VW ID.4

Jofspring · 14-04-2021 10:53pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Well that's just wrong. Go to a different dealer if that one isn't interest. I had my test drive about 3 weeks ago, no bother, can sanitised, test drove it alone. It was lovely.

If he doesn't need the range then yeah, it's a nice spec. The city and style specs are for just that. The city, and for showing a bit of style. Not for long distances.

The skoda enyaq will allow more customisation, though I'd be confident it doesn't have as much value at the id4.

Ya I'll get him to chance another dealer. Most dealers will be well outside his county/20km though which at the moment is another issue.

Have speced up the Enyaq a few times myself. It looks reasonable initially but it flies up in price very quickly when you add some things that are standard in ID.4. A real pity if you ask me. Kia EV6, Nissan Aryia and Hyundai Ioniq 5 look very interesting also.

Padraig Mor · 14-04-2021 11:01pm

'Technically' there should be no test drives currently, and no car sales other than online due to Level 5. Reality is a bit different though! My VW dealer (same as Black Knight's) openly admitted they were open for sales, but just didn't advertise the fact. It was busy every time I was up there. I had two test drives (unaccompanied) in the ID4 before getting mine.

14-04-2021 11:23pm

Jofspring wrote: »

It's my father having the look at it. He would definitely prefer a bigger battery although not essential for his needs. A nicer spec would probably be more important to him than a large battery. He usually buys high spec automatics, and his drive to work is 6km round trip. If the 77 wasn't 10k more he'd definitely go for it though. They have a second car which is a diesel in the household already so have long distance covered.

He enquired about a test drive and was told not during restrictions.

Fair enough, I'm sure he's like the 58 Kwh 150 odd HP but the basic specs are pretty basic, how about the Kia E-Niro or E-Soul ? they got more power and much larger batteries, better spec and to be honest your Father might find the touch screen and software very irritating in the id.4 so the E-Nito and E-Soul might be better options for him ?

dublinscot · 14-04-2021 11:48pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

'Technically' there should be no test drives currently, and no car sales other than online due to Level 5. Reality is a bit different though! My VW dealer (same as Black Knight's) openly admitted they were open for sales, but just didn't advertise the fact. It was busy every time I was up there. I had two test drives (unaccompanied) in the ID4 before getting mine.

I did an accompanied test drive of an ID3 and e208 just 1 week into this years Level 5 restrictions. They've been breaking the rules since day 1, but i can't say i blame them.

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 1:40pm

eko wrote: »

It's also why we went with the ID.4 Style - smaller battery but better basic kit. including the reversing camera. The equivalent with the 77kWh battery was the Business spec but it was 10k more. We're replacing the e-Golf with it and the range was fine for us on that, so we figured it'll be fine on this also.

Thanks for this. Do you mind me asking if you drive a long commute or journey? Say 130km round trip a few days a week?

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 1:45pm

Summer8181 wrote: »

My cost was €18 for 67 kWh. 22kWh charger but took 6 hours.

8.50 for 28kWh using 50kWh charger. Took 45 minutes.

Battery was 65% and probably wasn't that hot. Cold outside but I drove average 105km per hour for 1 hour.

Compared to a diesel car how much cheaper per mile or km would running an ID4 be?

Black_Knight · 15-04-2021 1:52pm

forumdedum wrote: »

Compared to a diesel car how much cheaper per mile or km would running an ID4 be?

Generally EVs can be run for about 1/5 the fuel costs of diesel.

My old Passat CC was costing me about €850 a year in fuel, and my old Ioniq EV was costing me about €150 a year. ID.4 will cost me a bit more, closer to €200 a year i'd imagine. Add ~€50 for public charging I might do during the year, and that's pretty generous for me.

77kWh battery, doing 400km on a full charge = 0.1925kWh per km. My cost per kWh at night is 6cent, so 1.155cent per 1km of driving.

Black_Knight · 15-04-2021 1:58pm

forumdedum wrote: »

Thanks for this. Do you mind me asking if you drive a long commute or journey? Say 130km round trip a few days a week?

