The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

The high horse brigade

Dublin will win 10 in a row, football is ruined when there's a monster that cannot be beaten drumming out 10 point hidings to everyone else. I'm not sure how you fix it

Mantis Toboggan

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Dublin will win 10 in a row, football is ruined when there's a monster that cannot be beaten drumming out 10 point hidings to everyone else. I'm not sure how you fix it

Play the all Ireland football Final somewhere other than in Dublin. Take the home advantage away. If the final was in Killarney I'd have it a 50/50.

The high horse brigade

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Play the all Ireland football Final somewhere other than in Dublin. Take the home advantage away. If the final was in Killarney I'd have it a 50/50.

It's not just home advantage. See what Chris Barrett has to go through to be part of the Mayo panel
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/mayo-s-chris-barrett-balancing-work-and-play-for-gaa-not-sustainable-any-more-1.3981640

salmocab

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's not just home advantage. See what Chris Barrett has to go through to be part of the Mayo panel
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/mayo-s-chris-barrett-balancing-work-and-play-for-gaa-not-sustainable-any-more-1.3981640

People having to commute is nothing to do with the GAA and there is nothing they can do about it. That’s just a pain for some players.

The high horse brigade

salmocab wrote: »

People having to commute is nothing to do with the GAA and there is nothing they can do about it. That’s just a pain for some players.

They can make it semi-professional and start rewarding players in some way for their efforts

salmocab

The high horse brigade wrote: »

They can make it semi-professional and start rewarding players in some way for their efforts

Amazingly this is exactly the thing that should be in the stickies thread that everyone gave out about as it’s nothing to do with Dublin

The high horse brigade

salmocab wrote: »

Amazingly this is exactly the thing that should be in the stickies thread that everyone gave out about as it’s nothing to do with Dublin

It's one of the many advantages the Dubs have that leads to this total dominance. Other counties need help to get to the professional level Dublin are at

Blueshoe

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's one of the many advantages the Dubs have that leads to this total dominance

Why don't they dominate in hurling too or at least reach semi final stage

salmocab

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It's one of the many advantages the Dubs have that leads to this total dominance

It’s definitely an advantage and a big one but there is nothing that could be done about it. People live and work where they need to. This isn’t a GAA issue though.

The high horse brigade

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why don't they dominate in hurling too or at least reach semi final stage

I don't now, you tell me? Are you trying to deny there's a huge dominance in football or a multitude of advantages?

Donnielighto

salmocab wrote: »

People having to commute is nothing to do with the GAA and there is nothing they can do about it. That’s just a pain for some players.

True but it's a factor. Dublin are dominant for a number of reasons.

Firstly they are incredibly well run as a GAA organisation and the senior football team specifically. Coupled with the competent management they have a huge player base relative to other counties. Even allowing for the primacy of rugby and soccer in some areas the player numbers are much larger than any other county providing a larger player pool with more depth.
Due to the size of clubs a large number of them are able to field multiple teams this helps ensure club players are playing at or near the appropriate level which helps progression.

The player numbers have been helped by the growth of Dublin population overall but in the early 2000s the targeted development of the game in Dublin as a response to soccer and possibly rugby was very successful the fruits of which are being seen now and probably continuing. With the influx of people from outside of Dublin to the suburbs some newer families may have more GAA tendencies proportionately.

Being the biggest market in GAA means Dublin are very attractive and valuable for marketing and sponsorship. Both the GAA and Dublin themselves are aware of this and while Dublin make their own well worked deals they GAA get plenty of money into Central coffers. The money allows for development programmes and the best training treatment etc needed.

So Dublin has a strong and growing GAA culture, large and increasing population, the most resources and is well run on a macro level and everything directly related to on-field stuff. Basically once Dublin stay the course in terms of how they are run from the top down they should dominate football. It would need a few barren years talent-wise and a very good crop in another well run and financed county to challenge and even then Dublin's depth is ridiculous.

Blueshoe

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I don't now, you tell me? Are you trying to deny there's a huge dominance in football or unfair advantages?

Obviously they are dominating football now. But it won't last forever. Kerry have won the last 5 minor championships in a row and Dublin haven't won one since 2012. It's cyclical like most things.
It will end eventually. Golden crop of players now.

