The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Sheep breeder

A lot of Dublin’s success at the moment is down to Jim Gavin and his back room team how they get the most out of the players, Brian Cody has done this with Kilkenny for so long now. Both have players serving apprenticeship to the team and know how to wait their turn. The way the game is played is simple and this thing about sweepers etc is all in the head and at the end of the day the team that scores the most win and to do that you need scoring forwards. How many teams haven’t got scoring forwards.
The gaa at grass roots drive the wheel in every club with good coaching and every kid getting game time. The players that make county teams will tell you it was the underage coaching that made them.
The biggest thing holding clubs and counties back is the management structures, with too many in it for themselves and not the good of team. How many clubs have the chairman’s Jonny having to be on the senior team and chairman’s club players first pick on the county team. Look at that with Mayo and one club dictating who is in the goal.

BonnieSituation

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah the old 15 against 15 argument.
And the get your house in order line.

Its like Man City telling Swindon Town to get their house in order, 11 v 11 and so on.

Laughable.

Can you answer ANY of the questions put to you questioning your assertions about Dublin?

How was CP handed to us?

Why isn't the financial mismanagement in other counties not important to you if as you claim funding for Dublin creates an uneven playing field? Surely that cash would be better spent on Longford and Waterford and they might do something sometime...

Strumms

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Dublin were bailed out far more. A free stadium handed to them worth at least 300 million to play home games at.
And 13 times the gdf of Cork.

What Cork received was small fry in comparison and a pittance in gdf, crumbs from the GAAs table after Dublin had been well looked after.

The thread is about Dublin by the way.

A stadium, built to facilitate football and hurling, not Dublin or indeed any county . The fact that when Dublin play there is a suitably built facility to facilitate both their large enthusiastic and loyal fan base and the same of whichever county will be providing the opposition is of great credit to the GAA.

ClanofLams

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And the second you do that you lose EVERY Dublin supporter.

Sure while you're splitting us, amalgamate all the Ulster counties for hurling and Sligo and Leitrim should be one team as well. Not to mention Longford and Westmeath. Why not.

Why don't we investigate why the likes of Louth, Wicklow, Kildare etc haven't done much in nearly a century or why Cork and Galway are disgracefully underachieving given their resources?

They're the true scandals of the GAA.

Galway has a population of 250k, it’s very difficult to be a dual county of that base. We do have the same advantages Dublin and Cork have, no reason not to be able to study and work here.

Galway senior footballers have certainly under achieved in the last decade, strangely there hasn’t been much of an issue with juvenile success, two u21s in that time but it hasn’t translated at senior level, last year aside.

ToBeFrank123

Sheep breeder wrote: »

A lot of Dublin’s success at the moment is down to Jim Gavin and his back room team how they get the most out of the players, Brian Cody has done this with Kilkenny for so long now. Both have players serving apprenticeship to the team and know how to wait their turn. The way the game is played is simple and this thing about sweepers etc is all in the head and at the end of the day the team that scores the most win and to do that you need scoring forwards. How many teams haven’t got scoring forwards.
The gaa at grass roots drive the wheel in every club with good coaching and every kid getting game time. The players that make county teams will tell you it was the underage coaching that made them.
The biggest thing holding clubs and counties back is the management structures, with too many in it for themselves and not the good of team. How many clubs have the chairman’s Jonny having to be on the senior team and chairman’s club players first pick on the county team. Look at that with Mayo and one club dictating who is in the goal.

And the success of their u21s?
Ladies?
Hurlers?
Clubs?

Also down to Jim Gavin?

Give us a break. No-one is buying the "its all down to Jim Gavin" line anymore. Not when its across all sectors of Dublin GAA including those he has nothing to do with.

Sheep breeder

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on now a minute Dublin had a great collection of hurlers only six years ago when Dalo was in charge - a lensiter tile a league and an AI semi final.
Once that team broke up the core was not replaced.

How can you say finances cause Dublin's success in football then conveniently say it because the hurlers have a low base!?
They arguably should have beaten Cork in 2013 to get to the AI final. (Dwyer got sent off)
By your logic all the money rolling in should have propelled them to the next level?
Did that Cork fella spend it wrong when he was managing the Dublin hurlers after Dalo?

Cuala is an an anomaly of a hurling club in Dublin - Dalkey - they are an oasis surrounded by GAA wasteland.
Dalkey population of just over 8k

Mick Holden was an exception to the rule in the 70's as well.

Yes and Cuala won a championship in early 2000 with 3/4 Wicklow players to strengthen the team and have done a lot of work to get to where they are now and all down to good structures and coaching.

