The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

I have done already. You can't even face the facts that Dublin were over funded for 2 decades, you have no interest in fair play.

No you haven’t

I asked you for detail- what’s the basis of allocation for example?

Still waiting, I suspect you don’t actually have any idea what the answer is

jmayo

Interesting discussion last night on Newstalk last night.

Went through all Dublins All Irelands and the noticable thing is they are getting easier for them to win.
Yes they just nearely won them a few years ago by a single point, but now that is not the case at all.

Everyone brings up Kerry and how close they were last year, but their draw
was only achieved by having extra man for large chunk of the match.
In the replay they were hockeyed.

Another point made was that whole intercounty competition is doomed.
Splitting Dublin in two is not the answer since before long it would be Dublin North versus Dublin South.
So you would need to split it in 3 or 4.
Even then the point is the whole intercounty system is still at the mercy of changing demographics.

Population growth is in the East with some in the South around Cork, Limerick, Waterford.
The West, Midlands, South West, North West, etc are just going to fall further behind.

The GAA can't do anything about that.

And the point was also made the intercounty system was never really a level playing field anyway because smaller counties were always at huge disadvantage.

Of course I think it was Joe Molloy presenting that went back to old GAA stereotypical thing about not being the same beating "Dublin coast" or Dublin North and as Cork contributor said (Not sure who it was) I wouldn't care who it was so long as Cork won the All Ireland.

Likewise I would say the same for Mayo.

You can never have a fair competition when it is based around county boundaries and there are no real opportunities to move to other teams.

The GAA need to seriously start looking at the long term because if it is left too late too many people will have tuned out.

Yes kids will still be playing underage at local clubs, but who in future will make the long term life limiting commitment to county panels when there is no chance of a return.
There is only so much shyte about playing for your county you can pedal.

How the GAA has managed to convince people this long to dedicate their time to lost causes such as the weaker counties teams has always been beyond me.

Nowadays the level of commitment for any county panel, indeed any decent club side is pretty intense and life limiting.

Hell I remember hearing Connacht stalwart John Muldoon comment on how they (professionals in Connacht Rugby team) could go for a drink unlike his old school friends playing top club hurling for Portumna (amateurs).

Young people are changing, and they aren't going to put their lives on hold to play a couple of matches a year with no chance of winning.

The GAA in Mayo can currently swing that one of the best young footballing prospects in the country, Oisin Mullen, will forget about a professional career in Oz for a couple of years.
But they are still getting to All Irelands, can still sell the belief they are getting near the holy grail and immortality for all that help achieve it.

But if Mayo fall off, take a couple of hammerings from Dublin, then watch the next Oisin Mullins leg it to Australia tout suite.
And who would blame them.

Bass Reeves

tritium wrote: »

That’s a bit self serving to your argument don’t you think? The reverse point of view is that if you have 1 GPO for a group of 100 kids and 1 GPO for a group of 1000 kids the second group only have access to 1/10 of the GAA resources that the first group do. That was part the problem they were trying to address in dublin.

Looking at the numbers 230 put of 300 are outside dublin, or 77%, well within you 50-80% request. That assumes all gpds cost roughly the same to the GAA other counties go half the way dublin do

I wonder too how so many gpds don’t boost the spend in other counties- does anyone know if the spend is accounted for in the same way or is for example some of it provincial rather than county level?

I really don’t get why co funding isn’t an option either? It really feels like more of the poor mouth stuff

I’d also note the figures are a little old at this point. I believe for example the rest if Leinster have 36 additional personnel in the last couple of years though I’d have to dig out a source for that

Edit: looking at the below if does appear counties have access to GDAs in some aort of arrangement with the provincial setup

https://munster.gaa.ie/2019/10/job-posting-games-development-administrator-kerry-gaa/

GDA funding the way it is structured is of no use to clubs outside of large urban centers. As I posted on club finances the choices smaller clubs have to make. At this stage Dublin clubs and Dublin GAA are able in a position to fund GDA's themselves. Clubs will have to make choices in where they direct there funding just like small clubs all over the country do now.

