My €100m BEAM scheme

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

With €10000 depending on it, do you have to rim it so tight.
Especially as the margins are so poor,You're probably gambling losing yor 10000 for an extra margin of a 1000 if you're lucky
A computer program would monitor it if you wanted to be that tight

He is not cutting it tight, he is 5-6 bullocks below the allowance for a full year.

This is not the same as a derogation limit. If you make a mistake up until next year you could export a few loads of slurry. I worked the 170 kg limit on a 50-60 acre farm 4-5K gallons is a an easy way of sorting it.

There is no room for margin on this if you are 1% above you lose the whole lot. That is an extra bullock in a 100. A lot of lads are only drawing 2-3K If you are operating on a net margin of 200/head/year, 5-6 bullocks is 1000-1200 euro, but it probably effects gross margin as well, its unlikely you will spread much less fertlizer, you may end up with an extra 20-30 bales cost you another 500-1K.

In my case it was 400 euro on a 60ish head/year kill. As well because of the drough that year I was hanging cattle as fast as they were anyway fit. I took it as a loan. I can never figure how for smaller payments sub 1K were not excluded from the reduction and tiered after that up to 5% at 10K

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

He is not cutting it tight, he is 5-6 bullocks below the allowance for a full year.

This is not the same as a derogation limit. If you make a mistake up until next year you could export a few loads of slurry. I worked the 170 kg limit on a 50-60 acre farm 4-5K gallons is a an easy way of sorting it.

There is no room for margin on this if you are 1% above you lose the whole lot. That is an extra bullock in a 100. A lot of lads are only drawing 2-3K If you are operating on a net margin of 200/head/year, 5-6 bullocks is 1000-1200 euro, but it probably effects gross margin as well, its unlikely you will spread much less fertlizer, you may end up with an extra 20-30 bales cost you another 500-1K.

In my case it was 400 euro on a 60ish head/year kill. As well because of the drough that year I was hanging cattle as fast as they were anyway fit. I took it as a loan. I can never figure how for smaller payments sub 1K were not excluded from the reduction and tiered after that up to 5% at 10K

I've been working schemes for years and I'd manage this one too if I was bothered and have never used a consultant.
Talking of getting animals away fit is stupid when risking €10000, I'll be selling ewes in august to keep under the limit. Probaly the worst month to sell cull ewes . None of the schemes are compulsory

TCDStudent1

The Agfood calculator hasn't been updated with end of May figures. Any reason for this? I thought it would make sense that these be updated to allow farmers make a more informed decision on whether they are deferring the payment.

coolshannagh28

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

The Agfood calculator hasn't been updated with end of May figures. Any reason for this? I thought it would make sense that these be updated to allow farmers make a more informed decision on whether they are deferring the payment.

As the herd profile database is continually refreshed why wasnt it possible to have a running nitrates total on the database ?

Bass Reeves

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

As the herd profile database is continually refreshed why wasnt it possible to have a running nitrates total on the database ?

It's just s data base. You would need different software to calculate nitrates as all animals have different rating depending on type and age. As well it's only a section of farmers that are in Beam.

coolshannagh28

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's just s data base. You would need different software to calculate nitrates as all animals have different rating depending on type and age. As well it's only a section of farmers that are in Beam.

Nitrates will be a huge issue going forward for all farmers ,I cant imagine it would take a rocket scientist to design software to give farmers an accurate reading particularly as there are financial penalties involved .

Bass Reeves

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Nitrates will be a huge issue going forward for all farmers ,I cant imagine it would take a rocket scientist to design software to give farmers an accurate reading particularly as there are financial penalties involved .

No it wouldn't, but to manage nitrates you need to manage from the start of the year. They are impossible to resolve without serious financial loss if you wait until the last 2-4 months.

For a lot of lads this was there first foray I to nitrates management. It amazing the amount of lads with 20-30 suckler cows who taught that all you had to do was reduce by 1-2 cows. There was a good few who taught that they could sell that cow next week and be under the limit. Most did not(and many still do not) understand that your weanlings, yearlings, culls and bull impact it and there sales date as well

tanko

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No it wouldn't, but to manage nitrates you need to manage from the start of the year. They are impossible to resolve without serious financial loss if you wait until the last 2-4 months.

For a lot of lads this was there first foray I to nitrates management. It amazing the amount of lads with 20-30 suckler cows who taught that all you had to do was reduce by 1-2 cows. There was a good few who taught that they could sell that cow next week and be under the limit. Most did not(and many still do not) understand that your weanlings, yearlings, culls and bull impact it and there sales date as well

Exactly how many lads with 20-30 suckler cows “taught” that all they had to do was reduce by 1-2 cows?

Bass Reeves

tanko wrote: »

Exactly how many lads with 20-30 suckler cows “taught” that all they had to do was reduce by 1-2 cows?

A good F@@king many that I met. Most had never interacted with nitrates and stocking levels before. Sh!t a lot of them cannot fill out there BPS online FFS. If they knew how to calculate it most would not be extending there reference period now.

A good many lads finishing had the same issue as well. Up until now if they had a nitrates issue they just exported a few loads of slurry on paper anyway. They be running around over Christmas normally to export a few thousand gallons to this lad and that lad

charolais0153

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Nitrates will be a huge issue going forward for all farmers ,I cant imagine it would take a rocket scientist to design software to give farmers an accurate reading particularly as there are financial penalties involved .