Strabanimal

Sheep breeder wrote: »

A lot of Dublin’s success at the moment is down to Jim Gavin and his back room team how they get the most out of the players, Brian Cody has done this with Kilkenny for so long now. Both have players serving apprenticeship to the team and know how to wait their turn. The way the game is played is simple and this thing about sweepers etc is all in the head and at the end of the day the team that scores the most win and to do that you need scoring forwards. How many teams haven’t got scoring forwards.
The gaa at grass roots drive the wheel in every club with good coaching and every kid getting game time. The players that make county teams will tell you it was the underage coaching that made them.
The biggest thing holding clubs and counties back is the management structures, with too many in it for themselves and not the good of team. How many clubs have the chairman’s Jonny having to be on the senior team and chairman’s club players first pick on the county team. Look at that with Mayo and one club dictating who is in the goal.

I'm sorry but MH and his staff are far better. Dublin have top tier players in every position.

Put Jim in charge of New York and see how he'd do.

ToBeFrank123

Strumms wrote: »

A stadium, built to facilitate football and hurling, not Dublin or indeed any county . The fact that when Dublin play there is a suitably built facility to facilitate both their large enthusiastic and loyal fan base and the same of whichever county will be providing the opposition is of great credit to the GAA.

The point is that Dublin did not have to fund a huge stadium to play their home games at. This is a massive advantage to any county and means they can use the money saved elsewhere.

BonnieSituation

Strabanimal wrote: »

I'm sorry but MH and his staff are far better. Dublin have top tier players in every position.

Put Jim in charge of New York and see how he'd do.

GO home lad. Seriously. That is just a ridiculous assertion and nothing to do with anything.

ToBeFrank123

Strabanimal wrote: »

I'm sorry but MH and his staff are far better. Dublin have top tier players in every position.

Put Jim in charge of New York and see how he'd do.

That's it in a nutshell.

BonnieSituation

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The point is that Dublin did not have to fund a huge stadium to play their home games at. This is a massive advantage to any county and means they can use the money saved elsewhere.

How was the stadium funded so?

And is that NOW the point? You're jumping allover the place and leaving so many questions unanswered and changing the focus of your points that it's hard to keep up with you.

---

More new talking point from dear Frankie boy:

Strabanimal wrote: »

I'm sorry but MH and his staff are far better. Dublin have top tier players in every position.

Put Jim in charge of New York and see how he'd do.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell.

So the issue now is that JG is not a good coach and that Dublin could be managed by any old donkey?

ToBeFrank123

BonnieSituation wrote: »

GO home lad. Seriously. That is just a ridiculous level of bitterdom.

I was wondering when the bitterness charge would be introduced on this thread.

You've no real interest in discussing the topic, just throwing accusations of bitterness out there. Very predictable I have to say.

gormdubhgorm

ClanofLams wrote: »

I have never said finances are the sole reason for the success of Dublin football.

It’s simple, Dublin footballers were starting off a base where they were regular Leinster champions and all Ireland contenders or not far off it. Dublin hurlers were starting off a base where they were getting beaten by fifteen by Offaly and knocked out by Westmeath.

You deliberately missed the point the Dublin hurlers moved on from being beaten by Offally and Westmeath and won a minor - leinster - league and got to an AI SF,

By your logic they should have continued in that upward curve with all thier finances etc

It wouldn't have something to do with the players or management would it?

In the 90's Dublin threw away loads of all-ireland's through sheer mismanagement, cliques in the dressing room, no real togetherness. Newcomers were not welcomed in as the old guard aged.

To paraphrase Kieth Barr - he used to say to the young fellas coming in the door - 'another fella who will be gone soon'


The team dynamic, players and management are the most important thing.
Read John O'Leary's book in 96 he was very anti Mickey Whelan.
But has since said that the team was not ready for change.
The players were there but they f**ked up.

gormdubhgorm

Strabanimal wrote: »

I'm sorry but MH and his staff are far better. Dublin have top tier players in every position.

Put Jim in charge of New York and see how he'd do.

Give him five years and he would win Connacht

(and no I am not taking the piss)

Strabanimal

BonnieSituation wrote: »

GO home lad. Seriously. That is just a ridiculous level of bitterdom.

It's all opinion at the end of the day. I think the Dubs just have better players.

STB.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah the old 15 against 15 argument.
And the get your house in order line.

Its like Man City telling Swindon Town to get their house in order, 11 v 11 and so on.

Laughable.