The smaller battery spec'd City and Style ID.4 cars would likely do ~250km on a full charge. More towards 200km if you're at motorway speeds/bad weather. So a 130km round trip would be no bother any day of the week, but obviously you'd want to be charging to full the night before you hit the road. Charging from empty to full on a home charger would take a bit over 7 hours (overnight basically). If you only used the 3 pin charger it'd take about 24 hours.

the_amazing_raisin · 15-04-2021 2:01pm

forumdedum wrote: »

Compared to a diesel car how much cheaper per mile or km would running an ID4 be?

Depends on how much DC fast charging you use, example below assumes charging at home 90% of the time which is typical for an EV driver with home charging

|VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI|VW ID.4
||
Annual milage (km)|12500|12500
Annual electric driving (km)||12500
Electric economy (kWh/100km)||22.5
Annual conbined driving (km)|12500|0
Combined fuel ecomony (l/100km)|6|
Charger losses||10.00%
DC Charging Percentage (%)||10.00%
Total Electricity used (kWh)||2812.5
Domestic Electricity used (kWh)||2531.25
DC Charging Electricity used (kWh)||281.25
Fuel used (l)|750|
||
Home Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.0523|
DC Charge Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.3|
Fuel cost (€/l)|1.47|
||
||
Annual costs||
Maintenance|200|85
NCT|0|0
Fuel (BIK tax amount)|1102.5|216.759375
Insurance|537|449
Tax|270|120
Tolls||
||
TOTAL|2109.5|870.759375
Cost savings vs ICE||1238.740625

Savings versus a diesel Tiguan come to over €1200 per year, mosy of which is a €900 saving in fuel

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 2:05pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Generally EVs can be run for about 1/5 the fuel costs of diesel.

My old Passat CC was costing me about €850 a year in fuel, and my old Ioniq EV was costing me about €150 a year. ID.4 will cost me a bit more, closer to €200 a year i'd imagine. Add ~€50 for public charging I might do during the year, and that's pretty generous for me.

77kWh battery, doing 400km on a full charge = 0.1925kWh per km. My cost per kWh at night is 6cent, so 1.155cent per 1km of driving.

Thanks for this. I've just done some sums. I spent €3058.60 on diesel in 2019, pre-Covid.

I think I would have to get a separate night meter installed at my home. Pretty sure I can charge at home no problem.

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 2:06pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Depends on how much DC fast charging you use, example below assumes charging at home 90% of the time which is typical for an EV driver with home charging

|VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI|VW ID.4
||
Annual milage (km)|12500|12500
Annual electric driving (km)||12500
Electric economy (kWh/100km)||22.5
Annual conbined driving (km)|12500|0
Combined fuel ecomony (l/100km)|6|
Charger losses||10.00%
DC Charging Percentage (%)||10.00%
Total Electricity used (kWh)||2812.5
Domestic Electricity used (kWh)||2531.25
DC Charging Electricity used (kWh)||281.25
Fuel used (l)|750|
||
Home Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.0523|
DC Charge Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.3|
Fuel cost (€/l)|1.47|
||
||
Annual costs||
Maintenance|200|85
NCT|0|0
Fuel (BIK tax amount)|1102.5|216.759375
Insurance|537|449
Tax|270|120
Tolls||
||
TOTAL|2109.5|870.759375
Cost savings vs ICE||1238.740625

Savings versus a diesel Tiguan come to over €1200 per year, mosy of which is a €900 saving in fuel

Thanks a million for this, very comprehensive!

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 2:12pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

The smaller battery spec'd City and Style ID.4 cars would likely do ~250km on a full charge. More towards 200km if you're at motorway speeds/bad weather. So a 130km round trip would be no bother any day of the week, but obviously you'd want to be charging to full the night before you hit the road. Charging from empty to full on a home charger would take a bit over 7 hours (overnight basically). If you only used the 3 pin charger it'd take about 24 hours.

I would drive about 30 miles of motorway in all weathers.

Would be nice to have more range should I wish to drive to Cork or Galway on a staycation. I suppose stopping once or twice can be part of the trip anyway.

Real shame about that reverse camera!

Is it the case that while you save on fuel costs the initial price of the EV just balances out?

Black_Knight · 15-04-2021 2:55pm

forumdedum wrote: »

I would drive about 30 miles of motorway in all weathers.

Would be nice to have more range should I wish to drive to Cork or Galway on a staycation. I suppose stopping once or twice can be part of the trip anyway.

Real shame about that reverse camera!

