tikkahunter wrote: » Would you not present these figures to your county board?
ArielAtom wrote: » No one here has ever disputed the figure between 07 and 17 as these were the Dublin project years. They have been seen by the world and his wife, if a county board I Ireland has not seen them, they are not doing their job.
ooter wrote: » Straight from the horse's mouth earlier, lack of skill is not an issue with hurling in dublin, so why no senior all ireland?
thesultan wrote: » It is lack of skill. All solo and hand pass
Enquiring wrote: » This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! Again, you can clearly see the disparity in funding and never forget that you have to double Dublin's figure on these tables as that's what they were really spending on coaches throughout these years.
kona wrote: » I would say the reason the dublin hurlers have not won a all ireland isnt down to skill, they are as talented a bunch as anybody bar maybe the top 3. They havnt won a all ireland and will not until they are mentally prepared for it. I dont think they have the right mentality to beat say a limerick if it was do or die last 10 minutes of a final. They also have the senior footballers, alot of the talent are dual players eg. Connolly, kilkenny, con. As ferociously competitive as the senior panel is, thats currently the best way your going to win a all ireland as a dub.
tritium wrote: » I’m confused Your figures total a smidgeon over €2.8 million When I look at the gaas 2014 games development report for the Irish sports council there’s about €9.5 million total development spend. Within that I can see roughly the right Figure for dublin broken out under dublin games development (1.43m- I’m assuming this corresponds to your dublin figures though obviously certainty Is difficult given you’ve just dumped a list of numbers down. A full breakdown of games development numbers from your source material would be useful here). That goes into two headings - deployment of personnel and projects Excluding this there’s other deployment of personnel of nearly 3 million for example, county projects including talent academies of 1.2 million under the games development heading. Care to explain where the rest of that money is in your figures, and to where its allocated
Enquiring wrote: » The numbers are from the GAA annual accounts. They are freely available. What are you confused about? I've quoted what each county received for games development in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 in the post you quoted. Do you dispute the GAA's figures or what's the issue?
tritium wrote: » My numbers are also freely available, from a report by the GAA for the Irish sport council. Do You dispute the GAAs figures? I’m confused because there seems to be far more games development money than you’re have in your figures. Where is the rest of the money in your figures? For example is this additional money also available to the counties through non County allocations, possibly some of it provincially for example?
Enquiring wrote: » Games development money goes to the provincial council's also. Are you still trying to claim that Dublin are not on the Leinster council and don't receive money from the Leinster council? The money is just for other counties in Leinster? If so, you're going to have to back that up with some evidence.
tritium wrote: » Oh so your figures don’t tell the full story. That’s quite an admission for you since it means the figures you posted are misleading at best. Let’s look at the personnel deployment heading I quoted. The non dublin element is bigger than the total non dublin county allocation you provided. How is that broken down by county?
Enquiring wrote: » We can split the money each provincial council gets equally amongst all counties if you want? That will leave us in the same position, just with higher totals. Unless you have some proof that Dublin don't receive funding from the Leinster council? Care to provide us with this proof?
ArmaniJeanss wrote: » Well if there's say another €1.2M being split 12 ways equally, then obviously Dublin's lead stays the same. But the differential would now be hugely changed - if in your previous chart Dublin were receiving 20x another county, the new figures would see it reduced to 9x. So it would be great to see the Nett figures after the provincial amount has been allocated.
tritium wrote: » Is it being split equally? Show me the details for that would you, what’s the allocation You’re the one making the allegations so the onus is on you to explain how the money is spent unfairly. So far you’re kind of floundering in afraid. Here, I’ll help you out with this from the Leinster council 2014 financial statements: €1.8m on games promotion officers, another 335k for games development officers and provincial officers- it actually has the dublin coaching project broken out separately and all- 241k
Enquiring wrote: » So no proof of your claim that every county except Dublin receive games development money from the Leinster council? I'm not surprised. Dublin remain as part of Leinster even though they demanded to be treated like a province. They get funding from the Leinster council just like every other county. Just as you were looking for a more complete picture, the figures for Dublin on the GAA's accounts don't match what they actually spend on games development. On the Strategic Review Committee heading on the Dublin county board accounts, Dublin had an income of 2.5 million in 2015 and 2.7 million in 2016. While the GAA accounts state they received 1.4 million for both years.
