Woman convicted for false rape allegation against 12 men in Cyprus (Overturned in Jan22)

meeeeh

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Didnt the doctor who treated her say that she had injuries consistent with rape? But he wasn't allowed to testify. So she was tried for making a false claim but the judge refused to allow any evidence that she was raped to be heard. Coupled with the obviously dictated statement, this is dodgy as hell. If it was any other crime she was accused of theres no way anyone would be saying she was definitely guilty.

I don't know if it was rape or false allegations but how she was treated in comparison to men who were out of the country almost immediately is worrying. It's also clear message to women in Israel not to report rape.

And to all those who are experts on how women enjoy group sex, is it normal occurrence for women to end up with injuries consistent with rape and to be delighted with the situation that she would go to the police next day?

mlem123

Although I realise we'll probably never know what happened in that apartment, the details around her interrogation. the attitude of the police etc have left me with doubts that she is guilty. My reasoning being:

1. The dodgy statement
2. The lack of interpreter, lawyer, consular official or family member present during this interrogation - after she allegedly requested them
3. The lack of care about forensic collection - why were people allowed to check into the room where it happened so soon?
4. The doctors testimony and it not being allowed in court
5. The closeness and how much Cyprus depends on Israel for trade and tourism. The article from the Financial Times from last week shows an example of this

Israel, Greece and Cyprus set to seal €6bn gas pipeline deal

Beasty

LoughNeagh2017 - do not post in this thread again

Holly13

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I haven't seen one person say that and if they did, I would happily condemn those words.

There are people on this thread saying they have seen “the video” of this girl smiling into the camera and naked and whatever....and therefore these TWELVE boys are obviously completely innocent and she’s a false accuser etc. I’m paraphrasing here, but that’s the jist.
As a side note, why anyone would watch a video of a gang rape is beyond me.

anewme

mlem123 wrote: »

Although I realise we'll probably never know what happened in that apartment, the details around her interrogation. the attitude of the police etc have left me with doubts that she is guilty. My reasoning being:

1. The dodgy statement
2. The lack of interpreter, lawyer, consular official or family member present during this interrogation - after she allegedly requested them
3. The lack of care about forensic collection - why were people allowed to check into the room where it happened so soon?
4. The doctors testimony and it not being allowed in court
5. The closeness and how much Cyprus depends on Israel for trade and tourism. The article from the Financial Times from last week shows an example of this

Many questions asked about the friends in high places connections.

"But some of the suspects have family friends in powerful positions. One of their fathers is an adviser to the mayor of Jerusalem, while an Israeli government minister has admitted being a close friend of the parents of two of the suspects. And on the very day the British woman says she was coerced into ‘confessing’ she had made up her rape claims, the Greek foreign minister was visiting Israel and seemingly taking an interest in the case."

ceadaoin.

Holly13 wrote: »

There are people on this thread saying they have seen “the video” of this girl smiling into the camera and naked and whatever....and therefore these TWELVE boys are obviously completely innocent and she’s a false accuser etc. I’m paraphrasing here, but that’s the jist.
As a side note, why anyone would watch a video of a gang rape is beyond me.

Theres no confirmation that the video is actually of this event is there? But yeah a girl appears to be enjoying group sex, therefore this girl is definitely a spiteful bitch out for revenge

Holly13

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Her confession being inconsistent does not make 12 israeli boys guilty though... regardless of what happened in police procedures to try secure a conviction for false allegations, theres nothing to suggest that what took place was a rape, and theres still two boys accused who were not even present.

Yes we don’t know what happened because it wasn’t investigated properly. Her conviction is ridiculous.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

anewme wrote: »

Many questions asked about the friends in high places connections.

"But some of the suspects have family friends in powerful positions. One of their fathers is an adviser to the mayor of Jerusalem, while an Israeli government minister has admitted being a close friend of the parents of two of the suspects. And on the very day the British woman says she was coerced into ‘confessing’ she had made up her rape claims, the Greek foreign minister was visiting Israel and seemingly taking an interest in the case."

Even a misogynist should surely look at those facts and question the outcome. Silencing and punishing legitimate rape victims is appalling. I'm not convinced that this is cut and dry at all.

Holly13

Gravity Gold wrote: »

It's quite possible that in the moment she was enjoying the thrill of the encounter, but then afterwards, having been humiliated by the men and disrespected she decided to claim rape out of spite.