Donnielighto

Blueshoe wrote: »

Why don't they dominate in hurling too or at least reach semi final stage

Dont have the playerbase. Basically just colaiste eoin (might eb wrong on the school name) plays it I think, they are excellent though but at around 1400 students not enough. If the game takes off and it seems to be then I could see Dublin challenging very quickly. It will need to be in primary schools though and those player will need to come through to have players who had it from young enough.

jr86

Poll needed - how many in a row? :pac:

I'll go a tentative 10 for now. To be re-assessed in 3 years

As for the final. A conservative 8-10 point win prediction. Absolutely buzzing for it now :pac:

Blueshoe

Donnielighto wrote: »

Dont have the playerbase. Basically just colaiste eoin (might eb wrong on the school name) plays it I think, they are excellent though but at around 1400 students not enough. If the game takes off and it seems to be then I could see Dublin challenging very quickly. It will need to be in primary schools though and those player will need to come through to have players who had it from young enough.

There are 16 senior hurling clubs in Dublin.

The high horse brigade

Blueshoe wrote: »

Obviously they are dominating football now. But it won't last forever. Kerry have won the last 5 minor championships in a row and Dublin haven't won one since 2012. It's cyclical like most things.
It will end eventually. Golden crop of players now.

I'm not sure it'll fall off, we could easily see 10 in a row with the talent they have coming through year after year. That's going to cause issues, already is.

Donnielighto

Blueshoe wrote: »

There are 16 senior hurling clubs in Dublin.

And the county team is improving but they are 16 Dublin senior clubs I don't know if that would be the same quality as other counties. Don't ballyboden dominate every year and have only recently started performing in Leinster. Depth is improving but not there yet.

jr86

Donnielighto wrote: »

And the county team is improving but they are 16 Dublin senior clubs I don't know if that would be the same quality as other counties. Don't ballyboden dominate every year and have only recently started performing in Leinster. Depth is improving but not there yet.

Well not exactly... Cuala won 2 all irelands in a row 2017 and 18!!

Blueshoe

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I'm not sure it'll fall off, we could easily see 10 in a row with the talent they have coming through year after year. That's going to cause issues, already is.

Boylesports will give you 12/1 on 10 in a row.
No chance of it happening.

As I said Kerry have won 5 minor championships in a row. Dublin haven't won one since 2012.
It's cyclical

salmocab

Donnielighto wrote: »

And the county team is improving but they are 16 Dublin senior clubs I don't know if that would be the same quality as other counties. Don't ballyboden dominate every year and have only recently started performing in Leinster. Depth is improving but not there yet.

Think cuala might have the quality of a lot of top clubs

Blueshoe

Donnielighto wrote: »

And the county team is improving but they are 16 Dublin senior clubs I don't know if that would be the same quality as other counties. Don't ballyboden dominate every year and have only recently started performing in Leinster. Depth is improving but not there yet.

Your knowledge of Dublin hurling is outdated. No offense intended.

Ballyboden won in 2018 and hadn't won a championship for 5 years before that

The high horse brigade

Blueshoe wrote: »

Boylesports will give you 12/1 on 10 in a row.
No chance of it happening.

As I said Kerry have won 5 minor championships in a row. Dublin haven't won one since 2012.
It's cyclical

Ye'r like flat earthers!
Dublin are a professional outfit. Don't think i'm knocking it, it's a credit to you. There's a need to put a huge focus on getting other counties to the same professional level as Dublin

Donnielighto

jr86 wrote: »

Well not exactly... Cuala won 2 all irelands in a row 2017 and 18!!

You're right, ballyboden haven't been dominant for a while. At any rate as I said they are improving at a county level. The question was why don't they dominate in hurling, I think playerbase and the age players start, the player numbers are improving but I do feel that you'll see a big upsurge when the guys who got a chance to play in primary come through. There are a lot more schools playing it now aren't there?

Donnielighto

Blueshoe wrote: »

Your knowledge of Dublin hurling is outdated. No offense intended.

Ballyboden won in 2018 and hadn't won a championship for 5 years before that

Yeah it is, Jesus it doesn't feel that long ago that they were always winning. Rest stands though, see clarification above.

