Garda shoots himself in the foot

The pigeon man

Cass wrote: »

This? From Friday.

Interesting they found two .22 calibre pistols. I wonder were pistols once legally held by someone else. It wouldn't be the ideal calibre for criminal activity, unless they wanted something quiet.

Chiparus

Cass wrote: »

This? From Friday.

The raid was on Wednesday, but not reported until Friday- which is unusual I would have thought.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/drugs-ammunition-and-guns-seized-in-louth-tallaght-and-limerick-1.3961916?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime-and-law%2Fdrugs-ammunition-and-guns-seized-in-louth-tallaght-and-limerick-1.3961916

Witcher

That's iust when the papers ran it, they were on the Garda FB page before then.

Grizzly 45

To add insult to injury... Just found out..The Garda that shot himself in the foot,was a Garda firearms instructor!!:eek::rolleyes:

tac foley

'Don't do as I do, just do as I tell you....'

Hobosan

tac foley wrote: »

'Don't do as I do, just do as I tell you....'

Yep, advising people not to shoot themselves in in the foot the whole time. Bloody hypocrites.

1874

Annabel Narrow Kindle wrote: »

If you can't carry a weapon loaded and ready to fire, you shouldn't be carrying a weapon at all. Many police forces, including some Garda units, use striker-fired pistol where decocking isn't an option once loaded.
Pistols are routinely carried on the body by plain-clothes Gardaí - you often see the telltale bulge under their jackets. I would hope they're carrying loaded, and ready to fire, otherwise they're not much use.

Annabel Narrow Kindle wrote: »

If you have reason to be carrying a weapon (outside of training), there should be a round in the chamber. If not, the weapon is as much a liability as a defence. Some organisations in Ireland do not follow this rule, and some do.
As it should be, if they have reason to be armed at all.
You're making a lot of assumptions. If they aren't carrying with a round in the chamber, they are liable to be disarmed in ambush, and are better off unarmed. No personnel should ever be travelling with a weapon locked in their vehicle without also carrying a sidearm - otherwise it would be trivial to disarm them.

I probably shouldnt be replying, but this sounds like Walter Mitty fantasist nonsense, the highlighted and the rest, as a former member of the Defense Forces, what you are saying sounds like tripe, what organisations? how many times have you heard of the Gardai being ambushed? I cant say what the Gardai are doing regarding how they carry their firearms, although this and other incidents Ive come across gives me little regard for their firearm handling skills, mainly your suggestion that its necessary to be going around with a chambered round. Plain and simple I hope they arent going about like that, especially with their tendency for NDs.

1874

AbdulAbhaile wrote: »

Didn't a suspect get shot in the face relatively recently by a negligent discharge.

How can these issues be resolved or is it just part and parcel for armed police?

One Garda got shot by a colleague armed with a shotgun, not sure if thats the incident you're referring to? I looked it up after and could find no record of it reported, but I recal it was online.
Issues resolved? Id say with training, which leads to how is the training? I'd question that, it seems like its lax if they are managing what they do. You would think that a trained professional would only be putting their finger on the trigger in certain circumstances, training at the range and then oly what they are trained for. Whatever their training is, it doesnt sound like it leads to a very disciplined force (the element that handle firearms) or regard for firearms handling.

gctest50

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

To add insult to injury... Just found out..The Garda that shot himself in the foot,was a Garda firearms instructor!!:eek::rolleyes:

This little piggy went to market.
This little piggy stayed home.
This little piggy had roast beef. ...
And this little piggy wasn't there any more because his owner couldn't use basic common sense procedures

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

To add insult to injury... Just found out..The Garda that shot himself in the foot,was a Garda firearms instructor!!:eek::rolleyes:

The latch on the boot of the gun must have been faulty.

Grizzly 45

1874 wrote: »

One Garda got shot by a colleague armed with a shotgun, not sure if thats the incident you're referring to?