Oh yes, ANYTHING is possible... therefore guilty?

Eric Cartman

Holly13 wrote: »

Yes we don’t know what happened because it wasn’t investigated properly. Her conviction is ridiculous.

Only as rediculous as the accusation against the lads

Gravity Gold

Gravity Gold wrote: »

It's quite possible that in the moment she was enjoying the thrill of the encounter, but then afterwards, having been humiliated by the men and disrespected she decided to claim rape out of spite.

Humiliation and disrespect aren't normally accepted as part of consentual sex. She may have gone into the encounter willingly, but if things turned sour, she had the right to withdraw consent any time. I think people forget this.

Captain Flaps

Deleted User wrote: »

Humiliation and disrespect aren't normally accepted as part of consentual sex. She may have gone into the encounter willingly, but if things turned sour, she had the right to withdraw consent any time. I think people forget this.

People don't forget it, they just like the believe the completely ridiculous notion that falsely claiming to have been raped is as common as actually having been raped.

I'm all on board with innocent until proven guilty, but a verdict either way isn't conclusive of anything and statistically speaking if someone claims they were raped the likelihood is not that they felt bad about a consensual encounter after the fact.

Captain Flaps

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I'm all on board with innocent until proven guilty,

Unless its a false rape accusation case. Then you apparently are innocent even when proven guilty .

anewme

Clayton Cool AcrossL wrote: »

I'm not convinced that this is cut and dry at all.

They are getting a lot of pushback now in Israel as well now as people can see its not stacking up and there are too many questions not answered.

Captain Flaps

Captain Flaps wrote: »

statistically speaking if someone claims they were raped the likelihood is not that they felt bad about a consensual encounter after the fact.

Well thankfully court cases are based on evidence and not statistics.

Was it not demonstrably proven that the woman lied about two people being there that were not?

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unless its a false rape accusation case. Then you apparently are innocent even when proven guilty .

She wasn't "proven" guilty though given that no evidence to support her claim was allowed to be introduced

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well thankfully court cases are based on evidence and not statistics.

Was it not demonstrably proven that the woman lied about two people being there that were not?

Source for this? at least one of the people mistakenly identified as being present was named by one of the men, not the woman.

One eyed Jack

Holly13 wrote: »

Yes we don’t know what happened because it wasn’t investigated properly. Her conviction is ridiculous.

Her conviction was for public mischief, I don’t see how it’s ridiculous when there was sufficient evidence to secure a conviction?


Judge Michalis Papathanasiou told the court he would not be jailing her, despite insisting that all the evidence suggested she was guilty.

He told the packed courtroom: "I admit, I have been troubled over this.

"All the evidence shows that she had lied and prevented the police from doing other serious jobs.

"Twelve people were arrested and seven of them were there for at least 10 days. That was also a serious offence.

"Her psychological state, her youth, that she has been away from her family, her friends and academic studies this year, this has led me to decide to give her a second chance and suspend the sentence for three years."


Cyprus gang rape claim teen heading home to UK after judge gives her 'second chance'


Under the circumstances, a suspended sentence is a reasonable outcome.

Holly13

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Only as rediculous as the accusation against the lads

Why is someone reporting a supposed crime ridiculous?

Holly13

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Her conviction was for public mischief, I don’t see how it’s ridiculous when there was sufficient evidence to secure a conviction?


Judge Michalis Papathanasiou told the court he would not be jailing her, despite insisting that all the evidence suggested she was guilty.

He told the packed courtroom: "I admit, I have been troubled over this.

"All the evidence shows that she had lied and prevented the police from doing other serious jobs.

"Twelve people were arrested and seven of them were there for at least 10 days. That was also a serious offence.

"Her psychological state, her youth, that she has been away from her family, her friends and academic studies this year, this has led me to decide to give her a second chance and suspend the sentence for three years."


Cyprus gang rape claim teen heading home to UK after judge gives her 'second chance'


Under the circumstances, a suspended sentence is a reasonable outcome.

What was the sufficient evidence? The dodgy confession?

dalyboy

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Theres no confirmation that the video is actually of this event is there? But yeah a girl appears to be enjoying group sex, therefore this girl is definitely a spiteful bitch out for revenge

Affirming the consequent formalogical fallacy

The coverage of this case on mainstream media that I heard implied she was gang raped and it was to do with the Cypriots kowtowing to Israel and it was a horrendous miscarriage of justice (CNN).