Take Cuala they could make choic s between paying a hurling manager and employing a GDO. The choice could be between funding a GDO for the next ten years or developing there faculties. Dublin GAA has an excess over spending of is it 1.5 million why should they not cofund GDA's rather than CP.

At any stage the GAA has limited funds they made a choice to direct funding to Dublin from the early noughties and as well set up a GDA structure that benefited from it more than any other county.

GDO's for geographic area is a cop out. Take it there are 1 GDO officer per 2k children playing GAA in an area. In Dublin this officer is assigned to a club and spends the winter in a school or two schools encouraging kids to play GAA, sporting the better potential footballer or hurler. He liase's with teachers and find the GAA oriented teachers in schools and helps develop there coaching skills. He also during the summer helps develop the coaching skills of underage volunteers coaches and set up coaching programs for them

In any other county these officer'e may have 1-2 large urban centers where a GDO is assigned to 2-3 schools. The real catch is 70% of these GDO' are operating in rural Ireland where a single officer may have 10-15 and more schools in his catchments. Most are not coaching full time but administrating programs. They are trying to find a teacher or a volunteer in a location to help them out. This was a lot easier ten years ago but now because of child protection policies principles of schools are reluctant to volunteer's even if you find one into schools to coach children even if Garda vetted.

Even if these GDO's are coaching a lot of schools see them once a months and during the summer with GDO'S taking 1-2 weeks holidays smaller clubs see them only when GO camps are held at the club, at coaching programs or for a few hours 1-2 times a year.

People think that per capita funding will readdress the balance are deluded they do not understand the present structure. Not having a cut at you or any Dublin GAA supporter the system in place will ensure Dublin Dominance for the next ten year and it has nothing to do with a one in a Generation group of players.

Yes Kerry Mayo or a Northern county may sneak in for an 1-3 football titles over the next decade. I always taught that this Dublin team would fade but it's not visible at present and all pointers are that the team is evolving every year.

Will this help Leitrim or Longford they will still struggle. The GAA need to recognise this and restructure championship into similar structure that hurling has in McCarthy, McDonagh and Ring cups. It needs a structured senior ( Sam) Intermediate and Junior structure. Where ideally 12 teams make up each group. It needs to lose the provincial championships. If it want to throw sops to the I&J competition the cup winner can come back in at the QF stage simulate to McDonagh winners in Hurling.

If Counties can be encouraged to join by all.means yes but county amalgamation is not necessarily the answer because of travelling distances. The Cork Kerry BS would see a player have to travel 3-4 hours for county training. Similar for Galway Mayo. At underage it would require district academy's but a young O Se from Ventry, Declan Barron from Bantry or a young Tim Kennelly would be 3 hours to and from Cork city for elite training, Mallow would be similar. It unlikely that a center of excellence would be set up in Knockagree a village with 2-300 people but more or less the center of the new structure some idiots are spouting.

There are a lot if lads here that like football and the GAA it will follow soccer into the doldrums unless radical action is taken in next 2-3. Years. The window is small for its survival

Lucy8080

Nobody gives a toss about lower/middling counties who seldom if ever get an All-Ireland.

Those Counties who knew they could/would be in with a chance of winning an All-Ireland, never gave a toss for the also rans.

Every-one of those Counties (who won/ were in with a chance every year) never raised a whisper about the also rans. This was when "The Dubs" were a laughing stock.

Beating The Dubs in any Code/level of the sport ,was an added celebration for those Counties!

The also rans?.....If people/journalists were standing up for them (the also rans) decade's ago...I would take their views seriously .

Nobody complained about Pat Spillane having 8 All Ireland medals.

ClanofLams

ooter wrote: »

Either is repeating the statement that the Dublin senior hurlers will win an all Ireland, some saying they will eventually start cleaning up. The likelihood of this happening is very very low, they've gone backwards since 2013

It is actually, the same data which reflects huge growth in juvenile hurling over the last decade.