2001 Abbeylix bank raid.Det Sgt J Eiffe RIP Outcome "Friendly fire"[Isn't] from a shotgun buckshot load

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/inquest-into-garda-death-at-bank-raid-delayed-due-to-appeals-25916176.html

Suspect being shot in the face.
Co Limerick 3 years ago outside Newcastlewest.Lithuinian national involved in a gang at a road block.Ruled accidental discharge [or in hunters terms "buck fever"].Major adrenaline dump into the system in those situations,vision narrows,breathing picks up,motor skills affected.Not a good place to be if you have never practised pr been in that situation alot. It is a very proable explanation as to why US LEO's have mag dumped their side arms into suspects/victims and reloaded and emptied a 2nd mag as well,and have not realised they have done such.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-shot-in-the-face-by-a-garda-in-co-limerick-1.2703763

solarwinds

Knowing a few of the AGS who are armed, lets just say I wouldn't be in a hurry to go out hunting with them, it seems that just because you are a member of the force automatically elevates you to Dirty Harry status.

1874

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

2001 Abbeylix bank raid.Det Sgt J Eiffe RIP Outcome "Friendly fire"[Isn't] from a shotgun buckshot load

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/inquest-into-garda-death-at-bank-raid-delayed-due-to-appeals-25916176.html

Suspect being shot in the face.
Co Limerick 3 years ago outside Newcastlewest.Lithuinian national involved in a gang at a road block.Ruled accidental discharge [or in hunters terms "buck fever"].Major adrenaline dump into the system in those situations,vision narrows,breathing picks up,motor skills affected.Not a good place to be if you have never practised pr been in that situation alot. It is a very proable explanation as to why US LEO's have mag dumped their side arms into suspects/victims and reloaded and emptied a 2nd mag as well,and have not realised they have done such.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-shot-in-the-face-by-a-garda-in-co-limerick-1.2703763

must be the latter one, only recently, I thought it was a Garda shot accidentally by another Garda, I'll openly say I'm not concerned about the criminal, more of it was a ND, if he got shot in a fracas then I wouldn't even think about it, but they state it was accidental. I was sure there was one in the last few years where a Garda was shot by a colleague, maybe I was mistaken.

rsole1

1874 wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

must be the latter one, only recently, I thought it was a Garda shot accidentally by another Garda, I'll openly say I'm not concerned about the criminal, more of it was a ND, if he got shot in a fracas then I wouldn't even think about it, but they state it was accidental. I was sure there was one in the last few years where a Garda was shot by a colleague, maybe I was mistaken.

I recall a shooting between AGS at Dublin Airport some years ago.

oldgit1897

I have known a few detectives, who did carry, and simply put, they were not gun guys like we are. They had zero interest in firearms apart from as a tool for their job, much the same as a pc or squad car.

Grizzly 45

It shows in alot of Supers and Cheifs attitudes to applicants...They draw from "their personal" experiances of carrying a firearm in a work situation and cant figure out why anyone would want these yokes for a hobby.

dc99

I know its out there on this thread that you gotta keep your finger of the trigger, but with all the gear that AGS carry - it is also possible that the trigger got caught on an article of equipment - particularly if the guy was in a seated position, reaching around to back seat or something?

freddieot

I would expect that their issued holsters cover the trigger guard area, in particular to stop this happening otherwise they are useless for normal carry.

dc99

I agree, but a lot of previous comments have pointed out that he should have kept the finger off the trigger - if the gun was holstered then it should not have ND'ed - cause he wouldn't be able to have his finger on the trigger.

UNLESS as previously mentioned - maybe it was an MP7 (?) then it would not have been in a holster.

tac foley

Having owned a H&K P7, I can tell you that the design is such that you really HAVE to intend to squeeze that trigger.

BattleCorp

Is it possible that the gun was faulty and a bump might have caused it to discharge? Unlikely but still a possibility?

tac foley

That's about as likely as the Tooth Fairy setting it off while he wasn't looking.

deerhunter1

MarkR wrote: »

Shot while on duty. He'll be on the pigs back. Forgive the pun.

retire on PTS and big compo

Grizzly 45

dc99 wrote: »

I agree, but a lot of previous comments have pointed out that he should have kept the finger off the trigger - if the gun was holstered then it should not have ND'ed - cause he wouldn't be able to have his finger on the trigger.

UNLESS as previously mentioned - maybe it was an MP7 (?) then it would not have been in a holster.

