Nora Quoirin. [Read mod note in post #1 - updated 14/08]

Spanish Eyes

I think many are over invested in this. Think facts. If there are are any to be found.

Leave emotion aside for a bit.

But I am persona non grata anyway.

Strazdas

khalessi wrote: »

I find it strange that she was bare footed, in pjs, unable to balance properly according to some reports and her scent stopped a hundred metres from the house.

Just hope she is found

I'm guessing the scent mustn't have led in the direction of the road to the resort though, otherwise they would suspect she had indeed been taken away by car.

They seem convinced the scent was in the direction of the rain forest, because that is where they have been searching all week.

chicorytip

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I really don't care what you think. I have a special needs child in my family and the last place to take him would be to a rainforest in deepest Malaysia or similar Sorry now.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Do you have special needs children in your family circle? Where would they take them on holidays? f

I hate this term "special needs". It's PC bull****. If a child has Downs Syndrome or Spina Bifida then refer to that condition by it's name. It is not insulting to do so. Nora Quoirin, I believe, suffers from a developmental disorder of the brain which has inhibited her physical, intellectual and emotional development. It does not make sense to me to criticise the parents here for their choice of holiday destination. Nora could just as easily have gone missing from an apartment on the Algarve or a cottage on the Donegal coast. At this stage it's difficult to even hazard a guess as to what exactly has happened to her.

Spon Farmer

khalessi wrote: »

I find it strange that she was bare footed, in pjs, unable to balance properly according to some reports and her scent stopped a hundred metres from the house.

Just hope she is found

dark crystal wrote: »

She wasn't even wearing PJs as far as I'm aware, just her underwear.

Like others have said, it was her first night there, surely no one would have been watching for such a short time? It's just horribly bizarre.

I'm usually very cynical and expect the worst but all week I've been expecting to turn on the news to reports that the child has returned.

Your posts have broken me - I'm not blaming you folks or anything, a few hours thinking about it combined with the lateness of the hour too - but it getting upsetting.

Time for bed.

khalessi

Sorry Spon Just cant get her out of my mind or her family

Spon Farmer

khalessi wrote: »

Sorry Spon Just cant get her out of my mind or her family

As I said wasn't blaming you and I do understand what you mean.

Just that things are looking more bleak. I need to check on my kids every night or I don't sleep and it has been that way since the first was in the womb and I still can't imagine what that family is going through.

Beasty

Spanish Eyes

Do not post in this thread again. Further sanctions may follow once we've had a chance to review your posts in this thread

khalessi

I cant either just horrific

Listeing to the news in last week with various teen age deaths it just takes a second could be any of us

Spon Farmer

khalessi wrote: »

I cant either just horrific

Listeing to the news in last week with various teen age deaths it just takes a second could be any of us

Yes it did seem like there was a lot this week.

The 15 year old falling in Lanzarote, the British scientist dying in Greece and the teenager attacking the little boy in the Tate.

My mother stopped watching the news this week because of it all. Just seemed like an onslaught.

Airyfairy12

chicorytip wrote: »

I hate this term "special needs". It's PC bull****. If a child has Downs Syndrome or Spina Bifida then refer to that condition by it's name. It is not insulting to do so. Nora Quoirin, I believe, suffers from a developmental disorder of the brain which has inhibited her physical, intellectual and emotional development. It does not make sense to me to criticise the parents here for their choice of holiday destination. Nora could just as easily have gone missing from an apartment on the Algarve or a cottage on the Donegal coast. At this stage it's difficult to even hazard a guess as to what exactly has happened to her.

Its not PC, its a simple term used to describe anyone with a disability of which there are thousands, many of which arent common or heard of often.
A persons disability is often private and personal, special needs people dont have to disclose their disability to anybody, nor should they have to explain themselves.
The term special needs protects their privacy, dignity and is a simpler way of making other people aware that theyre disabled without themselves or their families having to share personal information or constantly having to explain what their disability is and how it effects them.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you arrived from Mars to investigate this, first thing you would do is record all mobile phone activity in the area on the night in question. Being a backward country you would have no problem in locking up and questioning anyone in the area not having purpose to be there, why didn't they do this?

There have been reports of staff and also, local sex offenders been investigated. It's probably not something any police force wishes to promote as a line of investigation under such circumstance, unless they have to.