ToBeFrank123

Gaelic football is in a GAA led death spiral at this stage.
Dublin dominance is a symptom of incompetent leadership.
While its not the fault of Dublin, the influence of Dublin on GAA thinking and planning is wholly disproportionate. The GAA became obsessed with helping Dublin at the start of the millenium and it was only a matter of time before the millions pumped in translated into senior mens, club, u21 and ladies success and/or dominance.

The GAA created a monster and now are unable to tame or reverse the problem. So the death spiral will continue indefinately with falling interest and attendences.

When you financially dope one county above all others you destroy the competitiveness of the sport.

Blueshoe

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Ye'r like flat earthers!
Dublin are a professional outfit. Don't think i'm knocking it, it's a credit to you. There's a need to put a huge focus on getting other counties to the same professional level as Dublin

Im from Westmeath!! Dublin are as close to a professional outfit as a gaa team can be but they haven't won anything underage in years. Kerry will top them in the next 2 or 3 years. They have some serious talent coming through.

Daz_

Blueshoe wrote: »

Boylesports will give you 12/1 on 10 in a row.
No chance of it happening.

As I said Kerry have won 5 minor championships in a row. Dublin haven't won one since 2012.
It's cyclical

Maybe that shows that minor is a bit more down to graft and a level playing field . Once they get older and get the professional treatment and meals delivered etc they will become part of the machine .

LeinsterDub

Donnielighto wrote: »

Dont have the playerbase. Basically just colaiste eoin (might eb wrong on the school name) plays it I think, they are excellent though but at around 1400 students not enough. If the game takes off and it seems to be then I could see Dublin challenging very quickly. It will need to be in primary schools though and those player will need to come through to have players who had it from young enough.

You're level of ignorance is is simply outstanding

Trampas

Why doesn’t barret get a job that’s involves working from home or get a job nearer to Mayo.

Kildare, Meath etc players could easily working in Dublin and have less of a commute than a Dublin player working in Dublin.

It is always someone else’s fault and never yours

blanch152

Donnielighto wrote: »

And the county team is improving but they are 16 Dublin senior clubs I don't know if that would be the same quality as other counties. Don't ballyboden dominate every year and have only recently started performing in Leinster. Depth is improving but not there yet.

6 different clubs have won this century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Tipperary, six different clubs have won this century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Senior_Hurling_Championship

Thurles Sarsfields with 8 have been more dominant than Ballyboden with seven.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Kilkenny it has been seven, with Ballyhale as dominant with seven as Ballyboden in Dublin.

One of the things that most annoys Dublin fans on this forum is the ignorance displayed both about the county team and the clubs within the county. Anyone with a small bit of knowledge about the club hurling scene, or who took five minutes to check wouldn't have posted the above.

If you are going to construct an argument against Dublin, at least get the facts correct, and when it comes to the money, include all the money all of the counties get, and then adjust it per capita.

ToBeFrank123

Blueshoe wrote: »

Obviously they are dominating football now. But it won't last forever. Kerry have won the last 5 minor championships in a row and Dublin haven't won one since 2012. It's cyclical like most things.
It will end eventually. Golden crop of players now.

There is nothing cyclical about Dublin's current dominance. The current starting forward line is almost unrecognisable to the one in 2011 or even 2013. Most of their older defenders still have 5 years left in them. Most of the younger players like O'Callaghan, 10. They've also won 4 U21 AIs in the last decade, more than any other county.

Blueshoe

blanch152 wrote: »

6 different clubs have won this century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Tipperary, six different clubs have won this century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Senior_Hurling_Championship

Thurles Sarsfields with 8 have been more dominant than Ballyboden with seven.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Kilkenny it has been seven, with Ballyhale as dominant with seven as Ballyboden in Dublin.

One of the things that most annoys Dublin fans on this forum is the ignorance displayed both about the county team and the clubs within the county. Anyone with a small bit of knowledge about the club hurling scene, or who took five minutes to check wouldn't have posted the above.

If you are going to construct an argument against Dublin, at least get the facts correct, and when it comes to the money, include all the money all of the counties get, and then adjust it per capita.

I think he just genuinely didn't know to be honest .

salmocab

blanch152 wrote: »

6 different clubs have won this century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Tipperary, six different clubs have won this century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipperary_Senior_Hurling_Championship

Thurles Sarsfields with 8 have been more dominant than Ballyboden with seven.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkenny_Senior_Hurling_Championship

In Kilkenny it has been seven, with Ballyhale as dominant with seven as Ballyboden in Dublin.