Or maybe he was just goofing around with it.Something he should have known better about if he was an instructor??

tac foley

It's what we call a 'footwell fumble' - a not-unusual occurrence when handguns are being fondled instead of holstered. Just think about the 'how' of getting shot in the foot whilst in a vehicle, and you'll get the picture.

Chiparus

tac foley wrote: »

It's what we call a 'footwell fumble' - a not-unusual occurrence when handguns are being fondled instead of holstered. Just think about the 'how' of getting shot in the foot whilst in a vehicle, and you'll get the picture.

Actually would be quite difficult to shoot ones foot in the car footwell I would have thought-

tac foley

Chiparus wrote: »

Actually would be quite difficult to shoot ones foot in the car footwell I would have thought-

Au contraire, dear Watson, imagine that you are sat in your car seat, meanwhile caressing your, ahem, cocked and loaded duty handgun, when your finger, in a fit of manic stupidity, engages the trigger and for reasons best known to only you and the G**d L**d, squeezes it.

The bullet will more likely than not, go downwards - either through your leg, or, this having happened to a police officer (a breed of men renowned in myth and legend as owners of overlarge feet), through one or both of them.

If not this way, then how?

When you have eliminated the impossible (like an angel or demon materialising in the car and 'helping things along'), whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth.

Or, while we are in a philosophisory mood, consider old Bill Occam and his shaving device.

IOW, what is THE most likely course of events?

Please tell us your version.

Chiparus

tac foley wrote: »

Au contraire, dear Watson, imagine that you are sat in your car seat, meanwhile caressing your, ahem, cocked and loaded duty handgun, when your finger, in a fit of manic stupidity, engages the trigger and for reasons best known to only you and the G**d L**d, squeezes it.

The bullet will more likely than not, go downwards - either through your leg, or, this having happened to a police officer (a breed of men renowned in myth and legend as owners of overlarge feet), through one or both of them.

If not this way, then how?

When you have eliminated the impossible (like an angel or demon materialising in the car and 'helping things along'), whatever remains, however improbable, is the truth.

Or, while we are in a philosophisory mood, consider old Bill Occam and his shaving device.

IOW, what is THE most likely course of events?

Please tell us your version.

The guard shot himself in the foot outside the car?

tac foley

Chiparus wrote: »

The guard shot himself in the foot outside the car?

Quote from the initial report - 'The officer, stationed in the south-west of the country, was injured after his weapon discharged while he was in a garda patrol vehicle.

Over to you, Sir.

Chiparus

You can believe the gardaí and what they say.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/firearms-licence-forms-altered-by-gardai-high-court-hears-181340.html


(He was not even shot in the foot, but in the ankle.)

tac foley

I think you'll find, in most cases, that the ankle is closely located to the foot, unless, of course, things are different where you live.

Right now, Sir, your record on 'quote-quoting' is batting a solid zero - MY quote -

News Irish News Thursday 25 July 2019

Probe launched after garda accidentally shoots himself in the foot

Soooooo, either put up, or................................

Chiparus

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-undergoes-surgery-after-accidentally-shooting-himself-in-foot-1.3961863

Apparently the gun was rotting away.

"The security source said it was always possible that some part of a gun may “degrade” which could possibly lead to a malfunction.'

Chiparus

tac foley wrote: »

I think you'll find, in most cases, that the ankle is closely located to the foot, unless, of course, things are different where you live.

Right now, Sir, your record on 'quote-quoting' is batting a solid zero - MY quote -

News Irish News Thursday 25 July 2019

Probe launched after garda accidentally shoots himself in the foot

Soooooo, either put up, or................................

Jeez you are in bad form Tac, You should take a chill and stop ranting, clearly you are getting upset ,

I am just questioning what I feel is an improbable story ( to me) about a guard about to take a break managing to shoot himself in the ankle.

solarwinds

I think the state may have a case there against SIG, I mean selling firearms that can accidentally go off all on there own, there is a serious health and safety risk there.
What could possibly fail in a gun that would cause a round to be chambered, pull back the hammer and pull the trigger ALL on its own without any human involvement that would cause it to fire.
I think what they need here is a young priest and an old priest to get to the bottom of that one.
I'm sure they will convince themselves that this NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE not accidental was a fault in the gun and not anything else.
Obviously all SIGs will need to be recalled immediately.