No mention was made of a film.

FFS you can't believe anything these days.

Just googled it there and the mention of a film on their mobiles is buried deep down in a few articles amid all the outrage.

No wonder the judge said it wasn't a rape case - assuming the film showed enthusiastic consent there is no rape case.

I genuinely hope the girl was lying. There may indeed be things we don't know but as it stands, I am satisfied that there was enough evidence (that we aren't privvy to) for the judge to come to his verdict.

I am sick to my back teeth of this becoming a "#ibelieveher vs She was gagging for it" fiasco.

The end of the day, both parties lives have been changed forever, and the best possible outcome would be that the girl was lying. Until proven otherwise, that is what I will believe.

mlem123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I genuinely hope the girl was lying. There may indeed be things we don't know but as it stands, I am satisfied that there was enough evidence (that we aren't privvy to) for the judge to come to his verdict.

I am sick to my back teeth of this becoming a "#ibelieveher vs She was gagging for it" fiasco.

The end of the day, both parties lives have been changed forever, and the best possible outcome would be that the girl was lying. Until proven otherwise, that is what I will believe.

Whether she lied or not, she should have been entitled to due process, legal representation, and a fair trial, and there is evidence that she received neither

One eyed Jack

Holly13 wrote: »

What was the sufficient evidence? The dodgy confession?

It wouldn’t matter whether anyone outside the courtroom considered the evidence presented sufficient or insufficient. The fact is that the Judge in the case who was aware of all the evidence and the facts in the case decided that the evidence was sufficient to warrant a conviction and sentencing. The Judge is bound to be familiar with the law in Cypriot society.

Holly13

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It wouldn’t matter whether anyone outside the courtroom considered the evidence presented sufficient or insufficient. The fact is that the Judge in the case who was aware of all the evidence and the facts in the case decided that the evidence was sufficient to warrant a conviction and sentencing. The Judge is bound to be familiar with the law in Cypriot society.

Dodgy confessions always matter.
Watch Unbelievable on Netflix. Girl raped who was pressured by police to say she made it all up and was convicted in New York. She was indeed a victim of a rapist who went onto to attack multiple women in different States in America. It is a true story.

ceadaoin.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It wouldn’t matter whether anyone outside the courtroom considered the evidence presented sufficient or insufficient. The fact is that the Judge in the case who was aware of all the evidence and the facts in the case decided that the evidence was sufficient to warrant a conviction and sentencing. The Judge is bound to be familiar with the law in Cypriot society.

How was the judge aware of "all" the evidence when he refused to consider any that supported her claim of rape, including a doctors testimony? Seems more like he had already decided the outcome and got the job done without even any attempt at a fair trial.

One eyed Jack

Holly13 wrote: »

Dodgy confessions always matter.
Watch Unbelievable on Netflix. Girl raped who was pressured by police to say she made it all up and was convicted in New York. She was indeed a victim of a rapist who went onto to attack multiple women in different States in America. It is a true story.

Evidence matters. It was up to the prosecution in this particular case to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt-

If the court is informed that a confession may have been obtained by oppression or in consequence of anything said or done by any person in authority that might make the confession unreliable, the prosecution is required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not obtained by oppression or inducement.

The prosecution succeeded in making their case in this particular circumstance.

Prosecuting rape complainants who retract


That Netflix drama is based upon a different case and set of circumstances entirely. This case wasn’t about whether or not she was raped. The prosecution was only concerned with making the case that she was guilty of the charge of public mischief.

One eyed Jack

ceadaoin. wrote: »

How was the judge aware of "all" the evidence when he refused to consider any that supported her claim of rape, including a doctors testimony? Seems more like he had already decided the outcome and got the job done without even any attempt at a fair trial.

The case wasn’t about determining whether or not the young woman had been the victim of rape. It was about determining whether or not the prosecution could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she was guilty of the charge of public mischief.

carolmon

This is an interesting article and contain texts the woman sent to her friends from the police station during questioning.

I think it shows her confusion and how she felt things were changing from when she made the complaint.

It also detailed how her Israeli boyfriend stated that he and his friends were all going to have sex with her that night

It seems to be something they had pre-planned.

It also mentions details about bruising and scratches to some of the the accused.

It's amazing they let them leave the country so quickly.... there are definitely indicators of a cover up.


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9653280/ayia-napa-gang-rape-student-confession-forced/