downcow wrote: » I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires. Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one.
The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun. The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire The two things are like day and night 11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that. On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable. If the OO was one tomorrow the 12th would disappear but the 11th night would not be in the slightest effected. Indeed I think it would mushroom to fill the vacuum
downcow wrote: » This civil servant, working for the queen,
got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it.
downcow wrote: » I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires. Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one. The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun. The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire The two things are like day and night 11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that. On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable. If the OO was one tomorrow the 12th would disappear but the 11th night would not be in the slightest effected. Indeed I think it would mushroom to fill the vacuum
The tradition is believed to have started to commemorate the lighting of fires on hilltops in Antrim and Down that helped Williamite forces navigate through the Belfast Lough at night during the Williamite Wars in Ireland.
downcow wrote: » I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires. Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one. The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun. The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire The two things are like day and night 11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that. On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable.
Imreoir2 wrote: » On the face of t it seems absurd, I'm sure the person in question did not object too greatly to the face of the queen being on the money they got in their payout. It seems likely to me that there is some nuance that has not been made public than would cast greater light on this incident. Do you think it would be reasonable for someone to be offended by a sign in Irish at their workplace?
_blaaz wrote: » Yous trying to.claim.that no tricoulers are burnt on july 11th bonfires and want evidence of it occuring Your fooling noone mate,even orange order members i knpw dont trt defend it....no mind try drag people down rabbithole of saying it deosnt happen Your gas craic
downcow wrote: » I think this case, ridiculous as it is, could have serious repercussions for the Irish language plans. This civil servant, working for the queen, got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it. He was paid £10,000 out of court and was consulted on what photo he would like in its place. What does this mean for Irish language signs if they offend people? The law up here says that there should be nothing on display that offends people. If I work in a bar that has fir on the door will I get £10,000 and will it be removed. I think it has opened a can of wormshttps://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/civil-servant-queen-portrait-northern-ireland-lee-hegarty-lord-maginnis-nio-a9002086.html%3famp
downcow wrote: » If you are asking honestly. Yes I would certainly forgo that statue if it meant I wouldn’t have my local town reminding me on every corner that the nationalists are in charge
FrancieBrady wrote: » Maybe the result will be that we get rid of everything that offends. Can we start with this, a statue to a man who was instrumental in bringing the gun back into Irish politics? This is the kind of cul de sac that Unionism keeps disappearing into in their never ending Never Never Never give an inch hideboundness. I would sacrifice Irish roadsigns if it resulted in a shoot themselves in the foot again stunt like in the linked article.
downcow wrote: » Thank you. I genuinely want to engage and learn. My problem with your post , and I quote “on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO”. Now can you give me one single example of this. I have been to the twelfth every year from age 1 to 54 and I have never seen this happen. Now if it is on a massive scale I guess you will easily educate me with a link or two.
firemansam4 wrote: » Let's just bring this back on topic here a bit.... OK I'm directing this post at Downcow. It seems you are trying to make the point that us southerners don't get your culture surrounding the 12th and have got it all wrong. When we make the point that it is disgusting seeing multiple bonfires burning our national flag on this day, you just say that it is just something that goes on both sides of the community. You have posted random isolated examples of where this has happened in the past. But the problem with your argument and something you still have not answered is that on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO and loyalists. There is nothing that comes close to comparing to it. Can you give me one example of where this kind of thing happens in the ROI on the same scale? It is going to be very hard for anyone down this side of the border to have any respect for your culture while this kind of thing happens every year, I just don't see how you could think any different? Try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine how you would feel about it?
citytillidie wrote: » Don't forget the Unionist ministers also don't condone the burning of the flags and even attend such bonfires where they are burned
janfebmar wrote: » And who would pay the 7 billion pounds necessary to translate and print all signs / government publications, etc etc in to Irish as well? Its not as if many use Irish. There is an Irish language page here on boards.ie, last time I looked it was only getting a few posts a month. Maybe Irish speakers never use the internet.
downcow wrote: » Irish language group not only confirming the demand for all road signs in Irish even where they are not wanted, but also agreeing 100% with my marking territory concern. She even compares on putting Irish signs where they are wanted as the same as “painting kerbstones”. These are the false claims I am being accused of. Looks like more stuff needs retracted.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156188117398383&id=91379563382&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F&_rdr
RobMc59 wrote: » I`m backing common sense Odhinn.Would people in Unionist areas be likely to speak Irish?
downcow wrote: » I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote. What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about. It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage
janfebmar wrote: » Once you tell me how many signs there are on roads,streets, areas, outside and inside public buildings, hospitals, on vehicles, how many government publications there are, websites etc etc.
Odhinn wrote: » Please provide a source that states the sum of 7 billion would be required.
janfebmar wrote: » And who would pay the 7 billion pounds necessary to translate and print all signs / government publications, etc etc in to Irish as well?
Odhinn wrote: » To be clear, what SF are after is bi-lingual signs, .
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » Some of them might speak in Ulster Scots, best described as ‘a bit of an accent’.
Odhinn wrote: » Essentially you're backing a unionist veto.
Simon Hoare Chair, Northern Ireland Affairs Committee wrote: It seems to me that there is an incredibly strong and compelling argument about the universality of human rights for citizens of the United Kingdom and to try to move away from that in some way starts to pick away at some of the fabric of Unionism."