Grizzly 45

The original story,and from what the Nationals are feeding off.
Best line "A Garda source said that the injured Garda is "very respected" and "is very experianced in using firearms":)

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/07/25/garda-recovering-from-accidental-shooting/?fbclid=IwAR2vUhqYK5GgsvBHC7kubIblu4Y_5UlSXqEJPlg5tAYpIimXzwhfiMdVGJE

Grizzly 45

solarwinds wrote: »

I think the state may have a case there against SIG, I mean selling firearms that can accidentally go off all on there own, there is a serious health and safety risk there.
What could possibly fail in a gun that would cause a round to be chambered, pull back the hammer and pull the trigger ALL on its own without any human involvement that would cause it to fire.
I think what they need here is a young priest and an old priest to get to the bottom of that one.
I'm sure they will convince themselves that this NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE not accidental was a fault in the gun and not anything else.
Obviously all SIGs will need to be recalled immediately.

Ah well it takes the heat off the evil Glock Safe action pistols.With all of their seven safties.:rolleyes:

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

The original story,and from what the Nationals are feeding off.
Best line "A Garda source said that the injured Garda is "very respected" and "is very experianced in using firearms":)

https://www.limerickpost.ie/2019/07/25/garda-recovering-from-accidental-shooting/?fbclid=IwAR2vUhqYK5GgsvBHC7kubIblu4Y_5UlSXqEJPlg5tAYpIimXzwhfiMdVGJE

Not any more, he ain't.

tac foley

solarwinds wrote: »

I think the state may have a case there against SIG, I mean selling firearms that can accidentally go off all on there own, there is a serious health and safety risk there.
What could possibly fail in a gun that would cause a round to be chambered, pull back the hammer and pull the trigger ALL on its own without any human involvement that would cause it to fire.
I think what they need here is a young priest and an old priest to get to the bottom of that one.
I'm sure they will convince themselves that this NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE not accidental was a fault in the gun and not anything else.
Obviously all SIGs will need to be recalled immediately.

I thinks that Fathers Ted and Dougal would soon solve THIS little conundrum....

Robotack

Cass wrote: »

I understand that, but An Gardai, iirc, use the standard model P226 (for those using the Sig) which has the feature.

My Godfather used to be in Serious Crime and this was his service weapon.

Wrong.. Garda Sigs are DAO, with the exception of a little few double / singles in certain units

Grizzly 45

Well,I can tell you that the Limerick ASU use single action.Last time I saw one was about four months ago on one of them.So unless they changed them recently and this instructor was unfammilar with it???

Brontosaurus

Sounds like he went to decock it like an old revolver by pulling the trigger and holding the hammer while pointing it at his foot, or the decocker magically failed and went off while pointing it at his own foot...

Also like how the shooting/accident/ND was the fault of the firearm and not the eejit behind it, typical.

solarwinds

Just like the boot door failing on a high spec garda car causing the loss of an automatic weapon all on its own.
I wonder what the car manufacturer is doing to rectify this massive design flaw after the AGS highlighted and complained to them about it.

Robotack

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Well,I can tell you that the Limerick ASU use single action.Last time I saw one was about four months ago on one of them.So unless they changed them recently and this instructor was unfammilar with it???

How could you see it? Was it out of the holster?

Atlantic Dawn

solarwinds wrote: »

Just like the boot door failing on a high spec garda car causing the loss of an automatic weapon all on its own.
I wonder what the car manufacturer is doing to rectify this massive design flaw after the AGS highlighted and complained to them about it.

Doesn't seem to be another case of it 'failing' anywhere else?

Grizzly 45

Robotack wrote: »

How could you see it? Was it out of the holster?

By standing close to the Garda in a que and observing an exposed large hammer on said firearm in holster right hand side.:P

Robotack

Hammer is not bobbed on AGS SIGs. They are DAO, not not DAK. Plus the issued holster covers the hammer. But I guess he could have had a different holster. But the only way to be sure is to see the LHS of the frame for a decking lever.

