be right on the towing capacity.
I think the 3,000 kg could be for models not available on the Irish market? Info came from a uk site.

Going back to the Daily. You can get them with a pto as well for whatever implement takes your fancy.

https://www.iveco-dealership.co.uk/new-vehicles/daily-4x4

Although the way things are going with diesel you'd want it powered on bio methane or something..

blue5000

Say my name wrote: »

Reggie's next run around.

https://youtu.be/tVMQJv54ywI

I heard of €900 labour for changing a timing belt though.

TheBoyConor

emaherx wrote: »

You don't need to be sure someone doesn't hook it up to a 50K tractor as that is their responsibility same could be said about someone hooking up a certified well engineered and plated 40K trailer and pulling it at 70k up the motorway behind a fast tractor as they would be equally liable. Such stupidity removes the liability from the trailer builder and places it completely on the driver.

That is true to an extent, it is their fault mostly for hitching up to the trailer with the fast tractor. But, in the event of a claim against you a plaintiff could argue that by having 50k tractors capable of hitching up to a cobbled together sub 40k trailer, that you had an unsafe system of work because that unsafe situation could happen by oversight.
That is why I suggested different hitch types so a 50k tractor couldn't physically be hitched to the trailer. Much much safer and less chance of a dangerous vehicle being on the road. It would also put you in a good position of something did happen because if someone, an employee, intentionally swapped hitches so they could haul the old trailer knowing it was not legal or safe, then they would be full in the wrong. But then they will probably argue they were inadequatly trained or instructed.

Also because the trailer wouldn't be a properly engineered design, a plaintiff could argue that all sorts of elements of the trailer were incorrect, insufficient, badly built or otherwise unsafe. Look it might be a pure fine trailer but the barristers job will to be nitpick at every little detail to eat away at your position and make you look bad.


Lol, I can assure you I don't make or sell trailers! But at 26k a pop maybe I should......

wrangler

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is true to an extent, it is their fault mostly for hitching up to the trailer with the fast tractor. But, in the event of a claim against you a plaintiff could argue that by having 50k tractors capable of hitching up to a cobbled together sub 40k trailer, that you had an unsafe system of work because that unsafe situation could happen by oversight.
That is why I suggested different hitch types so a 50k tractor couldn't physically be hitched to the trailer. Much much safer and less chance of a dangerous vehicle being on the road. It would also put you in a good position of something did happen because if someone, an employee, intentionally swapped hitches so they could haul the old trailer knowing it was not legal or safe, then they would be full in the wrong. But then they will probably argue they were inadequatly trained or instructed.

Also because the trailer wouldn't be a properly engineered design, a plaintiff could argue that all sorts of elements of the trailer were incorrect, insufficient, badly built or otherwise unsafe. Look it might be a pure fine trailer but the barristers job will to be nitpick at every little detail to eat away at your position and make you look bad.


Lol, I can assure you I don't make or sell trailers! But at 26k a pop maybe I should......

I posted shutters on here that I was making for my cattle shed here a few mths ago.
I asked a local engineering firm for a quote for five and they came up with €2800, I did it myself after and paid €950 for the steel etc. and probably wasn't dealing in the cheapest place either.
There's probably an opening for that sort of industry now with all the dairy expansion

emaherx

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That is true to an extent, it is their fault mostly for hitching up to the trailer with the fast tractor. But, in the event of a claim against you a plaintiff could argue that by having 50k tractors capable of hitching up to a cobbled together sub 40k trailer, that you had an unsafe system of work because that unsafe situation could happen by oversight.
That is why I suggested different hitch types so a 50k tractor couldn't physically be hitched to the trailer. Much much safer and less chance of a dangerous vehicle being on the road. It would also put you in a good position of something did happen because if someone, an employee, intentionally swapped hitches so they could haul the old trailer knowing it was not legal or safe, then they would be full in the wrong. But then they will probably argue they were inadequatly trained or instructed.

Also because the trailer wouldn't be a properly engineered design, a plaintiff could argue that all sorts of elements of the trailer were incorrect, insufficient, badly built or otherwise unsafe. Look it might be a pure fine trailer but the barristers job will to be nitpick at every little detail to eat away at your position and make you look bad.


Lol, I can assure you I don't make or sell trailers! But at 26k a pop maybe I should......

You're different hitch solution wouldn't work. The highest speed rated Agri trailers already require a different hitch, ball spoon type, but the highest speed tractors come with clevis type hitches also, meaning they can pull anything. It is the responsibility of the driver to drive at appropriate speed for trailer in tow. Ignorance is not a defence on the matter.


The fastest you can tow any trailer legally is 80kph I see many Jeeps with trailers traveling in excess of 120 kph on motorways regularly no amount of selections of hitches will prevent someone from speeding.

