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Lady can't have her hairy balls waxed [mod notes/warnings in post #1]

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    #1172
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    @Dante7 - 1 day ban for ignoring multiple mod instructions

    dudara


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    #1173
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,141 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    MrFresh wrote: »
    But is there any case of self ID actually enabling it?

    Um..this case? You know, the one that this entire thread has been about. The one where the person extorted money from several women who refused to touch a penis and put some out of business. All legal. And where the women accused of bigotry found it hard to even find a lawyer who would represent them. The one where the person in question can stroll into women's toilet and take pictures of teenage girls because they say they are actually a woman.

    Are you still pretending that nope, it never happens? What planet are you on?


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    #1174
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Actually that brings up another question; are these 50 odd pronouns ze, zir and all that bloody nonsense now present in other languages like French or Spanish, or Chinese, or is it just in the English speaking world influenced by the loons on US campuses and "woke" media?

    Think you can probably answer that yourself....

    I note the recent consternation among Spanish speakers at the usage of Latinx as a descriptor among certain quarters. Complete fabrication and nonsensical grammatically.


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    #1175
    greencap
    Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭greencap


    Discuss the person's actions all you want, but from here on in, use the correct pronouns.

    I refuse to use forced pronouns.

    So better I just not participate.

    discussion/2058195983/russia-threadbanned-users-in-op/p3135

    😁



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    #1176
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    greencap wrote: »
    I refuse to use forced pronouns.

    So better I just not participate.


    And that's exactly what they want isn't it: be silenced or be banned!



    GG Boards, GG. Nice while it lasted.


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    #1177
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Think you can probably answer that yourself....
    I had the suspicion alright AT.
    I note the recent consternation among Spanish speakers at the usage of Latinx as a descriptor among certain quarters. Complete fabrication and nonsensical grammatically.
    and clearly not from Spanish. Never mind that if they're trying to add an extra gender, or non gender or whatever to latina and latina, there's an existing one; Latin. Job done.

    But nope, as western society becomes increasingly self involved and identity and self identity driven each clan needs they're own special label. And of course irony of ironies, the same eejits coming up with these labels are usually and certainly historically were the first to start whinging about being labelled. There was a good point to that, but as usual when one builds a politic or philosophic machine to affect change and change comes the machine keeps running to keep looking for more and they're afraid to turn the damned thing off.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1178
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    greencap wrote: »
    I refuse to use forced pronouns.

    So better I just not participate.

    I can see why that would be fair enough in the LGBT forum but on a forum entitled IMHO it's certainly ironic or misguided. Sad really.


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    #1179
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I can see why that would be fair enough in the LGBT forum but on a forum entitled IMHO it's certainly ironic or misguided. Sad really.


    I wonder if Kim Jong Un has purchased Boards.. .. .. .. .. Maybe Putin? Hmm.


    57bd7eefce38f252008b8864-320-240.jpg


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    #1180
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Think you can probably answer that yourself....

    I note the recent consternation among Spanish speakers at the usage of Latinx as a descriptor among certain quarters. Complete fabrication and nonsensical grammatically.

    i always thought it was a shortcut for latina/latino


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    #1181
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Actually that brings up another question; are these 50 odd pronouns ze, zir and all that bloody nonsense now present in other languages like French or Spanish, or Chinese, or is it just in the English speaking world influenced by the loons on US campuses and "woke" media?

    Isn't Irish a gendered language? So these pronouns can't exist if using it.
    I wasn't great at Irish btw.


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    #1182
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    bluewolf wrote: »
    i always thought it was a shortcut for latina/latino
    It's a pretty recent thing B and all about the right on "pronouns" stuff, like I said if you wanted to be gender neutral you'd use "Latin" and be done with it. Again though it's much more a specifically United States thing leaking into Latin American culture, or attempting to. And decidedly Anglo with it as adding X like that doesn't exactly fly off the tongue en Espa

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1183
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wibbs wrote: »
    It's a pretty recent thing B and all about the right on "pronouns" stuff, like I said if you wanted to be gender neutral you'd use "Latin" and be done with it. Again though it's much more a specifically United States thing leaking into Latin American culture, or attempting to. And decidedly Anglo with it as adding X like that doesn't exactly fly off the tongue en Espa

    I'd love to see them try that with the French, be a pretty short conversation I'd wager.


