Marches this Saturday

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

what part of "her body, her choice" is causing you difficulty?

The part where the woman's choice becomes the man's responsibility

klaaaz

Deleted User wrote: »

He is responsible for the woman's choice.

Am delighted that you're pro choice believing that a woman has the right to choose!

rireland

A man shouldn't be forced to pay for a kid he doesn't want.

A woman has a choice. If a man doesn't want it, then the decision the woman takes should be in respect on not having a man pay. If she's not able to afford the kid, she can abort it. If she can afford it herself, she can go solo.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

That don't always work.


That was not said.


And have zero say as to whether or not they become a parent.

Half the responsibility with none of the options. Sounds fair.

Half the responsibility with a fraction of the involvement. sounds fair to me.

Deleted User wrote: »

Off the hook. Such flippant terminology for such an important life defining circumstances.

Introduce an intelligent point and i will respond accordingly.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

The part where the woman's choice becomes the man's responsibility

You seem to be forgetting that the woman is responsible for a lot more than the man.

ohnonotgmail

klaaaz wrote: »

Am delighted that you're pro choice believing that a woman has the right to choose!

It really is the stupidest ant-abortion argument i have ever seen. They seem now to want to punish women who dont have abortions. it is all quite bizarre.

FeirmeoirtTed

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what part of "her body, her choice" is causing you difficulty?

Avoid the questions and splash out a catchphrase excellent argument.
Nothing about abortion is straight forward or fair for the woman for the man or for the baby that's my point its not black and white and never will be. I have great sympathy for women and men who find themselves having to make a decision like that. I have greater sympathy for the unborn child.That doesn't make me a religious nut or anti women I have a wife, a newborn daughter and sisters.

ohnonotgmail

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Avoid the questions and splash out a catchphrase excellent argument.
Nothing about abortion is straight forward or fair for the woman for the man or for the baby that's my point its not black and white and never will be. I have great sympathy for women and men who find themselves having to make a decision like that. I have greater sympathy for the unborn child.That doesn't make me a religious nut or anti women I have a wife, a newborn daughter and sisters.

out of the mother, father and fetus the woman is by far the most important. Hence "her body, her choice". It is not a glib catchphrase. it is the basis for all decisions regarding the pregnancy.

FeirmeoirtTed

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

out of the mother, father and fetus the woman is by far the most important. Hence "her body, her choice". It is not a glib catchphrase. it is the basis for all decisions regarding the pregnancy.

Can you see how not wanting a foetus in the womb to die because a man and a women don't want them seems like an admirable cause as a society to try to defend?

ohnonotgmail

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Can you see how not wanting a foetus in the womb to die because a man and a women don't want them seems like an admirable cause as a society to try to defend?

not when it goes against the wishes of the woman i dont. I see it as just an attempt to control.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

It really is the stupidest ant-abortion argument i have ever seen. They seem now to want to punish women who dont have abortions. it is all quite bizarre.

You are all about the white knighting today. Nobody is looking to "punish" women.

Women have the right to choose. If a woman gets pregnant after a consensual one night stand, nobody can force a woman to be a mother (and rightly so), yet the man can be forced to become a father.

If you think that's fair, then that's on you. I won't try to convince you any further.

But keep dismissing valid concerns as stupid if it makes you feel superior.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

You are all about the white knighting today. Nobody is looking to "punish" women.

Women have the right to choose. If a woman gets pregnant after a consensual one night stand, nobody can force a woman to be a mother (and rightly so), yet the man can be forced to become a father.

If you think that's fair, then that's on you. I won't try to convince you any further.

But keep dismissing valid concerns as stupid if it makes you feel superior.

and the same situation existed before the 8th has repealed. How has repealing the 8th made it worse?

FeirmeoirtTed

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

not when it goes against the wishes of the woman i dont. I see it as just an attempt to control.

Control them how?

ohnonotgmail

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Control them how?

spare me the feigned ignorance.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

and the same situation existed before the 8th has repealed. How has repealing the 8th made it worse?

This conversation started because you said that abortion was not a nuanced matter. I said it was and brought up this scenario as it i don't believe it is cut and dry or fair in circumstances like this.

You are attempting to paint it as if I said that this was a reason we shouldn't have repealed the eighth.

I never said that. I said the abortion debate is nuanced.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

This conversation started because you said that abortion was not a nuanced matter. I said it was and brought up this scenario as it i don't believe it is cut and dry or fair in circumstances like this.

You are attempting to paint it as if I said that this was a reason we shouldn't have repealed the eighth.

I never said that. I said the abortion debate is nuanced.

Your question is nothing to do with the abortion debate.

FeirmeoirtTed

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

spare me the feigned ignorance.

It's possible that people can believe that abortion is morally wrong and still love and respect women.
In fact it's possible that women themselves can be pro-life.
It's also possible that abortion is right in certain circumstances, I can acknowledge that at least I'm just trying to flesh out what circumstances they are and how as a responsible adult who knows actions have consequences I would be able to support a decision which ended another life, like i said its not black and white and if it ever becomes that way then I think we as a society have lost our way.

ohnonotgmail

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

It's possible that people can believe that abortion is morally wrong and still love and respect women.
In fact it's possible that women themselves can be pro-life.
It's also possible that abortion is right in certain circumstances, I can acknowledge that at least I'm just trying to flesh out what circumstances they are and how as a responsible adult who knows actions have consequences I would be able to support a decision which ended another life, like i said its not black and white and if it ever becomes that way then I think we as a society have lost our way.

you really are a day late and a dollar short.

martingriff

FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »

Great question.
Let's flip it do you think men should be involved in the decision to have an abortion??
I mean after all the woman knew the risk like the man did in having sex?
And what about the poor child??

