Lady can't have her hairy balls waxed [mod notes/warnings in post #1]

It's just all so silly. I can't believe adults have to talk about this.

coffee_cake

Neyite wrote: »

There's a narcissistic attention seeking element for sure. Like, attending the hearing in a ball gown and tiara for example. But I do think that the way their messages to teen girls and other beauticians about periods or helping in a bathroom is pointing to at least an unhealthy obsession if not something that is a turn on for them.

And considering a women's shelter was targeted by some "coalition against trans antagonism" and lost its funding because men weren't allowed in a women's shelter... There's definitely women hatred going on

Wibbs

bluewolf wrote: »

And considering a women's shelter was targeted by some "coalition against trans antagonism" and lost its funding because men weren't allowed in a women's shelter... There's definitely women hatred going on

I'd agree. When the subject comes up even the most extreme of men's rights activists call for separate shelters for male victims of domestic abuse.

The small but bloody loud minority of trans activists, especially online seem to have a real bee in their bonnets about women. Some, like the subject of this thread have an additional fetish about some aspect of womanhood, on top of specifically looking for, enabling and hoping for any sign of "transphobia" they can find and exploit. Others like the above "lesbian with a beard " are just taking the absolute piss. Hell, by that metric I'm a "lesbian with a beard" and anyone who says different is a phobic of some sort. Madness.

skybox2014

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you know Irish LGBT rights groups are lobbying for the state to have the right to take your children off you if they think there trans. You or you partner don't get a say. They also want trans to be stupidly easily to identify as and the legit therapy is to transition.

Do you have a source for this? Genuinely interested.

Omackeral

JayZeus wrote: »

The scientific viewpoint is the only one that's relevant when considering human reproduction. The social viewpoint has no place at all in relation to gender identification of a person who can procreate, specifically in the context of whether it's a man or a woman contibuting their part to the mix. A male is a man, a female is a woman when looking at reproductive biology and endocrinology, at least outside of the current trend of twisting language to endorse particular forms of social activism.

It's science. Stick with what we know to be true, which is that men do not become pregnant. Not even when you manipulate language. This comes down to the very meaning of 'man' and 'woman' in the most fundamental senses of those words.

Ya see this is what gets my goat. We're being told, not asked, to use preferred pronouns. Moreover, we're being told that preferred pronouns are undeniably ''correct'' and that's what a large percentage of the userbase seems to take umbrage with. We're manipulating language based on feelings. I'm wondering is it going to end up with us having to say that men can give birth to babies?

Again, I'll say it, if you want to make it law of the land in LGBT fora that you must use preferred pronouns I'd totally say that's understandable as you'd deem them to be safe spaces. I've generally no issue referring to trans people by their preferred pronouns in person or in casual conversation out of respect and courtesy to them but when debating and discussing things, there should absolutely be room for scientific merit.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Omackeral wrote: »

Ya see this is what gets my goat. We're being told, not asked, to use preferred pronouns. Moreover, we're being told that preferred pronouns are undeniably ''correct'' and that's what a large percentage of the userbase seems to take umbrage with. We're manipulating language based on feelings. I'm wondering is it going to end up with us having to say that men can give birth to babies?

Again, I'll say it, if you want to make it law of the land in LGBT fora that you must use preferred pronouns I'd totally say that's understandable as you'd deem them to be safe spaces. I've generally no issue referring to trans people by their preferred pronouns in person or in casual conversation out of respect and courtesy to them but when debating and discussing things, there should absolutely be room for scientific merit.

The fact that this is boards policy is making want to end my association with the site tbh. I also don't understand why such a policy should extend beyond the LGBT forum.

Omackeral

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The fact that this is boards policy is making want to end my association with the site tbh. I also don't understand why such a policy should extend beyond the LGBT forum.

It's a private site, we're simply guests essentially. It's their prerogative. I do agree with you somewhat though.

MrFresh

DanDan6592 wrote: »

The fact that this is boards policy is making want to end my association with the site tbh. I also don't understand why such a policy should extend beyond the LGBT forum.

Because transgender people aren't confined to the LGBT forum.

p1akuw47h5r3it

Omackeral wrote: »

It's a private site, we're simply guests essentially. It's their prerogative. I do agree with you somewhat though.