You also don't seem to understand what financial doping means or the impact it has on fair competition.

To be Frank Frank, stop making excuses. Financial doping as you called it is NOTHING to do with this current squad.

Laughable ? Just because your beloved Mayo were not up to the task! Perhaps your solution is closer to home. Perhaps ye are simply not good enough. No need to be a green eyed monster about it though. Grasping for reasons.

And have a bit of manners please. The Dubs are dominant right now because they are that good. We are not going to apologise for it.

RoyalCelt

Mokuba wrote: »

I notice you ignored the question about Dublin receiving 13 times the funding that Cork did, despite having 2.5 times the population. And in 2015 they had just over 5000 more registered players. But 13 times the funding. Seems a little unfair. :rolleyes:




All Dublin fans can do is bury their heads in the sand and stick their fingers in their ears. How anybody could gain satisfaction from winning a competition like this is beyond me.

It is rotten to the core. Dublin are financially doped up to their eyeballs. No other county has a hope. It'll take decades for the rest to catch up to Dublin, given their other advantages such as sponsorship, population and getting to play almost every game at home. By that point I doubt anyone will care.

I've yet to see a Dublin fan admit this was unfair treatment.

Donnielighto wrote: »

The title of the table will do nothing for you if you are trying to convince fans that are against you.

If Dublin fans get distracted by that title and therefore decide to ignore the facts laid aid out there is no helping them. It's almost as if they're looking for an excuse to focus on something else.

Kop On wrote: »

Maybe because Croke Park has been busy bailing the Cork County Board out of a €100 Million bog hole that is the new Pairc Ui Chaoimh.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/pairc-ui-chaoimh-revamp-cost-spirals-over-100m-892010.html

Imagine the mickey fits if Dublin were to try build the equivalent (for 3 or 4 times the cost given location) and got bailed out by Croke Park for it.

I couldn't imagine it. Because Dublin would never build a stadium fit for a county with 1.5M people. They'll just use Croker which is another advantage handed to them on a plate. Pity cork didn't have the same luxery.

Strabanimal

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Give him five years and he would win Connacht

(and no I am not taking the piss)

Yeah MH could win any province but he prefers the back door.

What do you think about JG as manager of NY?

BonnieSituation

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I was wondering when the bitterness charge would be introduced on this thread.

You've no real interest in discussing the topic, just throwing accusations of bitterness out there. Very predictable I have to say.

Ah the old switcheroo.

I see what you did there.

You're getting in knots now.

I've engaged ever so pleasantly on this topic with you and asked you to back up so many of your assertions and you have failed to return the engagement, instead just making stakle cliched posts that could be made by any old codger.

And of course I criticise one poster's clear bitter agenda since his county managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yesterday and it is that post with which you engage.

If you'd prefer I can collate all my queries again to help you out?

Bonniedog

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Don't forget that in the 00's you'd struggle to beat the likes of meath. .

I've been involved in Dublin hurling for nearly 50 years.

Have Meath ever beaten Dublin in a senior match during that time? Maybe when we were at our really worst, but perhaps have erased it from memory.

gormdubhgorm

Sheep breeder wrote: »

A lot of Dublin’s success at the moment is down to Jim Gavin and his back room team how they get the most out of the players, Brian Cody has done this with Kilkenny for so long now. Both have players serving apprenticeship to the team and know how to wait their turn. The way the game is played is simple and this thing about sweepers etc is all in the head and at the end of the day the team that scores the most win and to do that you need scoring forwards. How many teams haven’t got scoring forwards.
The gaa at grass roots drive the wheel in every club with good coaching and every kid getting game time. The players that make county teams will tell you it was the underage coaching that made them.
The biggest thing holding clubs and counties back is the management structures, with too many in it for themselves and not the good of team. How many clubs have the chairman’s Jonny having to be on the senior team and chairman’s club players first pick on the county team. Look at that with Mayo and one club dictating who is in the goal.

Exactly. plus you never hear of in fighting or players sulking - the likes of Mickey Whelan v John O'Leary / Jim McGuinness v Kevin Cassidy.
Dublin is being run superbly.

Imagine if McGeeney was put in charge of Dublin they wouldn't even win leinster after a few years!

ClanofLams

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You deliberately missed the point the Dublin hurlers moved on from being beaten by Offally and Westmeath and won a minor - leinster - league and got to an AI SF,

By your logic they should have continued in that upward curve with all thier finances etc

It wouldn't have something to do with the players or management would it?