Robotack

The amount of know alls with options on here really makes me laugh though. Not referring to everyone, just the clowns with the piggy type comments... Hiding behind user names. I wonder if they'd be so vocal when they're applying for their gun licences. There's idiots in every job and the guards is obviously no exception, but accidents happen in every job.... Tell ya what, if any of you who have such strong opinions can tell me you've every carried a loaded firearm in the service of your respective country or community, then you get an opinion.

solarwinds

Robotack wrote: »

The amount of know alls with options on here really makes me laugh though. Not referring to everyone, just the clowns with the piggy type comments... Hiding behind user names. I wonder if they'd be so vocal when they're applying for their gun licences. There's idiots in every job and the guards is obviously no exception, but accidents happen in every job.... Tell ya what, if any of you who have such strong opinions can tell me you've every carried a loaded firearm in the service of your respective country or community, then you get an opinion.

I guess I could come under the clown you refer to there.
So let me see I am not entitled to an opinion unless I have carried a loaded firearm in service of my country.
Well lucky for me that I have, and another thing it sure as s**t wasn't played with like a toy or an extension of a particular body part. It was treated with the respect anything that can take a life deserved.
So here it goes, I find it laughable that the GS have the neck to refuse me my renewal pre 2009 on the grounds of PUBLIC SAFETY, yet renew all my other large calibre rifles no questions asked. Then for said individuals to take my property without my knowledge and illegally destroy it. So I do apologise if I hold the bible preachers to a higher standard and call them out when in recent times they themselves have been a greater threat to public safety then I every could be.
I find it laughable that these incompetence issues are passed off as equipment failure, typical of Ireland to just cover it up and hold no one to account. They would have more credibility and respect if they called it for what it was and removed said individuals from there positions with a reprimand.
Any one of those instances happen to the likes of us and you can kiss your shooting goodbye, hell a fictitious complaint from an annoyed neighbour is enough to have your guns taken.
So after all that I think everyone and anyone is entitled to an opinion, and not just those people who can identify the make, model and calibre at 20 paces just by the number of serrations on its hammer.
Robo this is not a personal go at you and I do not want to offend but we all have a right to our views.

Robotack

I guess you do.... FCA doesn't count.....

I'm gonna guess that the the guy who shot himself wasn't one of the "individuals" that wronged you.

Who knows, maybe he will be reprimanded and / or removed from his position.... Possibly because he did wrong or possibly because he'll have a limp or possibly because he'll quit the job to spend his compensation

Cass

Robotack wrote: »

Wrong.. Garda Sigs are DAO, with the exception of a little few double / singles in certain units

So they are used, albeit in smaller numbers?

Robotack wrote: »

Hiding behind user names.

Sick and tired of this line whenever someone feels they have been wronged or are simply pissed.

The SITE RULES state you pick a username and NO ONE can demand you give your real name. So no one is "hiding" and anyone demanding a person's real identity will themselves be shown the door, very quickly.

I wonder if they'd be so vocal when they're applying for their gun licences.

I don't know where on the FCA1 it allows you give opinions on incidents like this and as there is no vocal component to applying i fail to see the relevance.

Or are you saying that having an opinion and voicing it here can directly impact your ability to get a firearms license?

............ if any of you who have such strong opinions can tell me you've every carried a loaded firearm in the service of your respective country or community, then you get an opinion.

I don't need to have carried a firearm in my job/duties to be able to think or form an opinion. In the same way as i don't need a Masters degree in economics to discuss the financial state of the country, or be a woman to discuss abortion, or be a politician to have an opinion on current affairs, etc.

When AGS mess up it's someone else's fault. They blamed Audi for the incident last year with GSOC even clearing the two Gardaí involved. Wouldn't be surprised if SIG get blamed for this one. I understand and accept that its rarely one thing that causes a problem, but there is always a human component to incidents and those responsible should be held to account for their actions, but they're not.

However when criminals kill each other or some poor innocent sod then civilian, and licensed, gun owners lose the ability to apply for and own certain types of guns. The incidents have nothing to do with us [the shooting community], yet we're punished. So some of the comments, while i don't agree with them, are as a result of vexation at the double standards.