No I'm aware they can do as they please. I see politics.ie still exists, I thought it had shut down. Think I'll GDPR my account. Has been a nice 11 years though!

p1akuw47h5r3it

MrFresh wrote: »

Because transgender people aren't confined to the LGBT forum.

And? Why is it just assumed that Trans-people will be falling over themselves in offence if they see another trans-person being misgendered, intentional or not?

The irony in this is that instead of advancing trans acceptance, the constant bludgeoning of biological truth and suppression of expression will turn people away from debate and into their own little echo chambers where they will be allowed to air their views and have no dissenting voices.

You only have to look at Antifa or Trump threads. Everyones view is so deeply entrenched there is no hope of rational discussion. Not one person who stands on either side of the divide can get a point across without a snarky or aggressive rebuttal from someone on the other side. This just causes a snowball of aggression and no points are made and no middle ground will be found.

(Fwiw, I am just as guilty of the above as anyone else)

The trans issue will be worse as no dissenting view is allowed unless you use "rightspeak".

skybox2014

This is a long read - 14 pages, single spaces, including references. Essential reading for anyone concerned with the cavalier approach to the treatment of children and adolescents with gender dysphoria.

The Tavistock’s Experiment with Puberty Blockers by MichaelBiggs, Department of Sociology and St Cross College, University of Oxford. (version 1.0.1,29 July 2019)
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf

The Tavistock runs a satellite clinic at Our Lady’s Hospital in Crumlin four times a year, but families must seek help under the treatment abroad scheme to access the Dublin clinic. Apparantly the HSE is developing a transgender model of care - I shudder to think what kind of bad practice they are importing from the UK.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/transgender-youth-hit-by-lack-of-services-438247.html

ingalway

klaaaz wrote: »

Science has changed that in the 21st century, you'd need to move on from the pre-21st century backward attitude and embrace science of progression for humankind.

Much of the main stream media and health services now refer to someone who is pregnant as a pregnant person and not a pregnant women in case of offense to trans people. Women do not have periods, you just say menstuators, interestingly men are never refered to as ejaculators. It's not women who need to have cervical screening it's anyone with a cervix (aka women)

Trans men are "men" having children but the hope is in the future there will be uterus transplants into trans women (it is already being pursued). Of course the uterus for transplant will be coming from... a woman! But of course never forget Trans women are women; just don't ever expect them to donate a uterus. The following is totally mind boggling:

“There’s nothing inherently feminine or womanly about conception, pregnancy, or delivery. No body part, nor bodily function, is inherently gendered..."
https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/can-men-get-pregnant#if-you-have-a-uterus-and-ovaries

When you actually think about what is being said it is continual erasure of biological women. Many women are trying to push back against this but are constantly being bullied and silenced by TRA's (mostly men). Women really need men to start strongly supporting them to question, challenge and make people aware of exactly what is going on before it goes any further.

drunkmonkey

Pretty significant ruling on equal rights in sport for women and biological men announced today.

Caster Semenya will not defend her world 800m title in Doha in September after a Swiss judge overruled a temporary suspension on the IAAF's controversial testosterone-curbing rules, her representatives said Tuesday. https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/semenya-miss-doha-worlds-after-swiss-court-ruling-doc-1j77ih9

This has knock on effects for intersex and transgender athletes, In Semenya's case, the court voted 2-1 to uphold proposed rules issued by international track's governing body, the IAAF, saying that they are discriminatory but that "such discrimination is a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means" of "preserving the integrity of female athletics."

Wibbs

ingalway wrote: »

“There’s nothing inherently feminine or womanly about conception, pregnancy, or delivery. No body part, nor bodily function, is inherently gendered..."
https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/can-men-get-pregnant#if-you-have-a-uterus-and-ovaries

That's some of the most mind bendingly idiotic nonsense I've read in a while and I've read quite a bit. And we're back to lady dick and boy vag. No. Bugger off you damned deluded fools.

When you actually think about what is being said it is continual erasure of biological women. Many women are trying to push back against this but are constantly being bullied and silenced by TRA's (mostly men). Women really need men to start strongly supporting them to question, challenge and make people aware of exactly what is going on before it goes any further.

Well I think erasure is going too far(though a little respect is a gr8 track), but it certainly needs watching and constant questioning of some truly insane "progressive" bullshite that seems to contain even more added shite as the years go by.