We can all agree that the bigger your playing pool the higher your chances of success right?

blanch152

tritium wrote: »

Do you think Meath should get the exact same development money as dublin? If yes, why given it would mean a vastly disparity In Meaths favour in terms of funding available per person. If no, how should it be allocated- per capita Meath get more than dublin at present and it’s gone up by 30%. How much more do you actually want?

Frankly I’ve shag all sympathy at this point on the playing numbers or the sponsorship. On the playing numbers I’m blue in the face pointing out you need to leverage the “blow in” and their kids and all I get (1 poster in particular) is “sure that would never work, you just don’t understand” . The same mindset that laughed at Dublin when they set out their plans. Too much work to make it happen I guess.

On the sponsorship we have a mindset here like the lady in Kildare, looking for her counties cut - no one willing to look at the journey dublin took, from getting a few bob from Arnotts to having major international sponsors. No one is bothered to ask how their county could do better. Meath with a rich GAA tradition, Kildare with a slew of multinationals who have huge advertising budgets,

You sit right next door to the capital. DCU is on your ****ing doorstep basically. Whatever about the complaints of Mayo folk about long journeys , you can probably get to abbotstown from Navan quicker than I can when you factor traffic. It’s a 30 minute journey on google maps at the moment. Kildare have Maynooth sitting there, from Naas they have a 29 minute journey to abbotstown at the moment.

There’s no point arguing with you because it’s all just pathetic excuses on your side for your county not punching at it’s weight. Not just wrt dublin, with respect to any decent top 5 football team. And it’s easier to blame everyone else than ask your county board to get their **** together.

Excellent points. If this was the 1970s, Kildare and Meath could have the excuse of no back door.

However, with the back door and Super 8s, both Kildare and Meath should be in the Super 8s every year, with the chance of winning the All-Ireland, as the resources in population and funding are there to put them above other counties. That they are not, is a failure of the county boards. You only need to look at the work that a county like Monaghan have done to be consistently there.

ClanofLams

tritium wrote: »

Split won’t happen for a very simple reason. Very few counties will see any point. The only counties that will see any benefit would be a small tier just below dublin. The rest are either Dublin or counties who got used to being hockied by the bigger counties decades ago- doesn’t really matter to them whether it’s dublin, Mayo or Kerry giving them a trimming. Because the idea of an historical level playing field is frankly a myth.

I think Leinster counties would see some benefit to it. Easy forget now but in early 2000s Kildare, Meath, Laois, Westmeath all won Leinster titles. Louth almost did a decade ago. Of course they would likely have to significantly improve to beat any Dublin team but the gap decreasing substantially may be welcome regardless.

Outside of Leinster, I would say the idea would get a reasonable reception in any county that has reached closing stages of All Ireland in the last twenty years. Of course Kerry Mayo Donegal Tyrone & Galway would most directly benefit but Armagh, Cork, Down, etc have all been in All Ireland finals pretty recently.

The only way it will happen i think is if interest continues to decline and that will likely happen (with exception of first year crowds are allowed post covid) as long as domination continues.

ClanofLams

One positive thing for Dublin that would come out of dividing it is more players getting the chance to play top level football. There are almost certainly players in Dublin who never made a Championship performance who would be stalwarts of their county team in the vast majority of counties.

ShyMets

ClanofLams wrote: »

I think Leinster counties would see some benefit to it. Easy forget now but in early 2000s Kildare, Meath, Laois, Westmeath all won Leinster titles. Louth almost did a decade ago. Of course they would likely have to significantly improve to beat any Dublin team but the gap decreasing substantially may be welcome regardless.

Outside of Leinster, I would say the idea would get a reasonable reception in any county that has reached closing stages of All Ireland in the last twenty years. Of course Kerry Mayo Donegal Tyrone & Galway would most directly benefit but Armagh, Cork, Down, etc have all been in All Ireland finals pretty recently.

The only way it will happen i think is if interest continues to decline and that will likely happen (with exception of first year crowds are allowed post covid) as long as domination continues.

But you're basically admitting that spilting Dublin will help only a small number of teams.