One of the things that most annoys Dublin fans on this forum is the ignorance displayed both about the county team and the clubs within the county. Anyone with a small bit of knowledge about the club hurling scene, or who took five minutes to check wouldn't have posted the above.

If you are going to construct an argument against Dublin, at least get the facts correct, and when it comes to the money, include all the money all of the counties get, and then adjust it per capita.

In fairness the poster admitted his mistake and lack of knowledge

Bonniedog

As a mainly hurling person, much as it pains me to say it, Dublin will never be one of the top hurling counties.

Game has always been popular and standard has improved as evidenced by clubs, and becoming more competitive at inter county, but football will always be the dominant sport player wise and support wise.

If I was to make a reverse comparison, it would be with Tipp who have had decent underage and senior football teams (far more competitive in fact at underage football than Dublin underage hurlers) but up against a similar dominant culture.

Even dual club senior will become rare. not beyond possibility that Cuala might win senior football before another hurling!

Blueshoe

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There is nothing cyclical about Dublin's current dominance. The current starting forward line is almost unrecognisable to the one in 2011 or even 2013. Most of their older defenders still have 5 years left in them. Most of the younger players like O'Callaghan, 10. They've also won 4 U21 AIs in the last decade, more than any other county.

There are no other players "like o Callaghan". He like David Clifford is a level above. Saying that did I hear that either the minors or u21s have a superstar in the making full forward?

I wasn't aware of the U21 results. I just looked at minor level.
Wouldn't all counties line ups be different now than in 2011 or 2013 though? With the exception of the most outstanding players. Ie Tj Reid on Kilkenny's hurling team.

Would you chance the 10 in a row @ 12/1 from the bookies? Put your money where your mouth is.
If you are right you win a few Bob. Happy days

PressRun

Trampas wrote: »

Why doesn’t barret get a job that’s involves working from home or get a job nearer to Mayo.

Don't really give a **** about this topic, but this is an astoundingly stupid question and shows an incredibly out of touch view of the reality of rural Ireland.

salmocab

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Despite making a complete fool of themselves they feel that the rest of their point stands? They shouldn't post here again after making that much of an arse of themselves.

Ah look this thread is destined to be a car crash from the off full of rants. The guy is obviously out of date with his knowledge and admitted as much. Plenty won’t do that when they’re corrected.

blanch152

Blueshoe wrote: »

I think he just genuinely didn't know to be honest .

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness the poster admitted his mistake and lack of knowledge

This is what happens all the time though. Someone with zero knowledge of the Dublin club scene takes off on an ill-informed rant about Dublin's advantages.

99% of the people who talk about Dublin's financial advantages haven't a clue about the amount of activity at underage level in Dublin and the amount of work put into looking after every kid who wants to play.

Donnielighto

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You're level of ignorance is is simply outstanding

Did you read the thread, info is a few years out of date acknowledged and I've clarified why is see they aren't dominant now, they are effectively further along than I thought they were.

Blueshoe

Didn't Dublin win a few of the finals by only a point and one after a replay?

Breaston Plants

At the end of the day it's 15 v 15 on the pitch. It's up to others to catch up with them. Fair play to them, best team ever.

Donnielighto

blanch152 wrote: »

This is what happens all the time though. Someone with zero knowledge of the Dublin club scene takes off on an ill-informed rant about Dublin's advantages.

99% of the people who talk about Dublin's financial advantages haven't a clue about the amount of activity at underage level in Dublin and the amount of work put into looking after every kid who wants to play.

In fairness my info was out of date as opposed to being totally wrong and I've already stated Dublin are incredibly well run as an organisation. Dublin are better resources but also better run, the money isn't being wasted. Tbh I can see Dublin becoming dominant in hurling too.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Breaston Plants wrote: »

At the end of the day it's 15 v 15 on the pitch. It's up to others to catch up with them. Fair play to them, best team ever.

The problem with this is that Dublin are in a unique position to perpetuate dominance.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There is nothing cyclical about Dublin's current dominance. The current starting forward line is almost unrecognisable to the one in 2011 or even 2013. Most of their older defenders still have 5 years left in them. Most of the younger players like O'Callaghan, 10. They've also won 4 U21 AIs in the last decade, more than any other county.