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    #1184
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,448 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Arrested for committing what crime?





    Sometimes alarms go off when nothing is wrong though.


    That's actually a really creepy post but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.


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    #1185
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Isn't Irish a gendered language? So these pronouns can't exist if using it.
    I wasn't great at Irish btw.
    You raise an interesting question D. English is a bit of an odd man(woman/whateveryou'rehavingyourself) out among languages in that it's not very "gendered at all. One of the few words that is gendered in the english language is "blond", "blonde" is the female noun. In French you have la/le and that goes for most European languages. Most, all the way back to Latin have three(male/female/neuter) when describing people or things.

    So maybe the English language is getting this pronoun soup, simply because it's easier to do it? And that it's the anglosphere, specifically the north american culture, or a small part of it that holds more sway in media and some policy areas pushing for this pronoun soup to make identity politics people happy to identify as one "special" group or other? That's a natural human thing, but that doesn't always make it wise or healthy.

    Gender identity types must have a major headmelt with French, Spanish, Italian, etc, where damn near everything has an accepted "gender".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1186
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Gender identity types must have a major headmelt with French, Spanish, Italian, etc, where damn near everything has an accepted "gender".

    Not really, gender identity types as you put it switch genders so there is continued usage of the said languages without a problem.

    As for non-binary people, it must be horrific for them to be forced to use gendered language where they are not recognised within that language.


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    #1187
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    They are recognised, there's only 2 genders. They happen to be one of them. They have a disorder if they consider it dehumanising to be medically and scientifically accepted as one.

    Can we brake it down.
    L - like women, in the 2 gender camp
    G - like the same gender.
    B - even by their name acknowledge 2 genders, Bi = 2
    T - want to be one of 2 genders.

    Once you start adding more letters it starts to go beyond logic and reason. I suppose the most famous non binary is Kate Dillon, born a girl but is a non binary pansexual. My opinion she fits the criteria for being bisexual. The non binary and pansexual bit is nonsense and we should not change our language to suit these disorders.


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    #1188
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    klaaaz wrote: »
    As for non-binary people, it must be horrific for them to be forced to use gendered language where they are not recognised within that language.
    "Non binary". Looking that definition up and it seems it's hard to pin down a definition even for those saying they're non binary, but basically it's a description of someone whose gender identity isn’t exclusively male or female. What the hell does that even mean? For a start it's labelling male and female as hard gender concepts with pretty defined roles, interests and personalities and there was me thinking they were fluid and social constructs.

    So how do they measure their non binary status? A woman who doesn't like "girlie" things and is much more "male" in her/zer/zir:rolleyes: interests and personality? As far as sexuality goes a woman who is a lesbian? A man who hates sports and prefers knitting? A man who prefers pink to blue(which would vary over history too)What? Gender fluid? A man who is more "girlie" one day and more "manly" another?

    You see in order to go off and self define as "non binary" one has to define the binary states in the first place and I thought we were supposed to be getting away from all that? That men and women were well, people and varied as individuals? But it seems not and it seems that the "progressives" have a very narrow definition of gender, based somewhere in the 1950s in a lot of ways.

    Sound to me like self labelling mental gymnastics and oft onanism to add another flag to how great one is. Not far off someone telling you they're a libra with a capricorn rising or whatever. Makes them feel better about themselves and their place in the world and that's 100% fine BTW and I'll possess the manners not to take the piss to their face, just like I would with someone faffing on about healing crystals and burning sage, but as a politic or philosophy and worse a top down mandated one in some quarters? Nope. G'way outa that.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1189
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    They are recognised, there's only 2 genders.
    I wouldn't agree with this. Even biologically. There are three genders; male, female, intersex. Now the latter is a "fault" but it's a 1 in every 3000(?) births so a common enough one and throughout history many cultures acknowledged three genders. Some go further, but they're essentially sub dividing the third. The current gender "identities" do similar, with added sexuality definitions thrown in.
    I suppose the most famous non binary is Kate Dillon, born a girl but is a non binary pansexual. My opinion she fits the criteria for being bisexual.
    IIRC and I will doubtless need updating on this, as it's hard to keep track; the difference is they're more attracted to men and women who like them reject the idea of binary gender, whereas bisexuals don't have that criteria. Again though it's a subdivision of bisexuality.