I honestly don't get the logic in this. A split does nothing for the majority of counties

The White Feather

I just saw a breakdown of the Dublin GAA backroom staff. Dublin had 29 and Mayo 18. Dublin have.....

5: Coaches, including performance development, goalkeeper, and gym development.

4: Selectors, including manager Dessie Farrell.

4: Analysts.

3: Physios.

2: Kitmen.

2: Performance consultants.

2: Doctors.

2: Sports therapists.

2: Nutritionists.

1: Media manager.

1: Cameraman.

1: Logistician.

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

GDA funding the way it is structured is of no use to clubs outside of large urban centers. As I posted on club finances the choices smaller clubs have to make. At this stage Dublin clubs and Dublin GAA are able in a position to fund GDA's themselves. Clubs will have to make choices in where they direct there funding just like small clubs all over the country do now.

Take Cuala they could make choic s between paying a hurling manager and employing a GDO. The choice could be between funding a GDO for the next ten years or developing there faculties. Dublin GAA has an excess over spending of is it 1.5 million why should they not cofund GDA's rather than CP.

At any stage the GAA has limited funds they made a choice to direct funding to Dublin from the early noughties and as well set up a GDA structure that benefited from it more than any other county.

I dont see how it is of no use. Smaller clubs should be combining resources in this case.

GDO's for geographic area is a cop out. Take it there are 1 GDO officer per 2k children playing GAA in an area. In Dublin this officer is assigned to a club and spends the winter in a school or two schools encouraging kids to play GAA, sporting the better potential footballer or hurler. He liase's with teachers and find the GAA oriented teachers in schools and helps develop there coaching skills. He also during the summer helps develop the coaching skills of underage volunteers coaches and set up coaching programs for them

In any other county these officer'e may have 1-2 large urban centers where a GDO is assigned to 2-3 schools. The real catch is 70% of these GDO' are operating in rural Ireland where a single officer may have 10-15 and more schools in his catchments. Most are not coaching full time but administrating programs. They are trying to find a teacher or a volunteer in a location to help them out. This was a lot easier ten years ago but now because of child protection policies principles of schools are reluctant to volunteer's even if you find one into schools to coach children even if Garda vetted.

I dont see how its a cop out. These officers shouldnt be limited to 2-3 schools. It should be more. Having a teacher or someone else help out is necessary as you need more than 1 coach if you are coaching 12-15 at a time which would be case in vast majority of schools.

Even if these GDO's are coaching a lot of schools see them once a months and during the summer with GDO'S taking 1-2 weeks holidays smaller clubs see them only when GO camps are held at the club, at coaching programs or for a few hours 1-2 times a year.

People think that per capita funding will readdress the balance are deluded they do not understand the present structure. Not having a cut at you or any Dublin GAA supporter the system in place will ensure Dublin Dominance for the next ten year and it has nothing to do with a one in a Generation group of players.

Once a month is still far better than nothing and the summer time isnt really the problem as the clubs are up and running then and the kids are doing 2 training sessions a week and a match every few weeks and then there is the summer camps.

Yes Kerry Mayo or a Northern county may sneak in for an 1-3 football titles over the next decade. I always taught that this Dublin team would fade but it's not visible at present and all pointers are that the team is evolving every year.

Will this help Leitrim or Longford they will still struggle. The GAA need to recognise this and restructure championship into similar structure that hurling has in McCarthy, McDonagh and Ring cups. It needs a structured senior ( Sam) Intermediate and Junior structure. Where ideally 12 teams make up each group. It needs to lose the provincial championships. If it want to throw sops to the I&J competition the cup winner can come back in at the QF stage simulate to McDonagh winners in Hurling.

Loads of people say the provincial competitions need to go. They dont. So many weekends of the inter county season have very few games on. If you change the season and condense how long it takes for some competitions to be played you can easily keep the provincial competitions. Tipps win this year and the similar wins from counties winning for first time ever, first time in long time is exactly why they should be kept.

ooter

The White Feather wrote: »

I just saw a breakdown of the Dublin GAA backroom staff. Dublin had 29 and Mayo 18. Dublin have.....