I have already posted the facts in another thread, but here they are again for ease of reference.

From the 21 players that played in the 2015 final, there has only been Bastick, Alan Brogan and Paul Flynn who have left the panel. Two of the unused subs are gone - Brady and Savage - but the other three unused subs are still on the panel, meaning that 21 of the 26 named for the 2015 All-Ireland final are still involved with Dublin.

How many of the Kerry team that played that day will play on the 1st of September? Well, I don’t think we will see Aidan O’Mahony, Brendan Kealy, Fionan Fitzgerald, Jonathon Lyne, Peter Crowley, Anthony Maher, Johnny Buckley, Donncha Walsh, Colm Cooper, James O’Donoghue, Brian Kelly, Kieran Donaghy, Bryan Sheehan, Barry John Keane, Darren O’Sullivan or Paul Galvin, will we? That is 16 of the Kerry 26 in 2015 who I don’t expect to see anywhere near the Kerry 26 on the 1st September (I am happy to be corrected if I have got one wrong).

Apart from the five who I mentioned earlier, three others from the Dublin 26 in 2015 didn’t make the squad last Saturday - Bernard Brogan, Rory O’Carroll and Darren Daly - which meant that remarkably 18 of the 26 who were in the 26-man Dublin squad for the 2015 All-Ireland final were still in the squad last Saturday. Only around 10 of that Kerry squad survive.

If there is one thing that you can say about this Dublin team is that it hasn’t changed anywhere near as quickly or as much as its rivals. That means when the end comes, it will come quickly, as they will have to replace quite a few at the same time.

These are the facts.

To give another example, of the Mayo team that started the 2012 All-Ireland final, there are only five who started last Saturday - Keegan, Vaughan, Boyle, Aidan O'Shea and Cillian O'Connor. All teams evolve. Dublin's team has actually evolved less than any other of the big counties.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Blueshoe wrote: »

Didn't Dublin win a few of the finals by only a point and one after a replay?

They did. However, they seem to be more dominant now. Maybe Kerry will beat them, or at least come close, bit I suspect not.

The high horse brigade

Blueshoe wrote: »

Didn't Dublin win a few of the finals by only a point and one after a replay?

Yes, and they are now a level above the level they were at then. They've gone from winning by a point to 10 point annihilation

ToBeFrank123

While Dublin hurling have had some notable successes and also embarrassing collapases, overall the trend is upward since about 2010, in keeping with upward trend across the board in Dublin GAA.

After rapid progress, its levelled off a bit.

But the point is there is now a strong platform to push on further.

Dublin hurling today is light years ahead of where it was 20 years ago.

So if that trend continues where will they be 20 years from now?

Given they have more money, a bigger population and vastly more GDOs than everyone else, its not hard to see them competing and winning hurling AIs on a regular basis.

blanch152

Donnielighto wrote: »

In fairness my info was out of date as opposed to being totally wrong and I've already stated Dublin are incredibly well run as an organisation. Dublin are better resources but also better run, the money isn't being wasted. Tbh I can see Dublin becoming dominant in hurling too.

Your argument was that only a few hurling clubs in Dublin were in with any chance of being successful and that one club dominated and this was somehow different to elsewhere. When the facts were examined, there was little difference between the Dublin, Tipperary and Kilkenny championships.

odyssey06

No back door.
No super 8s.
More chance of an upset.

Play semi finals away from Croke Park.
Cant see the GAA moving finals.

Reduce subs to 3.
After 2 black cards next one is a red or sin bin.
Basically reduce the squad impact.

These are all back of the envelope tinkering ideas... only one being Dublin football specific.

Blueshoe

Donnielighto wrote: »

In fairness my info was out of date as opposed to being totally wrong and I've already stated Dublin are incredibly well run as an organisation. Dublin are better resources but also better run, the money isn't being wasted. Tbh I can see Dublin becoming dominant in hurling too.

Tip down to Kilkenny and you will see every young lad with a hurl in his hand all day everyday wherever possible. It's a culture down there. Money might bridge the gap for Dublin bbut the talent isn't there. That is if they continue to receive the same amount of funds long term.

I'm sure it's like that in Dublin only with footballs instead