Is it the case that while you save on fuel costs the initial price of the EV just balances out?

Correct, depending on the additional initial cost of the EV, and the amount of driving you do. The more driving you do, the more savings an EV will give you.

€3000 on diesel.. so about 40k+ km a year? And only a couple of 130km trips a week? 40k km a week is 770km a week. You sure those numbers add up?

€3k on fuel would yield a nice ~€2500 savings a year. Don't forget that when budgeting.

the_amazing_raisin · 15-04-2021 3:34pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Correct, depending on the additional initial cost of the EV, and the amount of driving you do. The more driving you do, the more savings an EV will give you.

€3000 on diesel.. so about 40k+ km a year? And only a couple of 130km trips a week? 40k km a week is 770km a week. You sure those numbers add up?

€3k on fuel would yield a nice ~€2500 savings a year. Don't forget that when budgeting.

I upped the mileage to 40k km (which I guess should be 40Mm?) and here's the comparison

|VW Tiguan 2.0 TDI|VW ID.4
||
Annual milage (km)|40000|40000
Annual electric driving (km)|0|40000
Electric economy (kWh/100km)|16.8|22.5
Annual conbined driving (km)|40000|0
Combined fuel ecomony (l/100km)|6|3.5
Charger losses||10.00%
DC Charging Percentage (%)||10.00%
Total Electricity used (kWh)|0|9000
Domestic Electricity used (kWh)|0|8100
DC Charging Electricity used (kWh)|0|900
Fuel used (l)|2400|0
||
Home Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.0523|0.0523
DC Charge Electricity cost (€/kWh)|0.3|0.3
Fuel cost (€/l)|1.37|1.47
||
||
Annual costs||
Maintenance|200|85
NCT|0|0
Fuel/Electricity|3288|693.63
Insurance|537|449
Tax|270|120
||
||
TOTAL|4295|1347.63
Cost savings vs ICE||2947.37

Current estimate is €2k savings, I'd say getting that up to €2,500 would be easy enough as I'm being fairly optimistic regarding the Tiguan's fuel usage

EDIT: Fixed the calculations, it's actually €3k savings

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 3:52pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Correct, depending on the additional initial cost of the EV, and the amount of driving you do. The more driving you do, the more savings an EV will give you.

€3000 on diesel.. so about 40k+ km a year? And only a couple of 130km trips a week? 40k km a week is 770km a week. You sure those numbers add up?

€3k on fuel would yield a nice ~€2500 savings a year. Don't forget that when budgeting.

Sometimes it's about 3 days a week 130km, sometimes that can become 5 or 6. I tended to have to refuel mostly each week, from €68 to €72, sometimes dropping to €60 depending on fuel costs.

The car is a 162 (August) and has 143,000km on the clock. Would have been a fair bit more as my driving is down quite a lot since Covid. So driving on average 3,000km per month.

catharsis · 15-04-2021 3:54pm

forumdedum wrote: »

Is it the case that while you save on fuel costs the initial price of the EV just balances out?

Black_Knight wrote: »

Correct,
[snip]

€3k on fuel would yield a nice ~€2500 savings a year. Don't forget that when budgeting.

I'd just like to re-iterate the point made earlier in the thread that there is no automatic Tiguan available cheaper than an ID.4 - so there is no additional cost to an EV on a true like for like basis, that argument is simply no longer valid.

There are cheaper petrol or diesel cars available but they are objectively not comparable, Comparable petrol/diesel cars are now more expensive than EVs - we have the direct comparisons in the VW range.

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 3:58pm

catharsis wrote: »

I'd just like to re-iterate the point made earlier in the thread that there is no automatic Tiguan available cheaper than an ID.4 - so there is no additional cost to an EV on a true like for like basis, that argument is simply no longer valid.

There are cheaper petrol or diesel cars available but they are objectively not comparable, Comparable petrol/diesel cars are now more expensive than EVs - we have the direct comparisons in the VW range.

That's an interesting point.

Nearly bought automatic Tiguan last time but was too long a delay for it to arrive and I needed car. Had never owned VW before, I do like VW.

Black_Knight · 15-04-2021 4:07pm

forumdedum wrote: »

Sometimes it's about 3 days a week 130km, sometimes that can become 5 or 6. I tended to have to refuel mostly each week, from €68 to €72, sometimes dropping to €60 depending on fuel costs.