5: Coaches, including performance development, goalkeeper, and gym development.

4: Selectors, including manager Dessie Farrell.

4: Analysts.

3: Physios.

2: Kitmen.

2: Performance consultants.

2: Doctors.

2: Sports therapists.

2: Nutritionists.

1: Media manager.

1: Cameraman.

1: Logistician.

Is that just for the senior footballers or have you a breakdown of the hurling backroom team?

StupidLikeAFox

blanch152 wrote: »

You only need to look at the work that a county like Monaghan have done to be consistently there.

Not sure what your point is here. Point out the huge favouritism that Dublin have been consistently receiving for a generation, the incredible disparity in terms of the resources available and the response is "Sure monaghan are doing ok for themselves"

ClanofLams

ShyMets wrote: »

But you're basically admitting that spilting Dublin will help only a small number of teams.

I honestly don't get the logic in this. A split does nothing for the majority of counties

I think there's the possibility to restore a competitive Leinster championship where if Laois or Westmeath have a very good crop they can win. It will remain very rare, but the importance of a glimmer of hope it provides for more days out like they had in 2000s shouldn't be underestimated. Kildare and Meath should be competitive on a regular basis, not saying they don't have work to do.

Outside of Leinster I think something like maybe 10/11 different counties have won the All Ireland in the last three decades (which includes a decade Dublin almost entirely dominated) and 4/5 other counties have made finals.

So I wouldn't agree at that it only improves things for a small number of counties, it's entirely possible for example that if Down have a very good crop again in the next decade as they has in the 1990s and in 2010 when they lost by a point they could be competitive in an All Ireland final.

ooter

Kerry minor footballers have just win their 8th Munster title in a row, surely the gaa need to do something about this dominance.

LuasSimon

Shows how bad it’s got , the Dublin Team visited the children’s hospital today and many of the staff were heard to mutter , not the Dublin team with the Sam Maguire again !

tritium

ClanofLams wrote: »

I think there's the possibility to restore a competitive Leinster championship where if Laois or Westmeath have a very good crop they can win. It will remain very rare, but the importance of a glimmer of hope it provides for more days out like they had in 2000s shouldn't be underestimated. Kildare and Meath should be competitive on a regular basis, not saying they don't have work to do.

Outside of Leinster I think something like maybe 10/11 different counties have won the All Ireland in the last three decades (which includes a decade Dublin almost entirely dominated) and 4/5 other counties have made finals.

So I wouldn't agree at that it only improves things for a small number of counties, it's entirely possible for example that if Down have a very good crop again in the next decade as they has in the 1990s and in 2010 when they lost by a point they could be competitive in an All Ireland final.

10 or 11? Are you having a laugh with statistics there? The o ly competitive window in that 30 years was the 90s, largely because the great Kerry and dublin teams had disappeared and ulster was on the rise. In the 90s Kerry and dublin both won a single AI, which is an outlier. In the 21 years since between them they’ve won 14, and without Micky Harte it would be more like 17

You’re seriously delusional if you trying to paint the last 30 years as a model to follow, or pretend that the AI was an aspiration for smaller teams pre this dublin team. I’ve already shown that in the last two decades how much competitiveness each province had. Not surprisingly it’s not Leinster that looks dead and buried by that yardstick

ooter

How many will it take before people finally admit there's a problem, 10, 12, 15?
The Munster minor championship is on its way to ruination if something is not done.

munster87

Lexie Icy Tremor wrote: »

You're still being an idiot with your asinine points I see

That’s a bit harsh on idiots

ClanofLams

tritium wrote: »

10 or 11? Are you having a laugh with statistics there? The o ly competitive window in that 30 years was the 90s, largely because the great Kerry and dublin teams had disappeared and ulster was on the rise. In the 90s Kerry and dublin both won a single AI, which is an outlier. In the 21 years since between them they’ve won 14, and without Micky Harte it would be more like 17

You’re seriously delusional if you trying to paint the last 30 years as a model to follow, or pretend that the AI was an aspiration for smaller teams pre this dublin team. I’ve already shown that in the last two decades how much competitiveness each province had. Not surprisingly it’s not Leinster that looks dead and buried by that yardstick

Cork,Down,Donegal, Derry, Dublin, Meath, Kerry, Galway, Armagh, Tyrone - ten teams, all won All Irelands in the last three decades. It was an estimate off the top of my head. Important to say too there is far more interest in competitive championships even in the smaller counties who are unlikely to be contesting them - see tv viewership.

