Everything you always wanted to know about electric vehicle (but were afraid to ask)

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486497#Comment_120486497

That’s a decent chunk of car for 18-19k.

veryangryman

Is it not a little foolish to expect EV prices to drop? For economies of scale, the early adaptors would be discriminated against. Akready the grant is droppping so if anything, they'll go up. The middle class only will get the EVs while the rest will be stuck continuing to drive the 08 gas guzzler.

They EV prices will "come down" as used cars like any used car will over time of course, but that's just the actual value of an older asset.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486497#Comment_120486497

Great value, I got a 182 one last year at that price from a dealer... In hindsight it's probably not worth getting an EV from a dealer as there's feck all to go wrong with them

Sabre Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486555#Comment_120486555

I think there will be downward pressure for some time due to more Chinese EVs coming to the market as well as Tesla ramping up production and demonstrating a willingness to lower prices to deliver whatever number of cars they can produce.

Red Silurian

Currently the Tesla website states "Estimated Delivery: Apr – Jun 2023" for a M3 order placed today... How accurate is this?

joe1303l

I’d suggest an e-Golf, nicer to drive than a Leaf and seem to hold their value.

veryangryman

The EasyGo chargers are anything but. 2 out of 3 times now i log in, select the charger, plug it in and nothing happens. Thankfully theres always been another one (ESB) nearby but is there a common FAQ of what can go wrong? Their site and app is muck

rodneytrotter15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486837#Comment_120486837

Was a bit worried it might not have the range for his commute in cold weather.

rodneytrotter15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486497#Comment_120486497

Have sent that one on. Seems like a really nice spec for that money.

rodneytrotter15

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486555#Comment_120486555

Not sure it's foolish. I think there's already some downward pricing pressure after the Tesla price cuts. Is there more to go who knows.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486555#Comment_120486555

"the early adapters would be discriminated against" - bit like saying the lads that paid €2k for a very basic laptop in 1996 were discriminated against because they're now cheaper

They're computers now, so Moores Law will start to kick in. Cost will reduce every year.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488338#Comment_120488338

Actually the early adopters who did quite well as most manufacturers initially released discounted launch models which were then subject to significant price increases and they also benefited from free public charging for a number of years.

eagerv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488816#Comment_120488816

Yes, we have done well with 3 previous EVs. Cost us very little if anything (Apart from capital tied up in them).

But my present one will probably make up for previous ones...😊

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488338#Comment_120488338

I think you are right but I think that as prices drop government subsidies will also... Today a M3 can be bought for just over 45k but in 5 years time it might drop to 40k, the 5k grant could be gone though

eagerv

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488957#Comment_120488957

A Model 3 can be bought today for €40K..

Edit, do you mean before grant?

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488816#Comment_120488816

Not really, Nissan dropped price about 20% in first year and between 2011 to 2016 depreciation on EVs was brutal.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489351#Comment_120489351

What about pretty much every other EV, including Hyundai Ioniq 28kw which held its value extremely well.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488990#Comment_120488990

Yes, pre-grant

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489730#Comment_120489730

AFAIR Ioniq was not doing that well either, I recall one of posters getting a great deal on nearly new one (demo?) from a dealer, there was also case of someone buying Fluence for 2k and now selling it for 5k. It was around 2018 or 2019 (again AFAIR) that situation turned around and many second hand cars have appreciated in value. Perhaps Tesla's from this early era were only exception, but I did not tracked their prices. Triplets were also not doing too good.

Sabre Man

How accurate is the predicted range of the 64 kWh Kia Soul? There is only one way to find out, so Inge goes on a day trip from Mallow to Dublin and back again. To make it more interesting they drove at the speed limit on the motorway on the way up but restricted their speed to 110 km/h on the motorway on the way back. This made quite a difference.