In the 90's Dublin threw away loads of all-ireland's through sheer mismanagement, cliques in the dressing room, no real togetherness. Newcomers were not welcomed in as the old guard aged.

To paraphrase Kieth Barr - he used to say to the young fellas coming in the door - 'another fella who will be gone soon'


The team dynamic, players and management are the most important thing.
Read John O'Leary's book in 96 he was very anti Mickey Whelan.
But has since said that the team was not ready for change.
The players were there but they f**ked up.

Senior teams obviously need funding but they all get relatively well looked after. So no I wasn’t expecting Dublin senior team to necessarily continue to progress.

Funding is most useful for development, targeting players as young as possible, ensuring the highest standard of coaching at every club etc.

That is what Dublin have rightly done. That is a significant part of why Dublin hurling has been transformed and why they will be in the mix for All Irelands in the coming decade.

ToBeFrank123

STB. wrote: »

To be Frank Frank, stop making excuses. Financial doping as you called it is NOTHING to do with this current squad.


Just because your beloved Mayo are not up to the task, means your solutions are closer to home. Perhaps ye are simply not good enough. No need to be a green eyed monster about it.

Wow yet another accusation of jealousy. Its usually the last resort when ye run out of arguments.
For the record this has nothing to do with jealousy. The thread is about Dublins perceived advantages. And as soon as someone start to discuss GAA created imbalances in the sport attempts are made to shut the debate down with accusations of jealousy.
For every argument there is a counter argument.

Sheep breeder

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And the success of their u21s?
Ladies?
Hurlers?
Clubs?

Also down to Jim Gavin?

Give us a break. No-one is buying the "its all down to Jim Gavin" line anymore. Not when its across all sectors of Dublin GAA including those he has nothing to do with.

First of all not a dub, Jim Gavin and his team had success with the under 21 prior to taking over the senior team. The players bring this back to their clubs. Mickey has done a lot for Tyrone no doubt and fair play to him, but has he not influenced his players with impressing the will to win.

gormdubhgorm

Strabanimal wrote: »

Yeah MH could win any province but he prefers the back door.

What do you think about JG as manager of NY?

That is what I meant JG in the last post . Sorry did not clarify that.

MH only knows one way to play - JG would vary his style based on the players available.

Strabanimal

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah the old switcheroo.

I see what you did there.

You're getting in knots now.

I've engaged ever so pleasantly on this topic with you and asked you to back up so many of your assertions and you have failed to return the engagement, instead just making stakle cliched posts that could be made by any old codger.

And of course I criticise one poster's clear bitter agenda since his county managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory yesterday and it is that post with which you engage.

If you'd prefer I can collate all my queries again to help you out?

Calm down mate. I said you have the better players in every position. Hardly bitter in that regard.

Saying MH and his team are better isnt that outlandish like fs. No need for all the outrage.

BonnieSituation

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Wow yet another accusation of jealousy. Its usually the last resort when ye run out of arguments.
For the record this has nothing to do with jealousy. The thread is about Dublins perceived advantages. And as soon as someone start to discuss GAA created imbalances in the sport attempts are made to shut the debate down with accusations of jealousy.
For every argument there is a counter argument.

And for every question there is usually an answer. I'm still waiting on you to back up your assertions.

How were we handed a stadium?

How is financial mismanagement in other counties not important to you?

Strabanimal

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what I meant JG in the last post . Sorry did not clarify that.

MH only knows one way to play - JG would vary his style based on the players available.

So MH won 3 AIs last decade defensively and now is competing every year attacking. But yeah JG can vary his style with top tier footballers

BonnieSituation

Strabanimal wrote: »

Calm down mate. I said you have the better players in every position. Hardly bitter in that regard.

Saying MH and his team are better isnt that outlandish like fs. No need for all the outrage.

I know you have problems sometimes thinking that we're all agin ya but that post was aimed at Frankie boy who only piped up in your defence because I had the temerity to criticise you previously.

Have you anything to say on the Dublin financial "doping" situation? Or do you think we're all hyped up and therefore this is all a flash in the pan?

gormdubhgorm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Senior teams obviously need funding but they all get relatively well looked after. So no I wasn’t expecting Dublin senior team to necessarily continue to progress.

Funding is most useful for development, targeting players as young as possible, ensuring the highest standard of coaching at every club etc.

That is what Dublin have rightly done. That is a significant part of why Dublin hurling has been transformed and why they will be in the mix for All Irelands in the coming decade.

But again if funding/coaching and targeting of players were so good why has Dublin hurling dipped in the last six years from the high at inter-county of 2013?
Did they take a break or what?