Theirs no financial penalty only a financial reward. BIG difference

wrangler

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Nitrates will be a huge issue going forward for all farmers ,I cant imagine it would take a rocket scientist to design software to give farmers an accurate reading particularly as there are financial penalties involved .

Does agrinet not have that available already.
We do it on an excel sheet and when we sell/buy it changes when we enter the transaction

coolshannagh28

wrangler wrote: »

Does agrinet not have that available already.
We do it on an excel sheet and when we sell/buy it changes when we enter the transaction

I dont want to be pedantic but the dept and EU are imposing these schemes on farmers and should provide a means to follow nitrates output effectively.

Tomjim

i goT a text from DOA saying I could choose an alternative BEAM reduction period by cob tonight, anyone know how do I make the change on DOA WEBSITE

Cavanjack

Tomjim wrote: »

i goT a text from DOA saying I could choose an alternative BEAM reduction period by cob tonight, anyone know how do I make the change on DOA WEBSITE

Go to beef exceptional aid. And click defer reference period.

tanko

The marts will be packed in the morning.

DukeCaboom

tanko wrote: »

The marts will be packed in the morning.

I actually think alot of lads held onto cattle to wait for the trolly dash on the first of July.

Bass Reeves

tanko wrote: »

The marts will be packed in the morning.

TBH I am not too sure. Nobody will have targeted to hit the 5% spot on 6-8months ago. Many lads may have being in s comfortable position 6-8weejs ago. Because of this many may have being buying cattle over the last month or more

Micey.ie

Nothing up on Agfood Yet about our final Nitrates figures,Infact they haven’t been updated since 30th April so much for keeping us updated every month.

Base price

Farmers will have to wait until August to find out if they have the 5% reduction.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/farmers-must-wait-until-august-to-confirm-5-beam-reduction-632851

TCDStudent1

Base price wrote: »

Farmers will have to wait until August to find out if they have the 5% reduction.
https://www.farmersjournal.ie/farmers-must-wait-until-august-to-confirm-5-beam-reduction-632851

Hard to understand the delay in updating the figures until then.

Bass Reeves

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Hard to understand the delay in updating the figures until then.

It's a fairly complex calculation. As well it may have to be done individually for each farmer. The calculation is mid year to mid year so there system may not run the calculation automatically.

Finally they have had a few hiccups with the calculations already so they will need to make sure the info for it is correct. As well we are in the middle of the holiday season reduced staff will be available to collate the information.

At the end of the day most farmers have the information I. Front of them from updates already received. It cannot be too hard to run off the last two months calculations yourself

Base price

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Hard to understand the delay in updating the figures until then.

I assume a lot has to do with calf registrations of up to 27 days and then the further delay in receiving posted registrations.

tanko

If a farmer imports pig slurry does it affect the beam scheme?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117791612#Comment_117791612

No imports or exports do not effect Beam only stock numbers

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792139#Comment_117792139

Are you sure about that cause you maybe misleading people. Under rule 10.1 the applicant has to reduce the production of bovine nitrogen on your farm by 5% from 1/7/20 to the 30/6/21 vis a vie the reference year of 1/7/18 to the 30/6/19.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795489#Comment_117795489

Bass is right, it’s based on your stock numbers. Import’s, Export’s, renting more land, or any other variable like that, is not used in the calculation. It is solely based on your stock numbers in the reference period verses your stock numbers in the new period. And also as said on here before you can’t just get rid of a few animals on the last day, it’s based on your herd total over the whole 12 months.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795658#Comment_117795658

You too are incorrect - "7.1.1. Reduce the production on the holding of bovine livestock manure nitrogen by 5% for the

period 01 July 2020 to 30 June 2021 as compared with the period 01 July 2018 to 30 June

2019 as recorded on Department systems. Slurry exports are not reckonable as reduction.

(See Annex 3 below for more information on Nitrates reduction)"

https://www.gov.ie/en/service/7cdaed-beef-exceptional-aid-measure-beam/

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795903#Comment_117795903

The key word is ''production'' Base. Imports and exports have no effect on productions. As DBK said neither will renting extra land even though you reduce your N/HA level.

This is purely a production based measure. It takes no accounts if imports or exports

Jjameson

Because of the clusterfuck of a year they chose as a referencence there’s a lot of money going back to the national pot here in the south east. The beast from the east put sheds down, the winter run till mid may. There wasn’t a bale of rushes to be had and a lot of cattle were fed ad lib meal just to get rid. Then the sun shone

and shone and cattle thrived well for 6 weeks. And then the grass stopped growing. The scramble to gather winter forage meant there was no fat cattle replaced with stores.

all in all these guys were back 20 to 40% on a normal stocking average.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795903#Comment_117795903

Please don’t confuse people any more than what they already are on what should be a very simple scheme.

The key word in what you are quoting is “production”.

If you imported slurry it was not produced on your farm. If you exported slurry you did produce it. Therefore exports are not reduced from your total as you produced it on your holding and imports are not added on as they were not produced on your holding. It’s as simple as that.

For anybody reading these last few posts and now getting confused please just contact either the department or your Agri advisor and I can assure you the answer you will be given is that imports and exports are not used in the calculations.