Inge also discusses the charging experience and associated costs, as well as how to calculate your real range based on your consumption.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2LlLNpFkjk

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490216#Comment_120490216

That's not my understanding and to be fair the Ioniq 28 is still holding its value well despite the many newer and longer range EVs on the market today. The majority of EV owners I know are pretty consistent in the view that the overall cost of ownership for EVs was very low in comparison to ICEs, the higher your mileage the greater the savings., particularly in the early days if you took advantage of free public charging or work charging. More recently this gap narrowed as manufacturers greatly jacked up the price of their EVs by launching larger high spec SUVs to max revenues in response to high demand and limited supply. It will be interesting to see how the Tesla price cuts and the arrival of cheaper Chinese models will impact EV prices of the legacy manufacturers. There is only so many manufacturers can survive in the high margin low volume sector in the longer term

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492317#Comment_120492317

Year is 2023 now, 2011-2017 are now just a distant memory - we are talking about early adopters. Since then we came long way, as I mentioned earlier many cars not only stopped depreciating but have appreciated.

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492925#Comment_120492925

Fair enough, it was you that referenced the brutal depn during the 2011 to 2016 period. I'm not sure how long the early adopter period lasted for EVs but in reality EV sales have only really sold in large numbers in the last 3 years or so.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120493084#Comment_120493084

The ioniq only came here in 2017 from memory so the poster is correct.

Early days had brutal depreciation for EV’s. We had 3 in work from 2012 and in 2016 I started buying leaf’s as they were at the bottom of their curve then. In 2016 I bought a 2014 tekna leaf for €7700! That car was kept for 3 years and sold for €11k here.

veryangryman

Isn;t the general idea of EVs that they should last longer and thus feel "new" for longer so there wouldn't be much market for handing them down until at least 5 years, maybe even 10?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494612#Comment_120494612

That depends. It seems the overwhelming majority of people buying new cars in this country do so on finance and change every 3 years. They did this with diesels that could develop major problems from about 3-4 years onwards like DMF, timing chains, injectors, clutches, EGR and all sorts of engine problems. So it made some sense to get out while the going was good and the cars were within warranty. But these same buyers are still changing cars after 3 years with maintenance free EVs that can be expected to go on without major out of warranty problems for a very long time

I guess for most people it's the finance terms that lead their decisions, not the other way around

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494818#Comment_120494818

A lot of people buy cars for the plate and the feel good factor associated with owning a new sweet smelling car ever 2 to 3 years. This sentiment will apply equally to ICEs as to EVs. A lad I know changes his cars every 2 years, most of them will still have original tyres on. In fact he loves to boast that he changes his cars rather than his tyres with the inference the latter is for the peasants😣

However I think technology has added an additional level of built in obsolescence to car ownership. Some people just can stand not having the latest gadgets and EVs are evolving at such a pace at present that a 2 year old car could be considered old hat by many. The amount of people flipping less than 12 month old M3s to hop into latest MY is an example of this. It seems unless you car has the latest driver aid or automation or if has has less than 300bhp and takes more than 6 second to get to 100kph (figures for eg only) a lot of people would consider it near suicidal to drive at this stage. I'm sure this will settle down again as the market matures somewhat

smax71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494457#Comment_120494457

Oh I agree the leaf suffered significant depn but that wasnt surprising given its poor range and deplorable battery degradation. For me EVs only really got serious following Hyundai launching the Ioniq, followed by Kona. These were actually great cars that had decent range and solid batteries. In fairness to Nissan the launch of the L40 tried to bring the leaf into the modern EV age but it's still flawed compared to most other EVs on the market st this stage, mainly due to no active battery cooling and sticking with the defunct chademo charging protocol. As I said previously the very low running cost of EVs, supported by free public charging, mitigated the depn suffered by early cars. It's not like ICEs didnt experience depn tbf

September1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120495023#Comment_120495023

It was not only LEAF, I think Fluence was even worse and as I mentioned previously it has affected Ioniq 28kWh as well, but it was still a new car back then, so it resulted in dealers giving a great deals on new or nearly new cars.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120494989#Comment_120494989

Not sure I agree with the Tesla analogy. I'd say the overwhelming majority of Model 3 owners buying Model Y do so because it is going to be a near zero depreciation car. Of a much more practical and popular form factor

And in Teslas, you get most of the latest driver aids / automation / gadgets via free over the air software upgrades. My own 6 year old Tesla feels more up to date than 90% of brand new 2023 cars