Two counties won their first All Ireland in the 1990s, two counties won their first All Ireland in the 2000s.

You're seriously delusional if you think the next three decades under the current structures will see anything less than Dublin winning 25 titles. They have lost two championship games in ten years, they are growing the gap and the data reflects their player base advantage is growing considerably.

That data is far superior evidence than posters throwing out old cliches about sporting cycles and ups and downs or nonsense about how Michael Fitzsimons (excellent defender notwithstanding) will be difficult to replace when Dublin have managed to replace peak Rory O'Carroll, peak Jack McCaffrey, Paul Flynn, Connolly, the Brogans etc and not miss a step.

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rubbish



And more Rubbish



And even more rubbish

Are you able to counter what i posted? Its a discussion forum so counter what i said.
Why should these officers be limited to very few schools.
Once a month is far better than nothing and summer time has the kids training twice a week within the clubs so its not there thats the issue.
And condensing the provincial championships would be great it takes far too long for a small number of games be played...

Bass Reeves

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Are you able to counter what i posted? Its a discussion forum so counter what i said.
Why should these officers be limited to very few schools.
Once a month is far better than nothing and summer time has the kids training twice a week within the clubs so its not there thats the issue.
And condensing the provincial championships would be great it takes far too long for a small number of games be played...

There is you answer

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is you answer

You havent answered or countered anything else i posted. can you try that or are you able to?

Bass Reeves

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You havent answered or countered anything else i posted. can you try that or are you able to?

Have you ever coached or administrated at club level

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Have you ever coached or administrated at club level

Done some coaching. Helped coach u6/8s a few years back. Most of my coaching experience is in rugby and bit in other sports.
You still havent been able to counter anything that i said earlier. Can you try that?

Bass Reeves

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Done some coaching. Helped coach u6/8s a few years back. Most of my coaching experience is in rugby and bit in other sports.
You still havent been able to counter anything that i said earlier. Can you try that?

Well if you have ever coached at any sport at any level once a month is rubbish

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well if you have ever coached at any sport at any level once a month is rubbish

The games development staff cant be the only people coaching in a school/club of a team. They are there to assist those already coaching teams. Once a month is fine to oversee what the coaches are doing and help them with best practice etc. These games development officers are not there to coach lots of teams within clubs etc. they are in place to help the coaches in place do a better job

Bass Reeves

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The games development staff cant be the only people coaching in a school/club of a team. They are there to assist those already coaching teams. Once a month is fine to oversee what the coaches are doing and help them with best practice etc. These games development officers are not there to coach lots of teams within clubs etc. they are in place to help the coaches in place do a better job

In any county outside Dublin yes in Dublin Rubbish stop digging the hole is getting deeper

The Lost Sheep

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In any county outside Dublin yes in Dublin Rubbish stop digging the hole is getting deeper

Are you able to counter what ive said as the only thing you said so far is rubbish. Can you counter what ive said with backed up points or at least anything other than saying rubbish

tritium

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Well if you have ever coached at any sport at any level once a month is rubbish

How often do you think the gdo in the big dublin clubs is seen by any particular group? Ours has been helpful with the likes of YouTube videos for the volunteer mentors but tbh it’s not as if the groups I’m involved with get his time that regularly. He’s busy in the schools and so on alright as it should be but he’s by no means available to everyone all the time

I somehow get the idea that some posters have this idea that dublin clubs are like training machines with professional coaches spending hours every week with each kid. It’s nothing of the kind, nor can it be- whether you have 500 kids spread across one group or 5 groups theres still only so much time available and no club has a surplus of coaches that I’m aware of