Now I'm about as not on board with modern feminism as it's possible to get, but I'm with the so called "TERF's" on this point.

MrFresh

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Pretty significant ruling on equal rights in sport for women and biological men announced today.

Caster Semenya will not defend her world 800m title in Doha in September after a Swiss judge overruled a temporary suspension on the IAAF's controversial testosterone-curbing rules, her representatives said Tuesday. https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/semenya-miss-doha-worlds-after-swiss-court-ruling-doc-1j77ih9

This has knock on effects for intersex and transgender athletes, In Semenya's case, the court voted 2-1 to uphold proposed rules issued by international track's governing body, the IAAF, saying that they are discriminatory but that "such discrimination is a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means" of "preserving the integrity of female athletics."

Not really significant. The ruling on the actual appeal is still pending. Just out of curiosity, which changing room would you allow that athlete in?

Wibbs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Pretty significant ruling on equal rights in sport for women and biological men announced today.

Caster Semenya will not defend her world 800m title in Doha in September after a Swiss judge overruled a temporary suspension on the IAAF's controversial testosterone-curbing rules, her representatives said Tuesday. https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/semenya-miss-doha-worlds-after-swiss-court-ruling-doc-1j77ih9

TBH I've a lot of sympathy for folks like Caster, she's genetically and physically intersex, born like that. It's her natural state. She isn't a biological male who transitioned at 20 or 30 after having gone through male puberty and all the advantages that brings. Until such times as tests like brain scans etc can show intersex in the brain(which I strongly suspect they will) then folks like Castor are a different group altogether. Then again from what I've read the Trans activists are dead set against such tests if they ever came along and demand it be always down to self identity.

p1akuw47h5r3it

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Pretty significant ruling on equal rights in sport for women and biological men announced today.

Caster Semenya will not defend her world 800m title in Doha in September after a Swiss judge overruled a temporary suspension on the IAAF's controversial testosterone-curbing rules, her representatives said Tuesday. https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/semenya-miss-doha-worlds-after-swiss-court-ruling-doc-1j77ih9

This has knock on effects for intersex and transgender athletes, In Semenya's case, the court voted 2-1 to uphold proposed rules issued by international track's governing body, the IAAF, saying that they are discriminatory but that "such discrimination is a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means" of "preserving the integrity of female athletics."

I feel for her as she was born intersex or with a naturally high testosterone level for a women.

ceadaoin.

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I feel for her as she was born intersex or with a naturally high testosterone level for a women.

Semenya is a male with XY chromosomes and testes, and has known this for at least 10 years. So, not a case of "naturally high testosterone for a woman" , but a normal one for a male.

mcmoustache

MrFresh wrote: »

Not really significant. The ruling on the actual appeal is still pending. Just out of curiosity, which changing room would you allow that athlete in?

I would say both and let her pick whichever one she prefers.

mcmoustache

DanDan6592 wrote: »

I feel for her as she was born intersex or with a naturally high testosterone level for a women.

And intersex has little to do with trans stuff anyway. There's a debate to be had for sure with regard to intersex and sport but I think that bringing up intersex people in trans discussions tends to muddy things up.

mcmoustache

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Semenya is a male with XY chromosomes and testes, and has known this for at least 10 years. So, not a case of "naturally high testosterone for a woman" , but a normal one for a male.

She's got lady bits too, though, doesn't she? I don't know... her situation is very exceptional.

drunkmonkey

mcmoustache wrote: »

And intersex has little to do with trans stuff anyway. There's a debate to be had for sure with regard to intersex and sport but I think that bringing up intersex people in trans discussions tends to muddy things up.

Same T level rules there bound by. Casters genatalia has never been reported. I'll believe it when I see it they've got both.

The female range for testosterone is categorically different from the male range. In general, males have 10 to 30 times more T than females. Most females, including most elite female athletes, have T levels in the range of 0.5 to 1.5 nanomoles per liter (nmol/L). For men, typical values are 10 to 35 nmol/L. The reason there is a gap, with no overlap between the ranges, is that beginning in puberty, the testes produce a lot more T than ovaries and adrenal glands combined. And so the IAAF maximum of 5 nmol/L for women has been set, generously, to reflect the upper bound of T levels that can be produced even by polycystic ovaries.

