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Our Sport is Under Attack Again

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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭yubabill


    Anyone remember the EU open consultation on firearms that had 80-odd thousand respondents that was withdrawn from the web a few years ago?

    And replaced with a phone poll with 25 thousand respondents that said the opposite?

    Well, I found it.

    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-is-new/public-consultation/2013/docs/consultation_026/report_on_consultation_including_annex_en.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    yubabill wrote: »
    Anyone remember the EU open consultation on firearms that had 80-odd thousand respondents that was withdrawn from the web a few years ago?

    And replaced with a phone poll with 25 thousand respondents that said the opposite?

    Well, I found it.

    https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/homeaffairs/files/what-is-new/public-consultation/2013/docs/consultation_026/report_on_consultation_including_annex_en.pdf

    Pulled because it didnt suit the narrative.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    At no 51 st Steve's green
    It was I think a good meet.They were very accomadating and took FUNI's points on board.

    Think we got 2out of 3 hits on;
    The mag capacity clarification,.
    The under 60 cms firearms situation .
    Bad news on the converted select fire guns tho.

    The mags.
    DOJ's take is they cant issue guidance on the act ,or its implimentation.Thats up to the Cheif/Supers discretion.However they will inform the AGS that if the mags are renderd incapable of holging less than10/20 shots.IRRESPECTIVE of physical size,they should be considered legal mags.

    Short rifles/shotguns under 60 cms with folding,etc stocks
    They accepted that if these were either pinned in the open position ,replaced or fixedwith a solid stock,and/or had a permanent barrel extension added.IE a muzzle break ,etc that brought it to an OAL of 60 cms ,you should be good to go as well.

    Bad news on the converted rifles.
    They consider them CAT A irrespective and must be disposed of,as they have no way of certifying or knowing that they are incapable of being reconverted to select fire.And of course the usual "public saftey" speil.(I offered to do this inspection for free for them if needed.)
    Which was intresting to see a beauracratic viewpoint when challenged on this.On how the public saftey is served by banning mags and certain types of firearms,when criminals are using these willy nilly all over the place.Because they are illegal guns and criminals,they dont count in how the legislation is drafted,and we must look at the bigger picture of the fight against national and international crime. All well and good but not much help when you are looking at disposing of your gun with no compo,because you are privileged to own one here in the state,according to the AG.:mad:
    I pointed out that it will be impossible to police who has CAT A mags,and virtually impossible to check these arms either,without having them inspected by a compent authority
    Disposal.All they could suggest was deacting them,as they are unsellable in the EU and US as they are virtually worthless now.

    So the only option is to let a court decide on this compensation issue,as legal council has suggested.It seems to be the ultima ratio for everything here,and one I pointed out that obviously everyone on both sides wants to avoid but will have to be the decider.

    All in all,Ifound them helpful and receptive and willing to learn on the subject and took notice of a from the ground up perspective on how us gun owners feel about things.
    On the ammo transporting,in a suitable receptable.I complimented them on their word choice on this,and yes they agreed it is to prevent casual and opportunistic theft.Not to stop a full blown assault and theft of your car.
    Best
    Grizzly 45

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    Thanks for the efforts to get some changes and extra clarity. While everything might not be to our liking, there is some comfort in knowing where lines of rules lie. Thanks again.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    The mag capacity clarification,.
    Like the pistol SI of 2015?
    The under 60 cms firearms situation .
    Refresh my memory on this?

    SI21/2008 and 337/2009 deal with this, but did the new EU directive/SI change it?
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yup the directive changed all three issues.

    I mentioned it to them in a letter about our concerns on the mag capacity issue that there is precedent for the govt to accept the rendering incapable to 10/20 rounds of high cap mags under the HC decision with rhe .22sSo tis should be sorted out in the nest AGS guidelines ,if we are getting fair play.

    Any rifle/shotgun thats semi auto under 60 cms with a folding,etc stock in length is a CAT A item now.Maybe 3 or 4 of them here possibly, hence the suggestions to lengthen them up to 60 cms to bring them to EU stds.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Any rifle/shotgun thats semi auto under 50 cms with a folding,etc stock in length is a CAT A item now.Maybe 3 or 4 of them here possibly, hence the suggestions to lengthen them up to 60 cms to bring them to EU stds.
    Can you quote/link to that piece because i either did not see it in the new SI or forgot it was there.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Cass wrote: »
    Can you quote/link to that piece because i either did not see it in the new SI or forgot it was there.