The car is a 162 (August) and has 143,000km on the clock. Would have been a fair bit more as my driving is down quite a lot since Covid.

If 130km is more or less your longest regular journey, and you don't mind the ~200km motorway range, then save the money and get the smaller battery version.
Style model might be nice if you do much night driving with the Matrix Headlights. Rear view camera too. Extra 4k in cost though.

Pity the 77kWh models are poorly priced IMO. 1st was good value. Life is too basic/lacks a few 2021 basics, and business is too pricey IMO.

15-04-2021 4:16pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

If 130km is more or less your longest regular journey, and you don't mind the ~200km motorway range, then save the money and get the smaller battery version.
Style model might be nice if you do much night driving with the Matrix Headlights. Rear view camera too. Extra 4k in cost though.

Pity the 77kWh models are poorly priced IMO. 1st was good value. Life is too basic/lacks a few 2021 basics, and business is too pricey IMO.

That's typically German though isn't it ? you get a basic car as standard and once you spec it up it costs a lot more.

At least the smaller battery charges pretty fast, that's if they can manage the battery temp in Winter to allow it or even in an average Irish Summer, by the next morning the battery could be cold enough that charging isn't so fast.

Jofspring · 15-04-2021 4:31pm

Tried the two nearest dealers in Limerick for a test drive and still no cigar. Not during level 5.

v10 · 15-04-2021 5:43pm

Got my home charger installed today, happy with nice neat job.

https://imgur.com/a/HLeIHmx

deravarra · 15-04-2021 5:47pm

v10 wrote: »

Got my home charger installed today, happy with nice neat job.

https://imgur.com/a/HLeIHmx

Very neat install!

TitianGerm · 15-04-2021 5:49pm

v10 wrote: »

Got my home charger installed today, happy with nice neat job.

https://imgur.com/a/HLeIHmx

No isolator switch. There'll be lads in the Home Charger thread blowing their lids.

v10 · 15-04-2021 5:54pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

No isolator switch. There'll be lads in the Home Charger thread blowing their lids.

Isolator switch is inside the meter box. Hopefully their lids will remain intact

the_amazing_raisin · 15-04-2021 6:00pm

TitianGerm wrote: »

No isolator switch. There'll be lads in the Home Charger thread blowing their lids.

Yeah, there'll be lads over there demanding that armed Gardai are sent out to that house immediately

Some of the RECs can be a tad uptight IMO

TitianGerm · 15-04-2021 6:01pm

v10 wrote: »

Isolator switch is inside the meter box. Hopefully their lids will remain intact

As far as I can gather it's meant to be installed beside the charger and available to disconnect power to the charger without obstruction.

I'd definitely prefer it like yours though.

Black_Knight · 15-04-2021 6:03pm

A bit awkward to quickly kill power to the unit if is in the meter box. Not the worst, and certainly more appealing end look.

alfa_aficionado · 15-04-2021 6:21pm

v10 wrote: »

Got my home charger installed today, happy with nice neat job.

Looks very tidy - whereabouts in the country are you?

alfa_aficionado · 15-04-2021 6:22pm

the_amazing_raisin wrote: »

Yeah, there'll be lads over there demanding that armed Gardai are sent out to that house immediately

Some of the RECs can be a tad uptight IMO

That's why he posted in here!

forumdedum · 15-04-2021 6:23pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

If 130km is more or less your longest regular journey, and you don't mind the ~200km motorway range, then save the money and get the smaller battery version.
Style model might be nice if you do much night driving with the Matrix Headlights. Rear view camera too. Extra 4k in cost though.

Pity the 77kWh models are poorly priced IMO. 1st was good value. Life is too basic/lacks a few 2021 basics, and business is too pricey IMO.

After checking 135km round trip. I would so prefer to have plenty of range. I would have bought an EV years ago if range was better.

Funny I nearly bought the i3 years ago but it always ended up around the €50,000 which was too much. EVs new are still very pricey imo.

Really disappointed I missed out on the 1st.

I have little tolerance of extras being removed, particularly in Ireland. I remember having the basic Audi A4 and when I told an Audi sale rep while in holiday in USA what I had gotten for the equivalent in $ he was truly shocked. In USA I could have had an S-Line high end car.

VW ID.4

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