The parents statement on "possible abduction" in the early days of this investigation, which was rebutted by the local police, is in contrast to the above reporting. So while a lot of the media focus has been on "searching", other lines of enquiry apparently are bring investigated.

And sorry, I don't mean to accelerate one form of investigation over another- I'm only stating whats been reported, and when,

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

There have been reports of staff and also, local sex offenders been investigated. It's probably not something any police force wishes to promote as a line of investigation under such circumstance, unless they have to.

The parents statement on "possible abduction" in the early days of this investigation, which was rebutted by the local police, is in contrast to the above reporting. So while a lot of the media focus has been on "searching", other lines of enquiry apparently are bring investigated.

And sorry, I don't mean to accelerate one form of investigation over another- I'm only stating whats been reported, and when,

And I have to say, I didn't feel good about posting the above. Because I didn't.

But there are reports in a number of newspapers reflecting same.

I'm taking the view that "all avenues" are being explored- as per the parents wishes based on what they have said to date- and hoping that she will be found safe and well.

CollyFlower

Nora could have went down to the kitchen for a drink of water during the night, was the door left open when everyone went to bed, or would she have opened it herself?

Strazdas

CollyFlower wrote: »

Nora could have went down to the kitchen for a drink of water during the night, was the door left open when everyone went to bed, or would she have opened it herself?

Apparently the external door (to the outside) was found open. But police simply don't know if she let herself out or if someone entered the premises. The only way it could be opened from the outside though is if it had been left unlocked and police say they don't know if it was or not.

votecounts

splinter65 wrote: »

I’ll probably get banned for this but I don’t care.
Few of us can stand in Nora’s mothers shoes. Few of us would be able for it. It takes a certain backbone to be the mother of a disabled child.
Eviltwin is a poster here and there are others who stand in those shoes.
The growing realization that your child is not developing like he or she should. The GP scratching her head. The endless tests. Waiting. Waiting. Referrals to specialists in 6 months time. Then, the final diagnosis. The grief of losing a future that will now be very different.
The endless hospital appointments the unkind comments from other children and sometimes adults.
The slack jawed stares in the supermarket. The frustration and the exhaustion.
What you can do, if you have the means, is go on a really exotic holiday. Somewhere different. Somewhere memorable. For everyone.
Oh you could leave Nora at home and of course she’d probably be happy in respite care.
And you’d be entitled to a break if you were minding her all the time for 52 weeks a year for 15 years.
But no. Nora’s parents wanted Nora to enjoy the jungle holiday too.
And they’d miss Nora too much anyway.
So off they go and plunge into this dystopian nightmare.
For the vast majority of onlookers this provokes an avalanche of sympathy.
Most of are overcome with pity in particular for her mother.
The pain.
The terror.
The nightmarish thoughts that taunt you every time you stop moving so you keep moving until you collapse.
Night turns into day turns into night again and on and on.
People donate money and offer prayers and sympathy.
You’d think that everyone could empathize, but you’d be wrong.
See this poster “Spanish eyes”.
Now Spanish eyes has been hovering around for a few days waiting for her chance. Spanish eyes LOVES to torture the parents of children who went missing on holidays.
Yesterday, she tried to turn this thread into a thread about the mother of another child who went missing 12 years ago.
She slunk away when some of us objected but she really can’t control herself. The venom is just gushing out of her. So she’s back tonight to start her campaign against Nora’s mother.
It takes a certain level of c**tishness to be as determined to judge as this but she has it.
I’d imagine this will be deleted and I’ll be banned. It was worth it though.

Well said splinter

Kidchameleon

People here need to harden up big time, I fear for you all when you make it to the real world. Spanish Eyes is 100% correct. You may not like it, but what they are saying is the truth, like it or not. The thing is, it was a stupid move to bring Nora* to that place. What is a child with learning and motor difficulties going to do in a jungle? Bring her to Disney Land ffs. If you really want to go to the jungle, leave her with the grand parents/neighbors while your gone. It may be cruel but its a hell of a lot better that whats happening to her now. She could be getting abused as we speak, locked in a dark room tied up, lost in the jungle barely surviving or even dead and eaten by animals.