If I was in a relationship and she decided to have an abortion I would expect she would have the love for me to actually come to me a tell me. While I agree if she wants it I can not stop her if I found out afterwards my trust and our r r relationship would be over

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

Your question is nothing to do with the abortion debate.

ohnonotgmail wrote:

you really are a day late and a dollar short.

It is. I say that abortion is a very emotional and nuanced decision.

You disagree.

No need to be a prick.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

It is. I say that abortion is a very emotional and nuanced decision.

You disagree.

No need to be a prick.

explain to me how it is relevant given given that the same situation regarding the father paying child support exists whether abortion is allowed or not.

Thrashssacre

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

explain to me how it is relevant given given that the same situation regarding the father paying child support exists whether abortion is allowed or not.

The issue is that it’s a woman and woman’s only right to choose an ex girlfriend of mine had an abortion which i was completely against but all I got from people was “well that’s her decision sure what can you do” so essentially my child was murdered and I Hadn’t an ounce of a say in it. It was absolutely heartbreaking and certainly ruined any chance of the relationship continuing.

There’s some nuance for you which I’m sure you’ll fob of for some reason or another. Abortion is not a black and white issue and anyone who paints it is a moron or has some kind of political motive for doing so.

ohnonotgmail

Thrashssacre wrote: »

The issue is that it’s a woman and woman’s only right to choose an ex girlfriend of mine had an abortion which i was completely against but all I got from people was “well that’s her decision sure what can you do” so essentially my child was murdered and I Hadn’t an ounce of a say in it. It was absolutely heartbreaking and certainly ruined any chance of the relationship continuing.

There’s some nuance for you which I’m sure you’ll fob of for some reason or another. Abortion is not a black and white issue and anyone who paints it is a moron or has some kind of political motive for doing so.

It is very easy to say she should keep the baby when you are not the one carrying it for nine months. "her body, her choice". it really is that simple. She clearly didnt want to have a kid with you so it probably wasnt going to last anyway.

Thrashssacre

Thrashssacre wrote:

The issue is that it’s a woman and woman’s only right to choose an ex girlfriend of mine had an abortion which i was completely against but all I got from people was “well that’s her decision sure what can you do†so essentially my child was murdered and I Hadn’t an ounce of a say in it. It was absolutely heartbreaking and certainly ruined any chance of the relationship continuing.

Sorry about that buddy. I've been in that position myself twice. It's absolutely heartbreaking. But sure, if you didn't want to be exposed to that, you should have not had sex. That's the mentality of the saviours of the fairer sex.

In their eyes, men who don't want to be a parent are dead beat dads who should man up and men who do want to be dads are controlling freaks who shouldn't tell a woman what to do.

Even when they have no choice they are wrong. It's no wonder young men suffer more from depression and suicidal tendencies

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote:

it really is that simple. She clearly didnt want to have a kid with you so it probably wasnt going to last anyway.

You heartless prick. Regardless of whether it would last or not, that was still his child. The relationship may not have lasted but his child would have.

That is disgusting.

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry about that buddy. I've been in that position myself twice. It's absolutely heartbreaking. But sure, if you didn't want to be exposed to that, you should have not had sex. That's the mentality of the saviours of the fairer sex.

In their eyes, men who don't want to be a parent are dead beat dads who should man up and men who do want to be dads are controlling freaks who shouldn't tell a woman what to do.

Even when they have no choice they are wrong. It's no wonder young men suffer more from depression and suicidal tendencies

i'd love to know what thread you have been reading.

Thrashssacre

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is very easy to say she should keep the baby when you are not the one carrying it for nine months. "her body, her choice". it really is that simple. She clearly didnt want to have a kid with you so it probably wasnt going to last anyway.

She didn’t want to have a child with anyone, but fine to sleep with guys and not have any kind of contraception. It’s just a lack of responsibility and morals. Nothing to do with choice.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry about that buddy. I've been in that position myself twice. It's absolutely heartbreaking. But sure, if you didn't want to be exposed to that, you should have not had sex. That's the mentality of the saviours of the fairer sex.

In their eyes, men who don't want to be a parent are dead beat dads who should man up and men who do want to be dads are controlling freaks who shouldn't tell a woman what to do.

Even when they have no choice they are wrong. It's no wonder young men suffer more from depression and suicidal tendencies

[img]https://www.hse.ie/images_upload/portal/eng/services/news/images/think logo.jpg[/img]

Personal responsibility?

Thrashssacre wrote: »

She didn’t want to have a child with anyone, but fine to sleep with guys and not have any kind of contraception. It’s just a lack of responsibility and morals. Nothing to do with choice.

And why should you not use contraception?

ohnonotgmail

Thrashssacre wrote: »

She didn’t want to have a child with anyone, but fine to sleep with guys and not have any kind of contraception. It’s just a lack of responsibility and morals. Nothing to do with choice.

everything to do with choice. she wanted to sleep with people without protection. As did you btw. Presumably she knew what the consequences of that might be. When she did get pregnant she chose to have an abortion.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote:

Personal responsibility?

pjohnson wrote:

And why should you not use contraception?

You are aware that contraception doesn't work 100% of the time?