    Like I posted before IMHO there are three genders; Female, Male, Intersex. Three sexualities; Straight, Gay, Bisexual(with asexuality in the mix as a fourth) and all the identities will fit within that above lot quite comfortably.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1190
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Wibbs, yes the non-binary's don't believe that they are fully part of the binary genders male and female. And on the other side, there is staunch defence from people some of whom are conservative to defend the traditional binary genders in Western culture. I don't understand the the non-binary either, they are different to transgender people who switch genders to either male or female. The non-binary people in this country prefer their pronouns to be they/them and not he/she. The ze/zer/zir seems to be an American thing.


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    #1191
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    I'm with you Wibbs was going to mention the 3rd but didn't.

    Klaaaz, you mentioned the conservatives, the defence is coming both from the left, center and right. It's the hard left pushing this which has pushed people who would be leftist straight over to the right.
    In the latest survey of 16-34yr old acceptance of LGBT has dropped by 20% in the last year. There's a clash of tribes brewing and it's been caused by the left being to leftooney for most.


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    #1192
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Wibbs, yes the non-binary's don't believe that they are fully part of the binary genders male and female. And on the other side, there is staunch defence from people some of whom are conservative to defend the traditional binary genders in Western culture.
    Which does sound one is a reaction, even over reaction to the other. I wonder if you looked at cultures with less strict definitions of being male and female you'd find fewer non binary individuals than you'd find in cultures where those definitions are stricter?

    I can see why it kicked off more in a culture like the US. American culture has a few characteristics but one of them is internal contradiction. So you get more hard dialled in views on a position(almost any) and more polarities and that goes for sexuality and gender expression. I mean we often see America as guns god and conservative, yet a huge chunk of modern progressive thought is and was American in origin.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1193
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,246 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I'm with you Wibbs was going to mention the 3rd but didn't.

    Klaaaz, you mentioned the conservatives, the defence is coming both from the left, center and right. It's the hard left pushing this which has pushed people who would be leftist straight over to the right.
    In the latest survey of 16-34yr old acceptance of LGBT has dropped by 20% in the last year. There's a clash of tribes brewing and it's been caused by the left being to leftooney for most.
    Can you post a link? thanks


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    #1194
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,141 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Wibbs, yes the non-binary's don't believe that they are fully part of the binary genders male and female. And on the other side, there is staunch defence from people some of whom are conservative to defend the traditional binary genders in Western culture. I don't understand the the non-binary either, they are different to transgender people who switch genders to either male or female. The non-binary people in this country prefer their pronouns to be they/them and not he/she. The ze/zer/zir seems to be an American thing.

    Personally, I think the whole non binary thing is nonsense and a sign of an outdated way of thinking. Sex is a binary, male and female, but gender isn't. I'd love it if more people could feel free to be gender non conforming, because gender stereotypes are a load of nonsense. What's wrong with a man wearing make up or traditionally "feminine" clothes? Nothing. But no, in this day and age it seems like people (and men in particular) can't do this. So they have to be "non binary" and become a special protected group in order to just be themselves. I mean, it's just clothes.


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    #1195
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    gmisk wrote: »
    Can you post a link? thanks

    I'm wrong on my percentages it was a few days ago I read it, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-acceptance-millennials-decline-glaad-survey/1503758001/

    The point remains the same, this push from the left is having the opposite effect the LGBT community want. What's the lefts response, create more awareness. That'll end well.