*Yes I know thats not exactly how her name is spelt, deal with it.

Mod: The poster was carded and threadbanned. Please stop reporting this post.

Aceso

Jesus christ, I've just read the 32 pages of this thread, what a shit show.

In relation to Nóra being brought to Malaysia, families who have a family member with special/specific needs, know their family member better than anyone else. I (and the vast majority of people commenting) don't know if this was Nóra's first time in Malaysia, first time abroad, first time on holiday. Maybe she's well travelled, maybe not.
In work, I come into contact with many patients with special/specific needs and some of the families treat their child like fragile china, wrap them up in bubble wrap and live in fear of their child developing a chest infection, which can easily turn fatal in some medical conditions.
On the other hand, I know of families who bring their child everywhere, including camping. These families lug all the camping equipment for a family of 5, wheelchair, medical equipment, battery packs for equipment, medication etc etc up a hillside and enjoy a family holiday, exposing their child to clean fresh air, which benefits their child immensely, and allowing the whole family a bit of "normality".
I know camping isn't the same as a jungle setting, however, I'm just trying to illustrate how different families approach parenting.
Neither approach to parenting a child with special/specific needs is wrong, just different.

The story is very sad, I can't imagine the fear and anxiety Nóra is feeling, simply just by being separated from her family, this being massively amplified so much by whatever situation she finds herself in. Like others have said, if she is simply lost in the jungle, she must now be struggling with the lack of food and water.
Like others, I feel she may not even be that far from the resort, possibly having had an accident and unable to find her way back, although her scent seemingly disappearing makes that unlikely.
The fact that Nóra is non verbal makes the search so much more difficult.
I hope she is found. I can't even imagine what the family are going through.

Shop40

Really hoping today brings some news. My heart aches for Nóra and her family.

I’ve said it before, but worth reading Brendan O Connor’s excellent piece in yesterday’s Independent. I have a child who is quite similar in terms of difficulties, and this story has resonated sharply. BOC articulates how it feels as a parent so well.

Rfrip

Kidchameleon wrote: »

People here need to harden up big time, I fear for you all when you make it to the real world. Spanish Eyes is 100% correct. You may not like it, but what they are saying is the truth, like it or not. The thing is, it was a stupid move to bring Nora* to that place. What is a child with learning and motor difficulties going to do in a jungle? Bring her to Disney Land ffs. If you really want to go to the jungle, leave her with the grand parents/neighbors while your gone. It may be cruel but its a hell of a lot better that whats happening to her now. She could be getting abused as we speak, locked in a dark room tied up, lost in the jungle barely surviving or even dead and eaten by animals.


*Yes I know thats not exactly how her name is spelt, deal with it.

Jesus Christ

Rfrip

Rfrip wrote: »

Jesus Christ

wept.

Happy4all

Kidchameleon wrote: »

People here need to harden up big time, I fear for you all when you make it to the real world. Spanish Eyes is 100% correct. You may not like it, but what they are saying is the truth, like it or not. The thing is, it was a stupid move to bring Nora* to that place. What is a child with learning and motor difficulties going to do in a jungle? Bring her to Disney Land ffs. If you really want to go to the jungle, leave her with the grand parents/neighbors while your gone. It may be cruel but its a hell of a lot better that whats happening to her now. She could be getting abused as we speak, locked in a dark room tied up, lost in the jungle barely surviving or even dead and eaten by animals.


*Yes I know thats not exactly how her name is spelt, deal with it.

Perhaps you need to find a heart.

Maybe you should start with the opinion, that they are loving parents who at this stage from daily care know Nora's needs better than you. They spoke Of Nora's excitement of going on this holiday, not excluding her and leaving her at home without them.

these rare things happen, we all expect to be safe when we turn the key at night in a holiday home from home. There but for the grace of God go you or I, as the saying goes.

votecounts

Some people are just hateful trolls, ffs grow up

fits

chicorytip wrote: »

I hate this term "special needs". It's PC bull****. If a child has Downs Syndrome or Spina Bifida then refer to that condition by it's name. to her.

I’m not a huge fan of it either. But it’s a much easier than naming the exact condition and explaining the intricacies of it. Especially when it’s a rare condition that people wouldn’t be familiar with.

iamwhoiam

fits wrote: »

I’m not a huge fan of it either. But it’s a much easier than naming the exact condition and explaining the intricacies of it. Especially when it’s a rare condition that people wouldn’t be familiar with.