    This?
    Prohibition on acquisition or possession of firearms classified in Category A of Directive

    2D. (1) Subject to subsections (2), (3) and (4), a person who acquires or possesses a firearm or ammunition classified in Category A of the Directive shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable -

    (a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

    (b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €20,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or both.

    (2) Subsection (1) shall not, during the period beginning on 1 September 2019 and ending on 29 February 2020, apply to the possession of a firearm classified in point 6, 7 or 8 of Category A of the Directive by -

    (a) a person who is the holder of a firearm certificate, which is in force, in respect of the firearm, or

    (b) a registered firearms dealer who has lawfully purchased the firearm concerned by way of trade or business



    Unfortunatly ,they didnt forget it... i,they just didn't transcribe it or define it in the Irish SI,you have to go to the EU directive to find the definition.It is however mentioned in the SI 420 EC [aqusition of weapons and ammo][amendment act ]2019 paragraph D guidance notes

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    This?

    Moot point. You edited your post where i read 50 cm originally. That is where my confusion was coming from. Why we had 50cm when the directive says 60cm and the new SI doesn't even mention length, instead referencing the Directive.
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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Yup,my bad..Sorry about that.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Don't do that again...........................

    tenor.gif?itemid=5911583
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    http://www.sportscoalition.org/doj-101219/
    Just read this press release this evening. Looking like somebody had interest in this new s.i. There must be good money in ammo boxes!!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭tudderone


    http://www.sportscoalition.org/doj-101219/
    Just read this press release this evening. Looking like somebody had interest in this new s.i. There must be good money in ammo boxes!!!!!

    They can get stuffed :mad:.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    What else was discussed in the "to name a few " topics? And where do they get off with this bulcrap of;
    it was noted that the Department had opted to legislate within the provisions of the Directive for relatively easier levels of compliance than applies in many other member states based on the narrower range of firearms used in Ireland. [/I]
    It could have made life alot easier for everyone by simply just garandfathering high cap mags to anyone in possesion of such and engaged in a recognised shooting disipline either here or abroad,and grandfathering any converted former select fire firearms ..AS has been the option open to all EU nations...No it wwas Dept policy to restrict and reduce if possible any further semi autos in circulation in Ireland.
    With organisations like this on our side....:mad:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭richiedel123


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    With organisations like this on our side....:mad:

    I don't think this organisation is on any shooting/ hunting persons side!! Everything they do seems to make it harder for the average hunter to go about their pastimes. They are a disgrace. From what I can see the only thing they are interested in is lining their own pockets


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Sorry...thought i didnt need to write "SARCASM" behind my previous post?;)

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭cavan shooter


    We didn't call them The Sports Coalition of Vested Interests for nothing....or SCOVIS

    Obviously jumping on the band wagon to try again to gain traction now CAI are out of Ireland..Dangerous fkrs though, seem to be up the Ministers hole dont represent anyone but themselves. First they were pushing a training course for lamping now they want us all to buy ammo boxes......I'll stick to my toolbox receptacle with padlock...and the ammo locked in my drawer I'm not paying €50 for a glorified lunchbox or €250 for an ammo safe when there is no need.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Just intresting the dates too. FUNI met on the on the 9th with the DOJ...SCOVI posts this on the 10th of Dec... Did Scovi come in as we were walking out on the same date?Or meet the previous week? Things to make you go HMMMMM!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    We didn't call them The Sports Coalition of Vested Interests for nothing....or SCOVIS

    Obviously jumping on the band wagon to try again to gain traction now CAI are out of Ireland..Dangerous fkrs though, seem to be up the Ministers hole dont represent anyone but themselves. First they were pushing a training course for lamping now they want us all to buy ammo boxes......I'll stick to my toolbox receptacle with padlock...and the ammo locked in my drawer I'm not paying €50 for a glorified lunchbox or €250 for an ammo safe when there is no need.

    50 quid for an ammo box???Where are you ordering from??:P

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    http://www.sportscoalition.org/doj-101219/
    Just read this press release this evening. Looking like somebody had interest in this new s.i. There must be good money in ammo boxes!!!!!


    Again these people do not represent or speak for me. So who other than themselves are they supposedly representing, because no right thinking field sports participant can agree with anything they say.
    And how do they get such free and easy access to the powers that be, to be able to brief the new people on what we are supposedly looking for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,012 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Proably the same as any would. By lobbying your local TD or minister to make an appointment to meet them,and putting your points of concern on paper to discuss on the day?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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