Glass fused light

Wibbs wrote: »

Like I posted before IMHO there are three genders; Female, Male, Intersex. Three sexualities; Straight, Gay, Bisexual(with asexuality in the mix as a fourth) and all the identities will fit within that above lot quite comfortably.

A lot of intersexed people would not agree that they are a third sex.
Rather that that they have a birth anomaly. 
Where most live births have only  two 'sex' chromosome  XX  or XY they have an additional X or Y or could have only one. The single chromosome would usually be fatal. The additional combinations are individual groups.

I believe that there was a link posted to the site run by a woman who is intersexed.

Dante7

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH I've a lot of sympathy for folks like Caster, she's genetically and physically intersex, born like that. It's her natural state. She isn't a biological male who transitioned at 20 or 30 after having gone through male puberty and all the advantages that brings. Until such times as tests like brain scans etc can show intersex in the brain(which I strongly suspect they will) then folks like Castor are a different group altogether. Then again from what I've read the Trans activists are dead set against such tests if they ever came along and demand it be always down to self identity.

Castor is 46 XY. Clear cut case of biological male. No need for brain scans there.

p1akuw47h5r3it

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Semenya is a male with XY chromosomes and testes, and has known this for at least 10 years. So, not a case of "naturally high testosterone for a woman" , but a normal one for a male.

Wasn't aware that that was the case

p1akuw47h5r3it

mcmoustache wrote: »

And intersex has little to do with trans stuff anyway. There's a debate to be had for sure with regard to intersex and sport but I think that bringing up intersex people in trans discussions tends to muddy things up.

Indeed it does.

ingalway

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Semenya is a male with XY chromosomes and testes, and has known this for at least 10 years. So, not a case of "naturally high testosterone for a woman" , but a normal one for a male.

At birth Caster's parents were advised to raise her as female which means she has been socialised female all her life, although she is XY. I really feel for her, it's a very difficult situation but I don't believe the rules can/should be changed to fix a rare and hard case. This case could have been resolved years ago but the ruling bodies swept it under the carpet not realising the trans wave was coming to totally blow it all up.

mcmoustache

Deleted User wrote: »

The trans issue will be worse as no dissenting view is allowed unless you use "rightspeak".

I don't know about it getting worse. Of course, you're correct that dissent isn't tolerated but I think that the absurdities are starting to get people's attention.


I think that when ordinarily socially progressive people were supporting trans rights, they probably thought that they were supporting the rights of people who transitioned to be recognised in law as their post-op sex. I don't think that they thought they were supporting people who like to dress as a caricature of the opposite sex like the "lesbian" who's bio and image I posted earlier.



There were probably others who supported trans rights without seeing where these right might clash with the rights of other vulnerable groups like women in shelters. I mean there's no getting away from the fact that these rights clash - should vulnerable women have the right to a safe space free of trans women who used to be men or should they be made to suck it up and include trans women? There's no getting away from the fact that something has to give here and it seems that it was vulnerable women this time around.


I think that a lot of people who didn't give it much thought will have more questions as more information gets out.

ingalway

Wibbs wrote: »

That's some of the most mind bendingly idiotic nonsense I've read in a while and I've read quite a bit. And we're back to lady dick and boy vag. No. Bugger off you damned deluded fools.

Well I think erasure is going too far(though a little respect is a gr8 track), but it certainly needs watching and constant questioning of some truly insane "progressive" bullshite that seems to contain even more added shite as the years go by.

Now I'm about as not on board with modern feminism as it's possible to get, but I'm with the so called "TERF's" on this point.

Ha! Yes the Erasure track is a good one for sure.

When I say "erasure of women" I don't mean the literal doing away of all women (just the uppity ones who won't conform probably) - it wouldn't take trans women long to detransition if they actually had to take on the role of women - I meant more the erasure of women as a distinct sex class. The words to describe things that are inherently and obviously female are being eroded and that is dangerous e.g. she is pregnant becomes he or they is pregnant. Women's health issues become people's health issues even the simple term of woman is constantly changed to ciswoman. Will we have cisdaughter/wife/girlfriend/sister/mother/aunt? The more this happens the sooner women lose their single sex spaces, sports and autonomy.