Exactly , plus the term Down's Syndrome for example is a huge range of special needs and not one child is like another .Nóra has holoprosencephaly and their are many sub types and different symptoms and needs . Nóras needs are individual and unique to her


https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/6665/holoprosencephaly/cases/27877

splinter65

This is one of the most unfathomable mysteries it really is.
There doesn’t seem to be any explanation for her disappearance that doesn't require a massive leap of imagination.
It appears from all reports that Nora didn’t have the skills to abscond through the window on her own, but could she have been removed by force against her will without making enough of a row to wake her family?!?
If the suspicion is that a hotel staff member is responsible for abducting Nora then that person/persons didn’t spend very much time observing the family and really took a massive risk going for the abduction on the first night.
Did anybody read or hear any result from the sniffer dogs?

CelticSeaShip

Joining in on the thread.

I hope Nora is found soon. Her poor family worried sick.��.

splinter65 wrote: »

This is one of the most unfathomable mysteries it really is.
There doesn’t seem to be any explanation for her disappearance that doesn't require a massive leap of imagination.
It appears from all reports that Nora didn’t have the skills to abscond through the window on her own, but could she have been removed by force against her will without making enough of a row to wake her family?!?
If the suspicion is that a hotel staff member is responsible for abducting Nora then that person/persons didn’t spend very much time observing the family and really took a massive risk going for the abduction on the first night.
Did anybody read or hear any result from the sniffer dogs?

None of it makes sense to me.

Does Nora often wake in the middle of the night at home? If so, what does she do? Does she leave her room? Go to the bathroom or into her parents or siblings bedrooms?
Maybe Nora woke in her room in the resort. Maybe it was dark. Maybe she's used to navigating her bedroom at home in the dark. Maybe the window in the resorts room was in the same direction of her bedroom door at home. Only her family would know all this.

I don't know. So much swimming around my head trying to make sense of it.

If it's in an abduction, how would an abductor study a family within the resort in such a short time? How would an abductor know what window to go to to find sleeping children? How can a window be opened from the outside? And to do so quickly with little noise and commotion?

None of it makes sense.

Hopefully Nora will be found soon and reunited with her family.

Hector Savage

I have heard conflicting reports about her footprints - they found some and they found none ?

Knine

I saw it mentioned several times about why she was brought to the jungle etc plus respite mentioned! Here in Ireland anyway there is little to no respite, there is also not a big queue of people wanting to mind a child with special needs.

Imagine also that their child has feelings just like anyone else & might not be too happy about being left behind.

Here in my house the children are treated equally rather then by ability!

Aceso

splinter65 wrote: »

This is one of the most unfathomable mysteries it really is.
There doesn’t seem to be any explanation for her disappearance that doesn't require a massive leap of imagination.
It appears from all reports that Nora didn’t have the skills to abscond through the window on her own, but could she have been removed by force against her will without making enough of a row to wake her family?!?
If the suspicion is that a hotel staff member is responsible for abducting Nora then that person/persons didn’t spend very much time observing the family and really took a massive risk going for the abduction on the first night.
Did anybody read or hear any result from the sniffer dogs?

I've read that she is non verbal so I suppose that may have played a part in the hypothetical kidnappers being able to take her so easily.

If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, is it plausible that they would have been able to access information on Nóra before the family even arrived?
I would imagine that the family may have provided certain information when booking. I'm not sure what Nóra's needs are but, maybe Nóra is on medication that needs to be kept in a fridge, or uses a medical device that requires a particular power source, or, maybe the family asked for a specific type of accommodation (ground floor) due to Nóra's condition? If an employee/employees of the hotel is involved, maybe they knew to target this particular family because of some information provided by the family ahead of time.
Obviously this is all very hypothetical and I am not trying to be insensitive to the family or friends, just discussing some possibilities.

Hector Savage

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0812/1068308-nora-gardai-scotland-yard-search/

Police have questioned a number of people, are examining fingerprints found on a window, and looking into reports that villagers heard a truck early on the morning that the girl disappeared.

ah jaysus, this doesn't look good at all.