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    #1196
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,246 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I'm wrong on my percentages it was a few days ago I read it, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/06/24/lgbtq-acceptance-millennials-decline-glaad-survey/1503758001/
    63-53-45 is a fairly worrying trend. It would be interesting to see something similar from an Irish POV. The crime statistics in that are also very worrying tbh.


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    #1197
    ingalway
    Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ingalway


    Wibbs wrote:
    I wouldn't agree with this. Even biologically. There are three genders; male, female, intersex. Now the latter is a "fault" but it's a 1 in every 3000(?) births so a common enough one and throughout history many cultures acknowledged three genders. Some go further, but they're essentially sub dividing the third. The current gender "identities" do similar, with added sexuality definitions thrown in.

    There are 2 sexes, male and female + Intersex. It is not gender, it is sex. Using gender instead of sex continually confuses the issues here. You are not 'assigned' a gender at birth, your sex is observed, no one is forcing something on you, it is what you were born.
    As TRA's constantly state that gender is a social construct, which it is, and that is what is causing all their problems, why isn't transgender also a social construct?


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    #1198
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    gmisk wrote: »
    63-53-45 is a fairly worrying trend. It would be interesting to see something similar from an Irish POV. The crime statistics in that are also very worrying tbh.

    This thread is a perfect example, free speech is being shut down, opinion, free thought and expression aren't allowed and will be shut down by force.
    All those people are now on the right even if they are traditionally left leaning just not left leaning when it comes to regendering people and the hijacking of pronouns.

    I'd like to see the mood from Irish people, I'd also like to see stats on how many prisoners have applied for gender identity certs here, will they tally with the UK figures of 1 in 10 Travellers.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/

    There now also opening transgder wings and having special Transgender officers in prisons. Any hope of equality is being pushed further and further away from them as there now being segregated.
    This is why the JY case is so important to the trans movement, it's about granting every right a woman has. I'm sure JY doesn't want to be segregated with men identifying as women in prison as that's not what she's into. I'm sure that story will come down the line after this one finishes.


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    #1199
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ingalway wrote: »
    As TRA's constantly state that gender is a social construct, which it is, and that is what is causing all their problems, why isn't transgender also a social construct?
    Indeed. The social construct, nature/nurture thing is kinda running at cross purposes in this.

    Though I would argue gender isn't a social construct, at least not nearly to the degree the nurture over nature advocates would believe and increasingly promote. If it were then transgender as a condition would be even rarer. IMHO outside the level were there is little difference, at more fundamental levels there are such things as male and female brains, which give rise to male and female minds and subtle differences in how we view and interact with the world. I mean as a species we've had over a million years of selection pressures that show clear differences in physiology(and not just related to reproduction), yet we're supposed to believe that these differences somehow magically stop at the neck?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1200
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,106 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    As an aside; I do find it interesting that when the subject of transender comes up, it's almost exclusively around and about male to female transgender and this gets the most extreme views too. Female to male rarely raises its head, if at all. It's like they don't exist.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1201
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Personally, I think the whole non binary thing is nonsense and a sign of an outdated way of thinking. Sex is a binary, male and female, but gender isn't. I'd love it if more people could feel free to be gender non conforming, because gender stereotypes are a load of nonsense. What's wrong with a man wearing make up or traditionally "feminine" clothes? Nothing. But no, in this day and age it seems like people (and men in particular) can't do this. So they have to be "non binary" and become a special protected group in order to just be themselves. I mean, it's just clothes.

    Agree here, there is still such a strict conservative attitude among a section of the populace about what men can wear or not. Apparently some people get upset at the thought of some men who would like to wear feminine clothes or makeup, some nonsense about protecting traditional gender roles and gender norms.

    About non-binary. In my interactions with the lgbt community i've found that alot of non-binary people were female at birth and they're young(under 35). And so do some men who crossdress, they are not transgender. Those men just like the clothes & makeup in self expression which is wonderful and still need in 2019 a safe space to be out in public. This takes an enormous stressful toll on them, they are being forced to be that "special protected group" because of conservative attitudes to what people can wear for one's gender.


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