You may be right on the barristers nit picking but it is the case that a home made trailer can be certified if that's your concern, however any trailer certified or not can deteriorate over time and have defects which can come into question.
And I agree there are plenty of cobbled together unsafe monstrosities on the road that shouldn't be. Also many older factory/engineering shop built trailers have no plates but are still perfectly serviceable. A plate fitted to a trailer only suggests it was safe the day it was fitted.

wrangler

emaherx wrote: »

You're different hitch solution wouldn't work. The highest speed rated Agri trailers already require a different hitch, ball spoon type, but the highest speed tractors come with clevis type hitches also, meaning they can pull anything. It is the responsibility of the driver to drive at appropriate speed for trailer in tow. Ignorance is not a defence on the matter.


The fastest you can tow any trailer legally is 80kph I see many Jeeps with trailers traveling in excess of 120 kph on motorways regularly no amount of selections of hitches will prevent someone from speeding.

You may be right on the barristers nit picking but it is the case that a home made trailer can be certified if that's your concern, however any trailer certified or not can deteriorate over time and have defects which can come into question.
And I agree there are plenty of cobbled together unsafe monstrosities on the road that shouldn't be. Also many older factory/engineering shop built trailers have no plates but are still perfectly serviceable. A plate fitted to a trailer only suggests it was safe the day it was fitted.

You're in the way at 80 on the motorway, lorries have to crawl out in the outside lane to get by and stay out for about 2 kms to get by

9935452

wrangler wrote: »

emaherx wrote: »

You're different hitch solution wouldn't work. The highest speed rated Agri trailers already require a different hitch, ball spoon type, but the highest speed tractors come with clevis type hitches also, meaning they can pull anything. It is the responsibility of the driver to drive at appropriate speed for trailer in tow. Ignorance is not a defence on the matter.


The fastest you can tow any trailer legally is 80kph I see many Jeeps with trailers traveling in excess of 120 kph on motorways regularly no amount of selections of hitches will prevent someone from speeding.

You may be right on the barristers nit picking but it is the case that a home made trailer can be certified if that's your concern, however any trailer certified or not can deteriorate over time and have defects which can come into question.
And I agree there are plenty of cobbled together unsafe monstrosities on the road that shouldn't be. Also many older factory/engineering shop built trailers have no plates but are still perfectly serviceable. A plate fitted to a trailer only suggests it was safe the day it was fitted.

You're in the way at 80 on the motorway, lorries have to crawl out in the outside lane to get by and stay out for about 2 kms to get by

Thats probably why its illegal for lorries to use the outside lane on a motorway

wrangler

9935452 wrote: »

Thats probably why its illegal for lorries to use the outside lane on a motorway

I didn't know that, all the more reason not to be in their way

2018na

wrangler wrote: »

I didn't know that, all the more reason not to be in their way

Only illegal on a three lane motorway

emaherx

2018na wrote: »

Only illegal on a three lane motorway

Illegal on all motorways.

emaherx

wrangler wrote: »

You're in the way at 80 on the motorway, lorries have to crawl out in the outside lane to get by and stay out for about 2 kms to get by

Lorries max speed limit is 90kph and aren't allowed in outside lane so can't see that as a reason to speed with Jeep/trailer at 120kph.

High speed tractors are allowed to travel on motorway also at much lower speeds.

wrangler

emaherx wrote: »

Lorries max speed limit is 90kph and aren't allowed in outside lane so can't see that as a reason to speed with Jeep/trailer at 120kph.

I would always drive at 100Km /hr to keep out of the lorries way, never see a speed trap on the motorway

dzer2

Thats probably why its illegal for lorries to use the outside lane on a motorway[/quote]


Not true lorries cannot use the outside lane on 3 lane carriage ways

emaherx

wrangler wrote: »

I would always drive at 100Km /hr to keep out of the lorries way, never see a speed trap on the motorway

You obviously don't travel the M3. Also big difference between you traveling at 100 kph and the idiots I was referring to driving in excess of 120kph

emaherx

dzer2 wrote: »

Not true lorries cannot use the outside lane on 3 lane carriage ways

From RSA

Do not use the outside lane if you are driving:
• a goods vehicle with a maximum authorised mass (MAM) of more than 3,500 kilogrammes such as a lorry or heavy goods vehicle;
• a vehicle towing a trailer, horsebox or caravan.
You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of an obstruction ahead.

Base price

dzer2 wrote: »

Thats probably why its illegal for lorries to use the outside lane on a motorway

Not true lorries cannot use the outside lane on 3 lane carriage ways[/QUOTE]
HGV with a MAM of over 3500kgs and vehicles towing a trailer/caravan cannot use the outside lane of a motorway unless under exceptional circumstances where the inside lane is obstructed.

9935452

Its a penalty point offence to drive a vehicle subject to an ordinary speed limit of 90k or less in the outside lane of a motorway

Reggie.

wrangler wrote: »

I didn't know that, all the more reason not to be in their way

Lorries are supposed to be restricted to 80kph aswell

emaherx

Reggie. wrote: »

Lorries are supposed to be restricted to 80kph aswell

Was increased to 90kph

Reggie.

emaherx wrote: »

Was increased to 90kph

Good to know

wrangler

Reggie. wrote: »

Good to know

Most trucks on the motorway are doing 95+