tritium wrote: » You’re the one making the claims, the onus is on you to explain the vast sums of money I’ve demonstrated are missing from your “evidence”. The onus is on you to show that that’s been allocated unfairly since you’re the one making the allegation. Right now all you have is a (very)selective subset of a much larger figure that is split in one way, it demonstrates nothing about total funding allocations which I’ve shown are significantly larger. If you can prove that the rest of the millions are distributed in an unbalanced way you might be in a position to start a conversation again, however at this point you basically have nothing, and it’s not up to me to fix that for you
Enquiring wrote: » You made the claim that all Leinster counties apart from Dublin receive games development funding from the Leinster council. You haven't provided a shred of evidence to back that up! I've provided GAA annual accounts along with Dublin GAA accounts which show a huge disparity in funding. If you can provide some proof of your claims, will you kindly post it here? This is evidence for example: The Dublin county board chief executive, John Costello stated that Dublin spent 3.6 million on games development funding in 2018. That's from the horses mouth. 3.6 million!!!
tritium wrote: » Again, you claimed a certain allocation of games development funding. It’s now apparent that you can’t actually account for the majority of said games development funding. unless you can show that your argument is baseless and you don’t actually know the true answer
MayoAreMagic wrote: » Why arent you providing any proof of tour own claims or answering any of the questions put to you? It seems you dont want to engage in any kind of meaningful debate on the topic. It is also a bit rich ask questions, many of which have already been answered, while refusing to address anything asked of you. Are you not able to answer them?
Enquiring wrote: » Ok, time to go back to when the funding began! The earliest evidence I can get is from 2002. The funding wasn't to the level it was to become from 2005. At that stage, the Sports Council started funding Dublin but as a total spend on Games Development, Dublin were receiving a lot. They were being part funded by HQ and part funded by the Leinster Council. The 'Football Development Project' was Dublin. Quite a large total, they were also receiving 200,000 a year from the Leinster Council so about 700,000 a year on Games Development.
tritium wrote: » When you say they received 200k from the Leinster council, what was the Leinster councils total spend on games development in 2002?
Enquiring wrote: » Hang on. You failed to back up any of your claims, you failed to answer any question put to you and now you're back demanding answers. Tomorrow I will be supplying the master plan. The document that will all sound very familiar, basically all the steps Dublin have taken that was drawn up for them. It's a lot of reading but it will explain how we got in this situation where we must split Dublin into 4.
tritium wrote: » I keep telling you but you seem to struggle with it You made the allegations, you need to provide the evidence. I’ve already provided the information to show that you ignored a sizeable chunk of games development funding in your allegations, you’ve already conceded that. It doesn’t fall on me to show what was done with a single cent of that additional money because, you’ve guessed it, you’re the one making the allegations, On that basis alone your “evidence” is garbage. By the way when you say dublin were being bankrolled by Leinster council too on 2002, can you tell me what an appropriate percentage of Leinster council games development funding would be to go to dublin in that year? ( in your humble opinion of course)
Enquiring wrote: » Conceded? You're acting like you've discovered the third secret of Fatima here! Everyone knows that the provincial council's provide funding for games development. Dublin avail of this too, since you couldn't provide any evidence to the contrary, I assume you've had to accept this as fact? The Munster, Ulster and Connaught provincial council's provide money as well as the Leinster council. This is common knowledge. What my figures show is that the funding for all counties except one are broadly similar. The gap between 2nd on the list in Cork and 32nd on the list in fermanagh is not that much. There isn't a big gap between Leitrim or Antrim or Kerry and Kilkenny. That's because all counties had access to a similar number of coaches. All below 6. One county has been completely out of line with all others. Dublin had their own special scheme set up for them. They received millions upon millions more than anyone else to provide nearly every club in Dublin with their own professional coach. The evidence I've provided shows that Dublin have spent over 50 million on games development since 2002! My argument is that Dublin should be split. This 50 million is only part of the argument to show why this should happen. That's the amazing thing. Dublin spend over 2 million per year on wages and salaries, receive over 2 million in sponsorship, spend over 1.5 million every year on team preparations. I've provided evidence for all of this. To top it all off, later I will provide evidence to show that all the above has happened off the back of a detailed plan that was drawn up for them by a special team put together by the GAA.
tritium wrote: » Let’s just take one example of the dishonesty of the argument you’ve presented. Your position is that the Leinster council give development money to everyone so the imbalance must be maintained. Let’s look at that using evidence I’ve already presented (for those who want to say I’m not offering any answers). I already mentioned the figures in the GAA games development report 2014 specifically broke down the dublin games development separately to just ‘games development’. Each of these have headings for deployment of personnel-1.4m under the dublin heading and 3m under the gd heading. Where does this go? Well the staffing for games development is substantial across the country. Let’s look at the list of games development personell in the report to see how substantial. Dublin have just over 60, the rest of Leinster for example have 68. (That number for rest of Leinster is 118 now as I previously demonstrated). Now we’ve noted that dublin clubs are also paying a share, and some employees are also part time so an exact mapping is difficult but it seems reasonable that the GAA aren’t operating a separate salary structure ( you know the BMWs for the dubs thing others have alluded to) so that deployment figure shows a massive spend outside dublin, bigger than the county distributor you highlight
